Line Combos: Leafs' biggest need?

[Maple Leaf]

Killer instinct and showing up in the big moments.

You can have literally everything in that poll and still lose if you can't step on an opponents neck when he's down.

KILLER INSTINCT.

Hal Gill, Wade Belak and Chad Kilger

 

[Bomber0104]

Hal Gill, Wade Belak and Chad Kilger

 

[notbias]

We need cap space more than anything else, which would mean room to maneuver and the opportunity to make premium upgrades as flaws reveal themselves. Right now the team is like an airplane without landing gear.

What would you have done with 10 million in cap space this summer? Marner has been traded for futures, go.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Development of youth. They need some internal, cheap, young options to step in and fill some of the lesser spots to round out the roster than the revolving door of stiffs we’ve seen the last couple years (Spezza excluded).

 

[Stephen]

What would you have done with 10 million in cap space this summer? Marner has been traded for futures, go.

What we need is cap space to finish the build, so that's independent of "changing the core group."

 

[Stonehands1990]

Not Babs, not Torts but someone more experienced, a little tougher and someone who knows how to respond to adverse situations.
Someone who can motivated multi millionaires

I don’t even trust Keefe to make lines tbh

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

get rid of marners cowardice and contract.

 

[deprw]

What we need is cap space to finish the build, so that's independent of "changing the core group."

Yeah, but you need also targets for that cap space. Just having cap space is an asset, but it's an asset only if you can use it to your advantage. Usually teams use that cap space to UFA players or signing RFA players. I'd say that in last few off seasons there have been three UFAs I'd really wanted to sign Tavares, Pietrangelo and Brodie. I probably miss some and off course, if there isn't any prominent players you can argue if we should sign Taylor Hall, but in foresight if you want cap space then you should avoid those near good enough players.

If you want sign good RFA players you have to draft them or either trade for them. At the moment we are "reaping the benefits" of Hunters drafts, so there isn't that much to sign. It's rare to teams trade away their impact players and by those I mean young defenseman or centers. Dubas has gone UFA route in that sense adding Muzzin and Campbell from trades and some are still arguing if Muzzin trade was good for us. Columbus have had that center problem for ages and Kekalainen is one of the most active GMs trade wise in the NHL and can't seem to solve it.

Last season was our Columbus of 2018-2019 season, where we went all-in and I think rightly so. Expansion draft prevented us from adding player with term on deadline, so we lost lots of futures, but I think sometimes you have to push. We still have defense in place, that last season showed to us. We still have two bonafide centers in this league to build around. There isn't team that is preserving their cap space. Edmonton just signed Hyman and Nurse because those were two best players for them available. Stupid move from my point of view, but did they have lots of options? If they trade Nurse away their defense is terrible and those 1st and 2nds from draft are years away and McDavid is in his prime.

Cap space means nothing if you can't utilize it properly and I don't see us being in the Coyotes mode where we should take bad contracts for futures. After watching this UFA period it's clear that there was no benefit for trading Marner away. I see no options for us to get better trough that route. Next off season we can do that and then we have option to sign Rielly (hopefully that decision is made before season starts). It's pipe dream that we can trade Marner for NHL ready young up and coming (cheap) defense.

We have to draft those future RFAs in some point so I really hope that we don't go to that Foligno route anymore. We can't afford it, but otherwise we have to build around this core until there is option to make significant change by adding player like Pietrangelo, "Heiskanen", "Vasilevsky" or "McDavid". Though those are players other teams build around, like we build around Matthews and Marner. At the moment it's nature of this league, this isn't some fantasy GM. There are openings for players like Muzzin or Devin Toews, then you need that cap space but at the moment we don't have tradable futures for those trades. You have also 30 other competitors on trade market, so it isn't some 100% option to get those players when their available. This isn't old time NHL where GMs shuffle players like card decks.

In some sense we are bit entitled here, since we were pretty lucky that we got Nylander, Matthews and Marner from those drafts to build around. Instead of Reinharts and Dal Colles. Our worst screw up was having bad drafting in later rounds in those drafts, which have meant using futures for adding to our core. Which hopefully changes since we have Liljegren, Sandin and Robertson coming up.

