Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 6-2 | Happy St. Patrick's Day I guess

[RLF]

Basic Defense isn't hard, being good at it is. The Leafs don't need to be good at it, they just need to not be terrible. That basic level comes from coaching and the system the players are told to play and how they are taught, that is the issue. If the Leafs were getting scored on because they are continually out muscled and losing 1on1 battles, yea you can blame the players. That isn't what is happening though, nobody is in the right positions to even get beat and it happens to every single line and pairing.

I am not letting Babcock off the hook here. But,he constantly says we aren't making the right reads or in good position. We do lose a lot of 1 on 1 battles in our own end. Any system is only as good as how the players execute it and if they have the desire. We have a team that is not commited to team defense. Maybe a new voice could get them to commit, but it isn't a given.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

Sens Goals: Feel free to explain these to me....

#1. Somehow a 4 on 3 in Leafs favour turned into a 4 on 2 in the Sens favour ( bad line change, Marner does a fly by blowing the zone or to the bench, Rielly's defense partner is nowhere to be seen...Tavares was the only forward back with him.) Codi Ceci, totally uncovered, walks in and snipes an Art Ross candidate style top corner bullet.

#2. Leafs hemmed in there own zone, point shot gets through Sparks lets out a 15 foot rebound, instead of clearing the puck or taking the man out with a body check, Kadri stick checks (get used to this term) Gibbons who falls on his own but hacks a falling backhand through the glorious open hole of Sparks. Hainsey glides in from the point for some reason to witness the carnage, while Rielly just stood in front of Sparks waving his stick, apparently celebrating the cheap front row seat he has to the action on the ice.

#3. Bad pinch at Sens blueline leaves Holl going nowhere quickly on the apparent hamster wheel that magically appeared under his legs, the ensuing 3 on 1 leaves Rielly on his own to do the stick check thing, while Kadri, Marleau and Brown get their aerobic workout for the night watching the rear ends of the Sens pounce on a defenceless Sparks...oh the shot? another Art Ross quality snipe by Paajarvi who somehow has disappeared for 8 years until tonight.

#4. see number #3 rinse repeat, this time Holl brings up the rear again while Marincin practices his stick checking skills on the air. Paajarvi goes bar and in to add to his votes for art ross for award for goals in different uniforms that lead to false hope for the next decade.

#5 Hey, Leafs have all the bodies back this time, good shape right? Well Sparks sees a point shot coming and decides to leave to crease to save it from hitting the boards apparently. Puck rebounds out to the opposite side of the net and 11 million dollar man Matthews attempts a stick check, leaves his man wide open for an easy tap-in to a yawning cage for Duclair ($650,000). (sorry about the salary reference..but it seems like a relevant point for these two teams on this night)

#6. 2 on 1 for the Sens against Matthews line, Holl is lone man back. That's probably all you need to know, except Sparks saves the shot, but leaves a juicy rebound out. Surely someone is hustling back to break up the play? Oh Nylander, god bless him and his speed...yes he is there just in time for a stick check, but wait, there's Hainsey third man back...stick check...goal.

I had to review these goals to see why we sucked so badly. Holl and Haisey had abysmal nights, somehow found themselves on the ice together a few times. Everyone was guilty of simple stick checks where if you take the man out with a simple body check, they don't become available as easily. Beaten to the puck, odd man rushes everywhere. Sparks horrid rebound control and losing his net also contributed on 3 goals.

OK feel a little better now.

Body checking is physicality. Physicality is aggression. Aggression is face punching. Face punching triggers me.

 

[Bomber0104]

You need to do some research. Its not just opinions.

I've researched all the stats out there.

Never once have I come across one which describes any sort of coaching measure in isolation.

Maybe bench minor penalties..

 

[BLONG7]

Babcock hasn’t been the best coach in the league for a while, he got schooled last spring by the Bruins coach, Cooper and Trotz IMO are better.

Look when you have had crap anything looks better but make no mistake about it Babcock has his shortcomings.

Good coach, but very much overrated by the media...

The Leafs D has been a problem since he has arrived...that's not on him.

 

[Mess]

After careful analysis this is what somebody posted on the Hockey Night in Canada twitter account as to what went wrong with this game.



It seemed like a reasonable argument.

 

[WilliamNylander]

I've researched all the stats out there.

