Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 4-1

[Arzak]

That was likely a preview of the Leafs first round
Likely open on the road and likely will mirror Monday nights effort


Brodie and lilligren just got barbecued by the Bruins

While a meaningless game, it's telling that one team took it as free playoff preparation against a potential opponent.

So much you can take from a game like that. Or not. Let's hope everyone is as oblivious as we are! Or Keefe playing 4D chess.

"Suck on purpose playing Bruins throughout the regular season, they won't see it coming in the postseason" Teflon Don Keefe

 

[banks]

I can quantify it somewhat. Boston is a no nonsense organization. They traded Seguin ffs.

Then they traded for Hall, signed him cheap (one year removed from Hart season); then traded Hall b/c he didn't fit even after Hall signed cheap in hopes of remaining in Boston.

The only "constant" in Boston; i.e. those who remain are the ones that put will above skill. They have skilled players but their skilled players are often the most hardworking players out there.

Chara/Bergeron set the example that others are now following. Good thing Boston completely effed up on the 2015 draft passing on Barzal, Connor, Chabot ; else they would be a freakin dynasty.

Boston's luck regarding goalies is something I am not sure how to quantify though.

I think you missed the joke. The "unquantifiable" part is the SV% being leaps and bounds better than everyone else. It's goaltending. That's the difference.

Good goaltending covers a multitude of shortcomings.

 

[rumman]

I can quantify it somewhat. Boston is a no nonsense organization. They traded Seguin ffs.

Then they traded for Hall, signed him cheap (one year removed from Hart season); then traded Hall b/c he didn't fit even after Hall signed cheap in hopes of remaining in Boston.

The only "constant" in Boston; i.e. those who remain are the ones that put will above skill. They have skilled players but their skilled players are often the most hardworking players out there.

Chara/Bergeron set the example that others are now following. Good thing Boston completely effed up on the 2015 draft passing on Barzal, Connor, Chabot ; else they would be a freakin dynasty.

Boston's luck regarding goalies is something I am not sure how to quantify though.

dumped Thorton and Kessel too, no I in team............

 

[Clark4Ever]

They showed up, Swayman was near perfect, and our compete level was not up to par.

 

[Gabriel426]

Can the guys just come out and say, we are in Win or Bust era instead of kept saying, it was a good lesson….

 

[PROUD PAPA]

Can the guys just come out and say, we are in Win or Bust era instead of kept saying, it was a good lesson….

They'd choke to death on those words.

 

[Al14]

The results of this game tells me that it's time for a BLOCKBUSTER Leafs trade !!!

Shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic HAS NOT made a difference to this team.

It's time for meaningful personnel changes from top management on down to the on-ice product !!!

JMHO.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Now what happens when the opposing team figures out that you will literally almost never shoot the puck from the point?
They will adjust their strategy and be able to potentially exploit you knowing this.So usually they would run a defensive setup where they have balanced pressure but now that they can subtract this one area of shot, they can now deploy pressure towards the more dangerous scoring threats without the fear of getting burned.
For us that means more defensive pressure is going to be pushed towards Matthews/Marner/Nylander, resulting in less time and space to make magic happen.
Maybe point shots are overrated but I don't think that means you should just totally stop taking them all together or that having someone with a heavy shot isn't still a big positive.

But we do shoot the puck from the point. We just don't take as many massive slappers that are more likely to injure somebody or miss the net. The type of shot doesn't change the necessity of defending that area of the ice. We have players that can take advantage of that space if it's given to them and exploit them right back. A heavy slapshot can be used to a strategic advantage, but so can many other player qualities that seem to too often get ignored if they're not about big burly men doing big power things with their muscles grr.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

The results of this game tells me that it's time for a BLOCKBUSTER Leafs trade !!!

Shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic HAS NOT made a difference to this team.

It's time for meaningful personnel changes from top management on down to the on-ice product !!!

JMHO.

Even if they wanted to make a major trade they have zero flexibility with which to do it.

 

[myleafs]

Would you consider?

Domi Matthews Marner
(pick your order, I think the next two lines are fairly = in 5x5 toi.)
McMann Tavares Jarnkrok
Bert Holmberg Willy
Knies Kamph Reaves

L #1: becomes, perhaps outside of Willy, the most dangerous combination the team can offer.
L#2/3: JT's wears them down, Willy's is a mix of everything, mucker/D/skill.
L #4: With Holmberg they've been great. Can Knies hold down the fort? Adds skill vs level.

I like it for the most part.....I dont see the leafs putting Knies on the 4th line though and I dont think I want to see him there either. I dont want to mess with what has been working and really the only line that needs some more responsibility is Domi Willy Bert so not sure what to do about that while keeping the other lines that have been working the same. Maybe a Henrique as a Domi replacement?.

I know that none of the players on that line are known for their defensive prowess but is it possible for Keefe and assistants to sit these 3 guys down and really drive it into their skulls that they need to be much more aware of the defensive details? If they could tighten it up I think the rest (offense) would take care of itself.

 

[myleafs]

Only saying it was a back and forth game, which it was and which all the games they played have been.

