Line Combos: Leafs' biggest need?

[Coachcorner]

I

Trade for Kadri and Domi and we got a stew going​

I mean, we would be thuggin it up big tyme sire. Hard. The name Domi in our new jerseys would also sell like............................................................ THE BEST EVER.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Keefe is a Calder winning coach because that team was stacked, not because he made great coaching decisions.

That's completely baseless. A person is not unqualified just because you arbitrarily dismiss all of their accomplishments. His hiring was based on merit, and his path to the NHL is no different from the path many other successful coaches took.

Conveniently you forget the day he was hired as the Marlies coach he was considered Babcock's replacement. In effect Dubas hired a OHL coach to coach with zero pro coaching experience to coach the Leafs.

The day he was hired as the Marlies coach, he was considered the coach of the Marlies. When he was promoted to the NHL, he was an AHL champion with multiple years of professional coaching experience. And he's doing quite well in the NHL so far.

The coaching decisions that I disagree with are to people with hockey experience easy to identify mistakes.

No, they're not. Most of the things you've had an issue with have legitimate reasoning, and are not uncommon in the NHL. Just because you personally disagree with something, it doesn't make it the wrong decision. And even if some particular decision does turn out to be wrong, it doesn't make one unqualified for their position.

 

[ITM]

One more goal than the other team in one game out of three to win it.

 

[hamzarocks]

When in doubt go with all of the above

 

[ottomaddox]

Shanny needs to stop falling on the sword for Dubas.

 

[Bluelines]

That's completely baseless. A person is not unqualified just because you arbitrarily dismiss all of their accomplishments. His hiring was based on merit, and his path to the NHL is no different from the path many other successful coaches took.

The day he was hired as the Marlies coach, he was considered the coach of the Marlies. When he was promoted to the NHL, he was an AHL champion with multiple years of professional coaching experience. And he's doing quite well in the NHL so far.

No, they're not. Most of the things you've had an issue with have legitimate reasoning, and are not uncommon in the NHL. Just because you personally disagree with something, it doesn't make it the wrong decision. And even if some particular decision does turn out to be wrong, it doesn't make one unqualified for their position.

1) All I can say is an ant does not know its an ant.
2) You don't take instructions well, I asked you to not waste my time and you proceeded to blah, blah, blah...
3) Since you've shown your ability to use google, perhaps search Keefe and go back to when he was hired as AHL coach , there are HUNDREDS of articles that discuss Keefe as the heir apparent for Babcock's job.
4) Hoping things are the way you "think" they are or the way you want it to be does not make is so, there are these pesky things called truth and facts that might get in the way. Google it next time and you can save me from blah , blah blah...

 

[Bluelines]

is AHL goalie coach on the menu?

They hired one and then fired him ...

Maple Leafs renege on Dusty Imoo hire, call decision a 'mistake' after Twitter 'likes' surface

 

[Dekes For Days]

there are HUNDREDS of articles that discuss Keefe as the heir apparent for Babcock's job.

Highly exaggerated, though I'm not surprised that people recognized and acknowledged the quality of coach he was, even back then. And then he went on to be successful in the AHL for multiple years, win an AHL championship, and is now doing quite well in the NHL.

Hoping things are the way you "think" they are or the way you want it to be does not make is so, there are these pesky things called truth and facts that might get in the way.

Those things support my position.

 

[Bluelines]

Highly exaggerated, though I'm not surprised that people recognized and acknowledged the quality of coach he was, even back then. And then he went on to be successful in the AHL for multiple years, win an AHL championship, and is now doing quite well in the NHL.

15,500 results ... Keefe Heir apparent to babcock - Google Search

[MOD]

 

[Dreakmur]

Highly exaggerated, though I'm not surprised that people recognized and acknowledged the quality of coach he was, even back then. And then he went on to be successful in the AHL for multiple years, win an AHL championship, and is now doing quite well in the NHL.

Was he viewed that way because of his coaching ability or because of his relationship with Dubas? Based on what I’ve seen, he’s not an NHL caliber coach, so that leaves nepotism.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Was he viewed that way because of his coaching ability or because of his relationship with Dubas? Based on what I’ve seen, he’s not an NHL caliber coach, so that leaves nepotism.

His coaching in the playoffs sure wasn't effective at all

 

[Dekes For Days]

Based on what I’ve seen, he’s not an NHL caliber coach

What you believe is irrelevant. He's an NHL coach, who got there the same way as other successful NHL coaches, and he's doing quite well in the NHL.

 

[Racer88]

Any coach that will not line match when required or make meaningful line adjustments in game, cannot even motivate one of his 11 million dollar players to be ready to start a playoff game 2 series in a row and cannot fix the PP when he has 4 high paid supposed star players at his disposal is not a good coach

 

[Dreakmur]

What you believe is irrelevant. He's an NHL coach, who got there the same way as other successful NHL coaches, and he's doing quite well in the NHL.

He repeatedly loses to lesser teams. That is not what I call doing quite well.

What strategies do you see Keefe implementing that make you think he’s a good coach?

 

[egd27]

Was he viewed that way because of his coaching ability or because of his relationship with Dubas? Based on what I’ve seen, he’s not an NHL caliber coach, so that leaves nepotism.