Never once have I come across one which describes any sort of coaching measure in isolation.

Maybe bench minor penalties..

How about this one?

His teams are always worse at home than on the road because of his line matching. Same problem in DET with those stacked teams too.

 

[DopeyFish]

After careful analysis this is what somebody posted on the Hockey Night in Canada twitter account as to what went wrong with this game.



It seemed like a reasonable argument.

Every time I saw an odd man rush yesterday I made it a point to see which d-man was caught. Take a guess who it was pretty much every time? (Hint: was not a pylon)

 

[Bomber0104]

How about this one?

His teams are always worse at home than on the road because of his line matching. Same problem in DET with those stacked teams too.

Are you actually serious?

Every team has a worse record away than at home.

I don't even need to check that.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

Are you actually serious?

Every team has a worse record away than at home.

I don't even need to check that.

You have it backwards. The Leafs are worse at home like the OP said.

 

[Nalens Oga]

Anyone have the shot map for our shots last night? My feeling is that through the first 50 minutes, we had almost no shots from the high slot and a bunch from the perimeter and right in front of the net trying to jam/walk it in.

Every time I saw an odd man rush yesterday I made it a point to see which d-man was caught. Take a guess who it was pretty much every time? (Hint: was not a pylon)

He seems more focused on getting goals than defending. I had him as a Norris candidate in mid-season but guy's trying too hard offensively and he can't afford to, get back and friggin defend first we're not the Sharks.

 

[hockeyes]

We've seen some bad positioning and coverage, no doubt.

You believe Babcock instructs our players to stand around, get caught flat-footed, and puck watch? Does he tell our defence to both chase a guy into a corner leaving a man out front?

Just trying to get a read on where you stand between the whole coaching vs. player execution thing...

Someone is telling them where to be and how to react to the play, you can take that however you want. Individual mistakes and breakdowns happen to every team. The purpose of having a system is to minimize the frequency and impact. If a system continuously produces the same poor results then it's not a very good system.

 

[Jorge Garcia]

True.
And that's on the team.
But it doesnt change the fact that hes normally good for 2 back-breakers per game.
Christ, last night he moved out of the net to stop a shot that was going 3 ft wide and the rebound came right out to a Sens player with an open net.
Hes like a MORE chaotic goaltender than Riemer

I was going to mention that in a longer post as the only really bad goal he gave up, but I opted for brevity.

 

[WilliamNylander]

Are you actually serious?

Every team has a worse record away than at home.

I don't even need to check that.

Read it again

 

[Bomber0104]

You have it backwards. The Leafs are worse at home like the OP said.

By a few loser points? That's a negligible difference.

And to then pin that all on "line matching" again, is simply an opinion.

Why would our players perform better when the other coach chooses who to ice against them?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Yes, I am going to RANT.

The closer to the playoffs you get, the more the compete picks up. It's not rocket science here what ails this team. It is not the coach/coaches/management on his/their own. It is a combination where most of the problem is with the players. You cannot force compete. That comes from within.
We have a passive team who play a passive game and that is how the players want to play.

Watching guys have a good time out there with the opponent players drives me nuts. Yes, I noticed this and it bothered me long before Hrudy brought it up. It shows a mindset and the mindset is not one of "I want to win more than anything." This is the biggest problem. We are proof of will over skill and not in a good way. We got beat by an AHL team because their will to get a job next year was greater than our guys will to win a game.

I have wrote before how it looks like our players just sulk. There is no getting angry about losing or being scored on. They just sulk. That is not on the coach. Hate to pick on the guy because the skill is high end, but Nylander is a great example of what ails us. He can do plays like the other day, but usually he won`t. When people were claiming he was playing great because certain ADV stats said so and it was just a matter of time til he produces, while the rest of us who said he was not competing and that was the reason for lack of production...well, he is the perfect example of tons of skill, but not much will. We have way too many passengers and not enough drivers.

I don`t agree with everything Babcock does, but you can`t force guys to engage physically without being willing to sit them if they don`t. Many would go nuts and call for his head if he sat Willy or Austin or etc. They would call him an idiot. You don`t take away icetime, you don`t have a lot of effect on a players play. That said, we have a team that does not want to play a style the coach wants them to. Thing is, what type of style could we play that will win that does not require compete or physical play to an extent? There isn`t one.