Lou had option to pile up some assets from Bozak, JVR, Gardiner etc. But it is hindsight to go to that route and I think most of us supported those own rentals, so I don't go there.

 

[Alamo Leafer]

add "Pick retrieval" to the list too

 

[Racer88]

I don’t even trust Keefe to make lines tbh

Hahahahaha

 

[Racer88]

Yeah, but you need also targets for that cap space. Just having cap space is an asset, but it's an asset only if you can use it to your advantage. Usually teams use that cap space to UFA players or signing RFA players. I'd say that in last few off seasons there have been three UFAs I'd really wanted to sign Tavares, Pietrangelo and Brodie. I probably miss some and off course, if there isn't any prominent players you can argue if we should sign Taylor Hall, but in foresight if you want cap space then you should avoid those near good enough players.

If you want sign good RFA players you have to draft them or either trade for them. At the moment we are "reaping the benefits" of Hunters drafts, so there isn't that much to sign. It's rare to teams trade away their impact players and by those I mean young defenseman or centers. Dubas has gone UFA route in that sense adding Muzzin and Campbell from trades and some are still arguing if Muzzin trade was good for us. Columbus have had that center problem for ages and Kekalainen is one of the most active GMs trade wise in the NHL and can't seem to solve it.

Last season was our Columbus of 2018-2019 season, where we went all-in and I think rightly so. Expansion draft prevented us from adding player with term on deadline, so we lost lots of futures, but I think sometimes you have to push. We still have defense in place, that last season showed to us. We still have two bonafide centers in this league to build around. There isn't team that is preserving their cap space. Edmonton just signed Hyman and Nurse because those were two best players for them available. Stupid move from my point of view, but did they have lots of options? If they trade Nurse away their defense is terrible and those 1st and 2nds from draft are years away and McDavid is in his prime.

Cap space means nothing if you can't utilize it properly and I don't see us being in the Coyotes mode where we should take bad contracts for futures. After watching this UFA period it's clear that there was no benefit for trading Marner away. I see no options for us to get better trough that route. Next off season we can do that and then we have option to sign Rielly (hopefully that decision is made before season starts). It's pipe dream that we can trade Marner for NHL ready young up and coming (cheap) defense.

We have to draft those future RFAs in some point so I really hope that we don't go to that Foligno route anymore. We can't afford it, but otherwise we have to build around this core until there is option to make significant change by adding player like Pietrangelo, "Heiskanen", "Vasilevsky" or "McDavid". Though those are players other teams build around, like we build around Matthews and Marner. At the moment it's nature of this league, this isn't some fantasy GM. There are openings for players like Muzzin or Devin Toews, then you need that cap space but at the moment we don't have tradable futures for those trades. You have also 30 other competitors on trade market, so it isn't some 100% option to get those players when their available. This isn't old time NHL where GMs shuffle players like card decks.

In some sense we are bit entitled here, since we were pretty lucky that we got Nylander, Matthews and Marner from those drafts to build around. Instead of Reinharts and Dal Colles. Our worst screw up was having bad drafting in later rounds in those drafts, which have meant using futures for adding to our core. Which hopefully changes since we have Liljegren, Sandin and Robertson coming up.

Lou had option to pile up some assets from Bozak, JVR, Gardiner etc. But it is hindsight to go to that route and I think most of us supported those own rentals, so I don't go there.

The biggest mistake has been spending that 11 million dollars on Tavares. If the other 3 play to their potential. We don’t need him. The 11 million could have been distributed throughout the line up so we wouldn’t have so many players on league minimum. Just think if we could up the quality of 11 players by 1 million dollars or 5 players by 2 million dollars. Or maybe just upgrade goaltending by 4-5 million and defence by 4-5 million.
The scenario’s are many

 

[123offtheglass]

Yeah, but you need also targets for that cap space. Just having cap space is an asset, but it's an asset only if you can use it to your advantage. Usually teams use that cap space to UFA players or signing RFA players. I'd say that in last few off seasons there have been three UFAs I'd really wanted to sign Tavares, Pietrangelo and Brodie. I probably miss some and off course, if there isn't any prominent players you can argue if we should sign Taylor Hall, but in foresight if you want cap space then you should avoid those near good enough players.