Folks are making it seem like shots were 40-20 and the Leafs were run over or something and then we all get to be bridge jumpers in a PGT.




I'd like to add another dman for sure. It's not a good thing that Marner was used as a D. Health is actually a bigger worry for me and the decimated dcore the early part of the year also coincided with the worst Leaf team game.

Since December 23rd, the Leafs have allowed the fewest shots in the league 5v5 (3rd all situations) and is top 10 for all other 5v5 defensive numbers across the board. The Leafs have also beat a ton of good teams over that stretch. I don't mind talking about it but using Button as any kind of authority on anything just triggers me.

They just got Boosh in a yrade and Lily back from injury and Woll back from injury so let not start making huge pronouncements about a team that's been playing well, including defensively dealing with adversity.

Oh no, they lost....dropping to 13-4 on this run with wins against the Avs, Knights, Jets×2, Stars and Rangers.

They won't be able to beat any good team.......

Except you didnt say it was a back and forth game...you said for the most part the leafs out hustled and hit and played a better board game than the bruins....which is fine if its your opinion. I certainly do not feel the same.

I get it you dont like Button but what about what he was saying? It wasnt far fetched...most in here feel the same about our d. and him feeling that the leafs cant win the big one with this defense which pretty much everyone agrees

I do agree that there are some hot takes in here that are overly negative considering how well the leafs have been playing the last month. It was one game, and all teams lose but in saying that, there were moments that showed some of our weaknesses and old bad habits imo. Lets see how they rebound against the Bruins on Thurs. How they start and play that game will show us something... one way or the other.

 

[weems]

But we do shoot the puck from the point. We just don't take as many massive slappers that are more likely to injure somebody or miss the net. The type of shot doesn't change the necessity of defending that area of the ice. We have players that can take advantage of that space if it's given to them and exploit them right back. A heavy slapshot can be used to a strategic advantage, but so can many other player qualities that seem to too often get ignored if they're not about big burly men doing big power things with their muscles grr.

Looking at NHL edge stats and we do shoot it less from the blueline area than many other top teams.

Toronto - 354
Colorado - 504
Carolina - 470
TB - 391
EDM - 444
NYR - 442
Vegas - 459
BOS - 373
Vancouver - 394

 

[Racer88]

Our best is pretty dam good but when the games get tough or important our best goes missing

 

[Al14]

Even if they wanted to make a major trade they have zero flexibility with which to do it.

That's simply not true.

Where there is a will, there is always a way to get things done.

A huge trade is possible if you have the motivation to get things done. It will take a lot of negotiations, and a tonne of hard work. It might also require the cooperation of several teams to get things done.

I think our Leafs need a sound goaltender and one more top 4 defense man. A PK forward is needed as well.

I'd be up for a deal with Calgary to somehow acquire Markstrom and Weegar. We might need to lose Samsonov and/or Woll along with a 1st rounder. Some minor adds can be thrown into the deal for some salary retention as necessary.

Maybe Treliving has targeted another team and other players. It might have to be an off season deal too, however it would be wise to try to improve our odds going into the playoffs.

We've seen that doing minor upgrades and acquisitions every season has not brought any difference for our Leafs ability to compete.

It's time to GO BIG, or go home with your tail between your legs. I myself have seen enough of going home with their tails between their legs. Respect in the hand shake line is for losers !!!

 

[CuuuJooo]

They were due a stinker. And boy, did they deliver!

Neither team (or player) would ever go for it, but a Marner-McAvoy swap would give the Leafs exactly what they need on the back end. IMHO, of course.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Looking at NHL edge stats and we do shoot it less from the blueline area than many other top teams.

Toronto - 354
Colorado - 504
Carolina - 470
TB - 391
EDM - 444
NYR - 442
Vegas - 459
BOS - 373
Vancouver - 394

354 times doesn't seem like "literally almost never".
So Boston, our likely first round opponent, takes one extra longe range shot every 8 games.
I fail to see the big issue.

 

[weems]

354 times doesn't seem like "literally almost never".
So Boston, our likely first round opponent, takes one extra longe range shot every 8 games.
I fail to see the big issue.

I mean if you look at last years numbers it's very interesting.

2022/2023

Toronto 491
Colorado 663
Florida 758
Vegas 630
Boston 574

Just saying maybe we should be throwing the puck at the net a little more from the blueline.

 

[Racer88]

That's simply not true.

Where there is a will, there is always a way to get things done.

A huge trade is possible if you have the motivation to get things done. It will take a lot of negotiations, and a tonne of hard work. It might also require the cooperation of several teams to get things done.

I think our Leafs need a sound goaltender and one more top 4 defense man. A PK forward is needed as well.

I'd be up for a deal with Calgary to somehow acquire Markstrom and Weegar. We might need to lose Samsonov and/or Woll along with a 1st rounder. Some minor adds can be thrown into the deal for some salary retention as necessary.

Maybe Treliving has targeted another team and other players. It might have to be an off season deal too, however it would be wise to try to improve our odds going into the playoffs.