So this is on the players and you also got to put this on the GM as well at this point. I honestly think the Nylander holdout had an impact. He was given the red carpet to come back by GM and coach. Thrown right in the lineup, to the top line like nothing happened. He wasn`t prepared well to come back. He looked awful at the start. He never had to sit no matter how bad he looked. No conditioning stint. Just kept him in the lineup.What it showed the payers was...if you have the skill, you get whatever you want. Compete and being ready to go is not as important.

As much as players who work hard can have effect on others, so can too many who rely on skill, stick checks etc have an effect on others. Some want Babcock to play our top skill guys even more. Why? So he can send a greater message that hard work and playing physical doesn't matter as long as you can dangle and skate. Show the team he believes in playing a passive pond hockey track meet. Yea, that would help.

This team lacks heart right now. It's that simple. They want to play shinny. They want to dangle and get on the highlight reel. They want to make friends with their opponent. For all that may laugh at this. Yes, we need more guys with the engine and heart of a guys like Hyman. Babcock is not wrong on that. I actually feel sorry for Babcock sometimes or any coach that would be behind the bench with this team. All that talent and the one thing he can't teach, heart, doesn't seem to exist. So much for having pride in wearing the Maple Leaf.

There's a lot in here that's plain not true. Sorry.

 

[Beaumaris]

Burn those St Pats jerseys and never speak of them again.

Exactly,Ugly Rags.

 

[Mess]

Every time I saw an odd man rush yesterday I made it a point to see which d-man was caught. Take a guess who it was pretty much every time? (Hint: was not a pylon)

Rielly scored a goal so that disqualifies him from being a pylon in this one, as an inanimate object can't shoot a puck into a net.

However the pairing of Rielly -- Hainsey was a -3 each on the night so your assessment is also correct, as to what went wrong.

Justin Holl played just 14 minutes TOI/g in this one on the 3rd pairing, under sheltered QofC minutes and against the 31st overall team in the NHL, and managed to be a -4 on the night.. That is the prototypical definition of a pylon.

 

[RLF]

There's a lot in here that's plain not true. Sorry.

So what is the truth then?

 

[Bomber0104]

Someone is telling them where to be and how to react to the play, you can take that however you want. Individual mistakes and breakdowns happen to every team. The purpose of having a system is to minimize the frequency and impact. If a system continuously produces the same poor results then it's not a very good system.

When decisions have to be made split-second, you actually believe a hockey player is going to hearken back to what the coach told them at practice on Friday and then make his move?

Have you ever played hockey?

 

[Beaumaris]

Are you actually serious?

Every team has a worse record away than at home.

I don't even need to check that.

Times are a’changing bud.Too much pressure playing at home nowadays.

 

[Not My Tempo]

Zaitsev didn’t play this way before he came to the NHL. He doesn’t play this way in international games. What he the coaching staff done to him? You can see the same thing starting to happen with Muzzin.

 

[Ulysses31]

dont know what the holl is wrong with leafs D, zaits for sure

 

[WilliamNylander]

By a few loser points? That's a negligible difference.

And to then pin that all on "line matching" again, is simply an opinion.

Why would our players perform better when the other coach chooses who to ice against them?

The backtracking is hilarious.

He is one of the worst home coaches in the league throughout his entire career. Its not one year, its a decade long pattern. Babcock makes the team worse with strict line matching.

You are the one with no facts and all opinion.

 

[supermann_98]

Matthews -6.
Stamkos -2
Hainsey +30

Damn man that's a ride awakening

 

[DopeyFish]

Rielly scored a goal so that disqualifies him from being a pylon in this one, as an inanimate object can't shoot a puck into a net.

However the pairing of Rielly -- Hainsey was a -3 each on the night so your assessment is also correct, as to what went wrong.

Justin Holl played just 14 minutes TOI/g in this one on the 3rd pairing, under sheltered QofC minutes and against the 31st overall team in the NHL, and managed to be a -4 on the night.. That is the prototypical definition of a pylon.

I know one of those goals against was a joint effort by Holl and Rielly. Almost died laughing. Doctors have convened overnight and told me that if it happens again, I may not survive... So I told my mom and she got scared and said "you're moving with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air". So I said fine and i whistled for a cab and when it came near the license plate said 'Fresh' and had dice in the mirror. If anything I could say that this cab was rare but I thought forget it, yo home to Bel Air.