GDT: Leafs @ Devils - Groundhog Day! 7:00 PM - MSG

Bleedred

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Goal 2 was forgivable, but not goal 3. That just looked close to really bad.

Goal 1 was REALLY bad. He gives that puck right away. It was at least for the Devils the worst goalie giveaway error by one of our goalies all year. We haven’t had many goalie giveaways this year that led to goals. Maybe Blackwood has one.

I was extremely disappointed to see anybody else that was on the ice blamed for that goal. That was Gillies f*** up and nobody else’s.

He spotted them one 2 minutes into the game. And I mean completely spotted them one. He didn’t not stop a shot he could have, he caused the shot and chance completely.
 

Bleedred

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Let's see. Both Hynes and Deboer were fired here in NJ. They are now in the conversation for Coach of the Year.

Clearly they weren't the issue.
Hynes has a REAL goalie in Nashville. One of the leagues best. Something Ruff sure doesn’t have here. He also inherited a way better team than he left here, that was already a playoff team for 5 straight years when took over. Let’s not act like he’s the reason they’re doing anything.

I got no problem with giving DeBoer credit at this point, but just because a coach gets fired for a team and does well somewhere else doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have been fired. Every coach gets fired. DeBoer probably lasted about as long or slightly longer than the average NHL head coaching stint here. If Lou hadn’t fired him then Shero would came in and fired him 4 months later. He wasn’t gonna start a rebuild with DeBoer as the head coach.

Hynes was here for almost 4.5 years. Hynes head coaching stint is the Devils longest since Jacques Lemaire’s first stint from 93-98 and I think it might have been the second longest coaching tenure in the history of the organization. He got plenty of time here.

I think even DeBoer had one of the top 3-4 longest head coaching stints in the history of the franchise.
 

Nocashstyle

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In his last season, the Devils had an NHL caliber goalie and their number 1 D was Subban. That is a recipe to blow leads. His system does not seem to blow as many leads with good DMen and an NHL caliber goalie.

It certainly helps when he also has Forsberg shooting at 25%, Jeannot and Johansen at 19%, and Duchene at 17%.

Nashville is clearly catching lightning in a bottle this season. Everything is going right for them. But yes, having both a Norris and Vezina-calibre defenseman and goalie certainly helps any team.
 
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Devils731

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I got no problem with giving DeBoer credit at this point, but just because a coach gets fired for a team and does well somewhere else doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have been fired

DeBoer wasn’t a good fit for the Devils then but a coach like him probably would be now.

The Devils have let their players make mistakes and play loose as they felt that will help them grow. Now they would probably benefit from having a leash and strict accountability.

Jeff Torborg said at a camp I attended he’d rather try to coach an aggressive play to pull back than try to coach a player lacking aggression to get crazier. I think the Devils have let most players feel their aggressiveness and now need some of that refined out.
 
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ChicksDigTheTrap

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It certainly helps when he also has Forsberg shooting at 25%, Jeannot and Johansen at 19%, and Duchene at 17%.

Nashville is clearly catching lightning in a bottle this season. Everything is going right for them. But yes, having both a Norris and Vezina-calibre defenseman and goalie certainly helps any team.
If you say you cannot judge a coach with good talent that means we cannot say Jon Cooper is a good coach. After all, he has the best goalie in the world IMO, Kuch, Point, etc. Coaches with good players win.
 
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Bleedred

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DeBoer wasn’t a good fit for the Devils then but a coach like him probably would be now.

The Devils have let their players make mistakes and play loose as they felt that will help them grow. Now they would probably benefit from having a leash and strict accountability.

Jeff Torborg said at a camp I attended he’d rather try to coach an aggressive play to pull back than try to coach a player lacking aggression to get crazier. I think the Devils have let most players feel their aggressiveness and now need some of that refined out.
I am skeptical DeBoer would have handled the goalie position here well, especially in 2018 when we really needed it to be regulated. I think he would have kept playing Schneider and we would have missed the playoffs that year because of it. I've seen how he did with Hedberg, Brodeur, Schneider for 800 games to start his last season here right before he was fired and Martin Jones getting thrown out as much as he did until he got fired in San Jose. Blackwood could have been as bad as he wanted to be and DeBoer would have kept playing him, although Ruff has done the same thing.

I'm pretty sure Ruff will be done in the NHL as a head coach (but me saying that will get him another job quickly) after he's done here, although I could see Buffalo wanting to bring him back for a year or two, like we did with Jacques Lemaire. That seems like a real desperation move up there. ''Well, we keep hiring a new head coach every other year and usually it's a nobody outside of Disco Dan, so.... Let's try Ruff again! He was beloved here!''.