We've seen that doing minor upgrades and acquisitions every season has not brought any difference for our Leafs ability to compete.

It's time to GO BIG, or go home with your tail between your legs. I myself have seen enough of going home with their tails between their legs. Respect in the hand shake line is for losers !!!

They simply do not have the Will to make a major reconstruction of this team. Shanny and Dubas were paralyzed by fear and we see them run the same crap core back year after year

 

[Dekes For Days]

I mean if you look at last years numbers it's very interesting.

2022/2023

Toronto 491
Colorado 663
Florida 758
Vegas 630
Boston 574

Just saying maybe we should be throwing the puck at the net a little more from the blueline.

What do you find interesting? Are these interesting?

Pittsburgh 718
NYI 668
Calgary 744
Ottawa 635
Anaheim 575

Since the beginning of last season, we're the 3rd best offensive team, and Boston (with the 2nd least long range shots of those listed) is the only one of these above us at 2nd.
Maybe some of those teams should be throwing the puck at the net a little less from the blueline.

 

[weems]

What do you find interesting? Are these interesting?

Pittsburgh 718
NYI 668
Calgary 744
Ottawa 635
Anaheim 575

Since the beginning of last season, we're the 3rd best offensive team, and Boston (with the 2nd least long range shots of those listed) is the only one of these above us at 2nd.
Maybe some of those teams should be throwing the puck at the net a little less from the blueline.

Maybe we'd be the best if we became more versatile or maybe it'd translate into better postseason scoring.

Just find it interesting that the point shot is overrated/outdated but Florida who is currently the best team in the East, seems to be firing shots from that area more than any other team.

 

[Maple Leaf]

How do you lose this

 

[Dekes For Days]

Maybe we'd be the best if we became more versatile or maybe it'd translate into better postseason scoring.
Just find it interesting that the point shot is overrated/outdated but Florida who is currently the best team in the East, seems to be firing shots from that area more than any other team.

Florida is 1st in the league in shots, so they have a lot of shots from everywhere, not just long range. They also don't have more long range shots than any other team this year. The list they were high in was last year, when they were a bubble team. They've actually lowered the rate at which they shoot from long range this year, and now they're leading the East. From your list, they're below Colorado. And I just checked second in shots, and they're below Philly in long range shots too, who is fighting to death in the bubble. Probably a bunch more.

I don't see how taking worse shots makes us better offensively, and I don't see how taking one less long range shot every 1-8 games means we're not versatile.
We're 2nd in the league in scoring. Seems pretty versatile. Maybe other teams should become more versatile and take more close range shots.
Or maybe teams are just doing what's best for the makeup of their team and situation, and we're making mountains out of insignificant differences to chase a narrative.

 

[baton elevated]

dumped Thorton and Kessel too, no I in team............

I like their model , fit the mold or out you go. The draft pedigree has no bearing on whether they hold on to them . Not like the leafs.
Boston high draft positions out
Thornton #1
Seguin #2
Kessel #5
Hamilton #7
Samsonov #8
That's Balls!

 

[rumman]

I like their model , fit the mold or out you go. The draft pedigree has no bearing on whether they hold on to them . Not like the leafs.
Boston high draft positions out
Thornton #1
Seguin #2
Kessel #5
Hamilton #7
Samsonov #8
That's Balls!

All good hockey decisions in hindsight

 

[TheGreenTBer]

That's simply not true.

Where there is a will, there is always a way to get things done.

A huge trade is possible if you have the motivation to get things done. It will take a lot of negotiations, and a tonne of hard work. It might also require the cooperation of several teams to get things done.

I think our Leafs need a sound goaltender and one more top 4 defense man. A PK forward is needed as well.

I'd be up for a deal with Calgary to somehow acquire Markstrom and Weegar. We might need to lose Samsonov and/or Woll along with a 1st rounder. Some minor adds can be thrown into the deal for some salary retention as necessary.

Maybe Treliving has targeted another team and other players. It might have to be an off season deal too, however it would be wise to try to improve our odds going into the playoffs.

We've seen that doing minor upgrades and acquisitions every season has not brought any difference for our Leafs ability to compete.

It's time to GO BIG, or go home with your tail between your legs. I myself have seen enough of going home with their tails between their legs. Respect in the hand shake line is for losers !!!

This team has:
- negligible cap space
- an extremely top-heavy roster
- NMC's and/or NTC's on its high-priced, virtually buyout-proof (not thst buyouts are applicable here, but for the sake of facts) assets
- few futures worth a damn and those they do have they can't afford to move
- a lack of a GM that has passed all the tests
- a severe culture of complacency and conservatism in terms of changing the core
- serious question marks in multiple places in the lineup

Where are these magic moves coming from in the middle of the season? It's not realistic whether we like it or not. We have almost no movable high-value assets and we have little cap space or flexibility at best. The offseason after JT's contract ends, that'll be telling what direction they choose to take at that time. But their flexibility is limited until then.

This team is living or dying with this core, the same as previous years. Maybe they'll go far, maybe they won't. I certainly wouldn't bet on it.