If you want sign good RFA players you have to draft them or either trade for them. At the moment we are "reaping the benefits" of Hunters drafts, so there isn't that much to sign. It's rare to teams trade away their impact players and by those I mean young defenseman or centers. Dubas has gone UFA route in that sense adding Muzzin and Campbell from trades and some are still arguing if Muzzin trade was good for us. Columbus have had that center problem for ages and Kekalainen is one of the most active GMs trade wise in the NHL and can't seem to solve it.

Last season was our Columbus of 2018-2019 season, where we went all-in and I think rightly so. Expansion draft prevented us from adding player with term on deadline, so we lost lots of futures, but I think sometimes you have to push. We still have defense in place, that last season showed to us. We still have two bonafide centers in this league to build around. There isn't team that is preserving their cap space. Edmonton just signed Hyman and Nurse because those were two best players for them available. Stupid move from my point of view, but did they have lots of options? If they trade Nurse away their defense is terrible and those 1st and 2nds from draft are years away and McDavid is in his prime.

Cap space means nothing if you can't utilize it properly and I don't see us being in the Coyotes mode where we should take bad contracts for futures. After watching this UFA period it's clear that there was no benefit for trading Marner away. I see no options for us to get better trough that route. Next off season we can do that and then we have option to sign Rielly (hopefully that decision is made before season starts). It's pipe dream that we can trade Marner for NHL ready young up and coming (cheap) defense.

We have to draft those future RFAs in some point so I really hope that we don't go to that Foligno route anymore. We can't afford it, but otherwise we have to build around this core until there is option to make significant change by adding player like Pietrangelo, "Heiskanen", "Vasilevsky" or "McDavid". Though those are players other teams build around, like we build around Matthews and Marner. At the moment it's nature of this league, this isn't some fantasy GM. There are openings for players like Muzzin or Devin Toews, then you need that cap space but at the moment we don't have tradable futures for those trades. You have also 30 other competitors on trade market, so it isn't some 100% option to get those players when their available. This isn't old time NHL where GMs shuffle players like card decks.

In some sense we are bit entitled here, since we were pretty lucky that we got Nylander, Matthews and Marner from those drafts to build around. Instead of Reinharts and Dal Colles. Our worst screw up was having bad drafting in later rounds in those drafts, which have meant using futures for adding to our core. Which hopefully changes since we have Liljegren, Sandin and Robertson coming up.

Lou had option to pile up some assets from Bozak, JVR, Gardiner etc. But it is hindsight to go to that route and I think most of us supported those own rentals, so I don't go there.

Real solid take. What did you mean by: “but I think sometimes you have to push.”?

I think what Dubas currently has constructed targets the 2023 & 2024 playoffs. This is important considering:
1) Matthews (& others) contracts expire in 2024, &
2) Dubas just went ALL-IN this past TDL; he can’t take the same approach this TDL.

Considering his options are limited, I really like what he’s done this off-season so far. It sets them up for that “window” while still having an outside chance to contend.

 

[Orfieus]

Toronto's "biggest need" is to Trade Marner

 

[deprw]

Real solid take. What did you mean by: “but I think sometimes you have to push.”?

I think what Dubas currently has constructed targets the 2023 & 2024 playoffs. This is important considering:
1) Matthews (& others) contracts expire in 2024, &
2) Dubas just went ALL-IN this past TDL; he can’t take the same approach this TDL.

Considering his options are limited, I really like what he’s done this off-season so far. It sets them up for that “window” while still having an outside chance to contend.

By pushing I mean trading those futures for rentals like we did this spring. It was good opportunity and chance for this core. Same way Capitals did 2016-2017 and Blue Jackets 2018-2019. Team was good enough to add and we did so. I think without expansion draft Dubas would have gone for RFAs or players with term. We used that card now, so we don't have futures for that anymore. If we fail next season I think we have to retool or do something.