I was foolish to think DeBoer was gonna go a few years before his next head coaching gig and would have to be an assistant first, but I gotta say Hynes quickly getting another NHL head coaching job is still very shocking over 2 years later. I thought he'd definitely have to be an assistant somewhere for a few years first and hope his head coach got fired and got named the interim to get a head coaching job in short order in the NHL. But when you see who hired him (American GM who I'm sure was high on him because of the Team USA connection) it makes perfect sense. Hynes was kind of in the Todd Richards boat, only he was head coach for two different teams in the time Hynes was the head coach just for the Devils. And he made the playoffs once in Columbus and was fired a few weeks into two seasons after the playoff berth and has been an assistant ever since.

Ruff is 62 and I highly doubt he would have gotten an NHL head coaching job (unless it was Buffalo again) by now if we hadn't hired him in 2020. He would have gotten cleaned out with the rest of the Rangers staff after last year and he'd probably be an assistant with someone else right now. Ruff went 3 offseasons without getting an NHL head coaching gig and I would strongly doubt it was because he was constantly turning them down.
 

Nocashstyle

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If you say you cannot judge a coach with good talent that means we cannot say Jon Cooper is a good coach. After all, he has the best goalie in the world IMO, Kuch, Point, etc. Coaches with good players win.

Holy fallacy

I’m not sure what you’re trying to imply here. I’m allowed to think Hynes is not a good coach based on the many years we watched his structure and systems first hand.
 

Dylan9z9

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Soon we will be passed by Ottawa and even Seattle ... Third from the bottom is are landing place if we continue this line of play:(
 

JimEIV

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I don't think Hynes was good coach either. I don't think Tortorella is a good coach either even though he has a good track record of success...

I think Hynes is from the Tortorella school of coaching...Obviously Hynes personality isn't quite as grading but I don't think it is far off...I think they approach the game the same way and I think it is a bit amateurish.
 

guitarguyvic

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I don't think Hynes was good coach either. I don't think Tortorella is a good coach either even though he has a good track record of success...

I think Hynes is from the Tortorella school of coaching...Obviously Hynes personality isn't quite as grading but I don't think it is far off...I think they approach the game the same way and I think it is a bit amateurish.
Agreed.

All this talk about if Hynes was really a good coach or not I think is obscuring what should be the main point…no one outside of a HOF caliber coach is going to have great team success with players of this caliber. Hynes was a bad coach leading a bad team. A decent coach leading a bad team is preferable and they might have slightly better results but they are not gonna become a significantly better team without other changes.

It’s the same story with the goalie. If we had a league average tender in net, maybe we lose last night 3-1 instead of 7-1. To win the game the night before that would have required the goalie to completely steal it. I doubt we’d get more than like 3-4 additional wins with an average goalie, at best. That would put us a couple of spots higher in the standings but nowhere near a playoff spot and not much improved from every other season before this. The idea that a better goalie would lead to even just a couple of extra wins a specious assumption considering this team has routinely found numerous different ways to lose games for years now.
 

ChicksDigTheTrap

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Holy fallacy

I’m not sure what you’re trying to imply here. I’m allowed to think Hynes is not a good coach based on the many years we watched his structure and systems first hand.
I am not implying anything. The Devils had a poor roster in Hynes final 2 seasons and I do not think any coach could have taken them to the playoffs. You telling me he is winning with good players now does not change my view - it makes my point that the Devils had a bad roster his last 2 years.
 

Bleedred

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I am not implying anything. The Devils had a poor roster in Hynes final 2 seasons and I do not think any coach could have taken them to the playoffs. You telling me he is winning with good players now does not change my view - it makes my point that the Devils had a bad roster his last 2 years.
I don't think his last year here the roster was that bad, but he had a gigantic elephant in the room with Schneider and Blackwood being his goalie tandem. That really didn't help him at all. He tried to shelter Schneider and benched him and he was eventually waived, but it only bought him another month.

The roster looked pretty good (like challenge for a playoff spot good, not good like definitely make the playoffs good, just like this year did) coming into the season and I think a lot of us were optimistic, but a few things didn't go as planned, other than the goalie position, which I was ALWAYS skeptical on.

Wayne Simmonds didn't bounce back from his poor season the year before

The big acquisition on defense in Subban wasn't bad that year, but certainly was not who he was before

Jack Hughes didn't have a great a rookie season, which apparently a few people haven't forgotten about and it's still held against him.