The biggest mistake has been spending that 11 million dollars on Tavares. If the other 3 play to their potential. We don’t need him. The 11 million could have been distributed throughout the line up so we wouldn’t have so many players on league minimum. Just think if we could up the quality of 11 players by 1 million dollars or 5 players by 2 million dollars. Or maybe just upgrade goaltending by 4-5 million and defence by 4-5 million.
The scenario’s are many

I think it's problem to us right now, but did we really lost last few season because of that or those contracts? We might have kept Marleaus bad contract and kept 2019 1st rounder or Kapanen, but I don't know if it was something that prevented us from contending. From cap perspective I don't know if we lost anyone until this point, when we couldn't afford Hyman, though I don't know if it's bad thing. Having those futures wouldn't have helped us anyway and Marleau would have slowed us down.

Marners contract is slowing us down in the future and it suboptimal, but like I said earlier usually you keep your RFAs and sign them. We have tax disadvantages and that might have some say in those negotiations with Marner. I hope we can keep those players with fair contracts after these, because we didn't bridged them and paid them fairly. Even with good contract we might have not been able to add Pietrangelo last summer.


If I answer to this threads question I'd say we still need that #1 defenseman, but it's damn hard even if you have cap space for that. We missed that #1 center for 10 years and now we have two, still you are bummed about Tavares. He was great UFA to acquire, usually there isn't 1st line talent on their prime available or goalies that aren't gamble some way. Pietrangelo was only other great UFA option and it isn't sure that he would sign here or sign here on that same money he did for Vegas.

 

[sittler rules!!!]

I picked coach because a good one can make the biggest impact the quickest.
We need a coach a little more like Babcock but not a nasty and underhanded.
Someone who will hold the entitled players accountable and sit them in the stands for a game if needed.
I know I am dreaming

Sounds like Barry Trotz. Or.........is Rick Tochett available?

 

[Racer88]

Sounds like Barry Trotz. Or.........is Rick Tochett available?

Probably at one time they were but Dubas went with a coach with zero NHL experience and almost no ability to think on his feet and adapt in game……or even game to game

 

[egd27]

Probably at one time they were but Dubas went with a coach with zero NHL experience and almost no ability to think on his feet and adapt in game……or even game to game

When he (and everyone else) knew perfectly well he was going dump Babcock at the first opportunity, Dubas was not ready with suitable replacement other than his buddy from the OHL.

 

[Dekes For Days]

When he (and everyone else) knew perfectly well he was going dump Babcock at the first opportunity, Dubas was not ready with suitable replacement other than his buddy from the OHL.

He did not "dump Babcock at the first opportunity". He dumped Babcock after he had almost flushed our entire season down the drain.
He did have a suitable replacement. His Calder Cup winning AHL coach.

 

[egd27]

He did not "dump Babcock at the first opportunity". He dumped Babcock after he had almost flushed our entire season down the drain.
He did have a suitable replacement. His Calder Cup winning AHL coach.

Perhaps I should have rephrased......After the 2019 Playoffs, everyone knew Dubas was going to fire Babcock as soon as he possibly could.

Of course you would think Keefe was a suitable replacement. I'm going to disagree.

 

[Dekes For Days]

After the 2019 Playoffs, everyone knew Dubas was going to fire Babcock as soon as he possibly could.

Except he didn't fire Babcock after the 2019 playoffs either. He only fired Babcock after he had almost flushed our entire season down the drain, like any GM would with any coach.

Of course you would think Keefe was a suitable replacement. I'm going to disagree.

Hiring their Calder Cup winning coach worked out pretty well for Tampa.

 

[egd27]

Except he didn't fire Babcock after the 2019 playoffs either. He only fired Babcock after he had almost flushed our entire season down the drain, like any GM would with any coach.

Well if you didn't know Babcock was on borrowed time after the 2019 season, you were likely in the minority.

 

[Morbo]

a strong 3C

 

[capfit9]

someone to drag them into a game, an emotional leader

 

[Racer88]

When he (and everyone else) knew perfectly well he was going dump Babcock at the first opportunity, Dubas was not ready with suitable replacement other than his buddy from the OHL.

Yup and now we are paying the price

 

[Racer88]

Except he didn't fire Babcock after the 2019 playoffs either. He only fired Babcock after he had almost flushed our entire season down the drain, like any GM would with any coach.

Hiring their Calder Cup winning coach worked out pretty well for Tampa.

It might have worked out for Tampa but it is not working for the Leafs.