I can't really complain about Gusev too much that year. He wasn't bad that year, but I'm pretty sure he started the year slowly and had a hot streak and wound up looking horrible and washing out of the league the next year, but now I'm getting way beyond Hynes tenure here.

Boqvist was also supposed to be a contributor and he had 4 points in 35 games after starting the season on the NHL team and not in the A.

Taylor Hall was pretty mediocre in his time here that year before he was traded. That's another big piece to the BUST that was that season and the offseason hype.

There was a lot of hype about Zacha's last third of the season before (lol) and he had a bad year as well, when we thought (that was like the third time out of four or five that we thought he was ready to ''take the next step''.

And I still wanna see the opening season video that they showed on opening night. It had Shero talking up a bunch of shit about how great the team was gonna be and this is our to finally start moving after the disappointing season before and put in the rearview mirror and build on the playoff year from two seasons before. I can't find that video anywhere on the internet.
 
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ChicksDigTheTrap

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I don't think his last year here the roster was that bad, but he had a gigantic elephant in the room with Schneider and Blackwood being his goalie tandem. That really didn't help him at all. He tried to shelter Schneider and benched him and he was eventually waived, but it only bought him another month.

The roster looked pretty good (like challenge for a playoff spot good, not good like definitely make the playoffs good, just like this year did) coming into the season and I think a lot of us were optimistic, but a few things didn't go as planned, other than the goalie position, which I was ALWAYS skeptical on.

Wayne Simmonds didn't bounce back from his poor season the year before

The big acquisition on defense in Subban wasn't bad that year, but certainly was not who he was before

Jack Hughes didn't have a great a rookie season, which apparently a few people haven't forgotten about and it's still held against him.

I can't really complain about Gusev too much that year. He wasn't bad that year, but I'm pretty sure he started the year slowly and had a hot streak and wound up looking horrible and washing out of the league the next year, but now I'm getting way beyond Hynes tenure here.

Boqvist was also supposed to be a contributor and he had 4 points in 35 games after starting the season on the NHL team and not in the A.

Taylor Hall was pretty mediocre in his time here that year before he was traded. That's another big piece to the BUST that was that season and the offseason hype.

There was a lot of hype about Zacha's last third of the season before (lol) and he had a bad year as well, when we thought (that was like the third time out of four or five that we thought he was ready to ''take the next step''.

And I still wanna see the opening season video that they showed on opening night. It had Shero talking up a bunch of shit about how great the team was gonna be and this is our to finally start moving after the disappointing season before and put in the rearview mirror and build on the playoff year from two seasons before. I can't find that video anywhere on the internet.
We are going to agree to disagree. With AHL goal tending and those DMen and those F's, where was the strenght of that team?

NEW JERSEY DEVILS 2019-20 ROSTER
Goaltenders:
Mackenzie Blackwood, Cory Schneider
Defensemen: Will Butcher, Connor Carrick, Andy Greene, Mirco Mueller, Damon Severson, P.K. Subban, Sami Vatanen
Forwards: Jesper Boqvist, Jesper Bratt, Blake Coleman, Nikita Gusev, Taylor Hall, John Hayden, Nico Hischier, Jack Hughes, Kyle Palmieri, Kevin Rooney, Wayne Simmonds, Miles Wood, Pavel Zacha, Travis Zajac

Hard to believe that D did not perfform at a high level - had to be the system
 

Bleedred

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We are going to agree to disagree. With AHL goal tending and those DMen and those F's, where was the strenght of that team?

NEW JERSEY DEVILS 2019-20 ROSTER
Goaltenders:
Mackenzie Blackwood, Cory Schneider
Defensemen: Will Butcher, Connor Carrick, Andy Greene, Mirco Mueller, Damon Severson, P.K. Subban, Sami Vatanen
Forwards: Jesper Boqvist, Jesper Bratt, Blake Coleman, Nikita Gusev, Taylor Hall, John Hayden, Nico Hischier, Jack Hughes, Kyle Palmieri, Kevin Rooney, Wayne Simmonds, Miles Wood, Pavel Zacha, Travis Zajac

Hard to believe that D did not perfform at a high level - had to be the system
I don't think we even disagree much. That roster had plenty of TERRIBLE players and we knew they would still be terrible that year. Like Rooney (this player always HAS and always WILL SUCK! I don't care if the Rangers like him too, he's a BUM, he always was, he always will be. He's just a little bit better than Rod Pelley though), Hayden, Carrick, Mueller, Andy Greene (he was already SHOT by then), none of those players were valuable at all and I at least knew that going into the season and I think most of us did.

Schneider was absolutely worthless that year, Domingue (who we didn't start the season with) was beyond worthless.

But most of the players that we expected (or at least I expected) to be better that year and they all performed below expectations, whether it's because they were washed up and just not good enough anymore, not good enough period, or they were too young to be contributors, just weren't good enough.

Simmonds was washed up and no count, Hall was the player he had been before injury and at this point in his career he hasn't gotten been any better than he was to start that season off. Remember, he didn't play a single game after Christmas of the season before, se he missed the whole season. He wasn't bad when he came back, but he wound up being a player of very little consequence.

I probably thought Gusev was gonna be a little better, he wasn't bad, but he struggled for much of the first couple of months, if memory serves me correct.

Subban came here and was solid, but didn't produce points the way he had been before he got here. Even the last two years he's been a better point producer than he was that year, but the rest of his game has eroded.

I don't remember Miles Wood being much of a factor at all that year.

Same old, same old from Zacha.

Hughes has a very underwhelming rookie season.

Palmieri and Coleman had pretty good years? Hischier didn't have a bad year at all, but just kind of was the same as the two previous seasons.

I think Bratt and Nico both missed quite a few games. Bratt played 60 and Nico played 58. I think we played 68 games that season. I do distinctly remember a very controversial scratching in the dying weeks of Hynes where both Bratt and Zacha were healthy scratches for a game. We may have even won the game if it was against Detroit, but I may be thinking of some other game?
 
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billingtons ghost

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I think Hynes was a pretty good coach, but like most, when things go badly he had plenty of terrible facets. He tended to panic and juggle lines and he really didn't know how to make adjustments. By the end he lost the team, but I think he made a pretty garbagey team into something decent. We now have a slightly less garbagey team that needs discipline and they aren't getting it.
 

Tundra

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I wish Fitz would bring in Torts. This team is desperate for someone who can hold them accountable. The players have no system, no defence & we look like a bunch of ahl kids. We need a system in place that will help us win games. We don't have the goalie for our play style. Its like we shed our defence for more offense meanwhile we still can't score.

Torts is who they need. He will teach them how to compete, but eventually his grueling style leads to dismissal.
 

PizzaAndPucks

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I don't think Hynes was good coach either. I don't think Tortorella is a good coach either even though he has a good track record of success...

I think Hynes is from the Tortorella school of coaching...Obviously Hynes personality isn't quite as grading but I don't think it is far off...I think they approach the game the same way and I think it is a bit amateurish.
So basically you like no one ?
 

billingtons ghost

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Goal 2 was forgivable, but not goal 3. That just looked close to really bad.

Goal 1 was REALLY bad. He gives that puck right away. It was at least for the Devils the worst goalie giveaway error by one of our goalies all year. We haven’t had many goalie giveaways this year that led to goals. Maybe Blackwood has one.

I was extremely disappointed to see anybody else that was on the ice blamed for that goal. That was Gillies f*** up and nobody else’s.

He spotted them one 2 minutes into the game. And I mean completely spotted them one. He didn’t not stop a shot he could have, he caused the shot and chance completely.

While goal1 was absolutely terrible, you're off your gourd for 2 and 3. 0% chance.
 

NJDevs26

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I mean after a shift when he gives the puck away 4x. Frigging sit him for two shifts or a period. Make some news on TSN and get him a question in the post game. See how much it stings.

Maybe that would work if the game was in Canada and an OOT reporter wanted to stir things up but otherwise, when's the last time any reporter got to ask a tough question of any player or coach here?
 

GameSeven

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Maybe that would work if the game was in Canada and an OOT reporter wanted to stir things up but otherwise, when's the last time any reporter got to ask a tough question of any player or coach here?
What reporters?
 

Bleedred

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While goal1 was absolutely terrible, you're off your gourd for 2 and 3. 0% chance.
Eh come on now.

I know, goal 2 was Matthews, that's never stoppable, whatever.

Goal 3 was not good. He tracked the puck the ENTIRE way. He watches it whiz right by. That is nowhere near a 0% chance.

Not even close.

There were guys to his right, but they didn't impede his vision, they shouldn't have at least.

Goalies make glove saves and Gillies glove is just useless. He might be better off wearing two blockers.

Gillies has probably allowed 6-7 completely clean shots to the glove side already this year with the Devils and that's quite a bit when he's allowed 25 goals.
 

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