One writer's opinion:

Dubas and Keefe go back a long way. In fact, they’ve grown together through the system. When Dubas was general manager of the Ontario Hockey League’s Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds, he hired Keefe to coach the team (2012-15).
When he became general manager for the Marlies in 2015, he quickly hired Keefe to coach the Marlies. And, that partnership has continued.
There’s no reason to believe this relationship isn’t a pattern, which means Keefe will one day become the Maple Leafs head coach – as long as Dubas is in the picture.
Keefe is Dubas’ man. Where Dubas goes, Keefe follows.

 

[Dreakmur]

One writer's opinion:

Dubas and Keefe go back a long way. In fact, they’ve grown together through the system. When Dubas was general manager of the Ontario Hockey League’s Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds, he hired Keefe to coach the team (2012-15).
When he became general manager for the Marlies in 2015, he quickly hired Keefe to coach the Marlies. And, that partnership has continued.
There’s no reason to believe this relationship isn’t a pattern, which means Keefe will one day become the Maple Leafs head coach – as long as Dubas is in the picture.
Keefe is Dubas’ man. Where Dubas goes, Keefe follows.

That’s pretty much how I remembered it.

 

[Dekes For Days]

He repeatedly loses to lesser teams.

There's more to evaluating a coach than playoff series wins and losses. Barely losing once to a team with less points than us, who would then go on to the Cup final, is not repeatedly losing to lesser teams. We outplayed them and outscored them while missing a significant piece of our team. Many successful coaches started their NHL career losing playoff rounds, including in much worse ways. That doesn't make them bad NHL coaches.

 

[Dreakmur]

There's more to evaluating a coach than playoff series wins and losses. Barely losing once to a team with less points than us, who would then go on to the Cup final, is not repeatedly losing to lesser teams. We outplayed them and outscored them while missing a significant piece of our team. Many successful coaches started their NHL career losing playoff rounds, including in much worse ways. That doesn't make them bad NHL coaches.

We lost to two teams that we inferior. Unless you think we aren’t better than Columbus, which tells me you must think the team isn’t very good.

The more important part of my post, which you cut out, was asking what strategies has Keefe implemented that you like?

 

[Dekes For Days]

We lost to two teams that we inferior. Unless you think we aren’t better than Columbus, which tells me you must think the team isn’t very good.

We're currently better than the team that lost to Columbus, and I think we should have won against Columbus, but people also vastly underrated Columbus that year. Fact is, they had the same number of points as us, so if you're going to call them lesser, then you're acknowledging that there's more to team evaluation, which is problematic for somebody attempting to define a coach exclusively by those same surface results in a much smaller sample, arbitrarily attributed to him. Two isn't "repeatedly" either, for the record.

 

[Dreakmur]

We're currently better than the team that lost to Columbus, and I think we should have won against Columbus, but people also vastly underrated Columbus that year. Fact is, they had the same number of points as us, so if you're going to call them lesser, then you're acknowledging that there's more to team evaluation, which is problematic for somebody attempting to define a coach exclusively by those same surface results in a much smaller sample, arbitrarily attributed to him. Two isn't "repeatedly" either, for the record.

Toronto was vastly more talented than Columbus. Why would I deny there are other factors beyond raw point totals?

The fact that we were as low as 8th was embarrassing enough, but then we had to one-up that and lose to the 9th seed. I honestly was expecting a sweep. I agree Columbus played really well, and they got more good bounces than we did… but if we’re a few good bounces away from Columbus, that’s a significant problem. Either the team isn’t nearly as good as we all think, or the coaching is poor. Based on watching how he handles the team, I think he’s a clear problem - maybe not the only one, but he is one.

Since you keep cutting out my question asking why you like Keefe, I’ll just have to assume there isn’t a reason beyond the fact that Kyle Dubas hired him.

 

[Bomber0104]

We lost to two teams that we inferior. Unless you think we aren’t better than Columbus, which tells me you must think the team isn’t very good.

The more important part of my post, which you cut out, was asking what strategies has Keefe implemented that you like?

That may be a tough one to answer..

After all, one would have to actually watch the games to know what coaching strategies are used...

Or in Keefe's case, his lack of strategies.

 

[egd27]

Toronto was vastly more talented than Columbus. Why would I deny there are other factors beyond raw point totals?

Funny how the argument changes with the Dubites when it suits them.

2019-20 Season

A. Once Babcock was fired and Keefe took over, the Leafs were a Top 5 team
B. CBJ had the same number of points as us, so you can't call them lesser

 

[Dekes For Days]

Why would I deny there are other factors beyond raw point totals?

Because surface level wins and losses in a tiny sample with no context was your entire reasoning for claiming that Keefe wasn't NHL caliber.

Either the team isn’t nearly as good as we all think, or the coaching is poor.

Lots of options outside of that.

I’ll just have to assume there isn’t a reason beyond the fact that Kyle Dubas hired him.

Your assumption regarding this deflection of yours would be incorrect.

 

[IPS]

Funny how the argument changes with the Dubites when it suits them.

2019-20 Season

A. Once Babcock was fired and Keefe took over, the Leafs were a Top 5 team
B. CBJ had the same number of points as us, so you can't call them lesser

All well if they want to champion the Leafs as a great regular season team, but it clearly didn't mean anything against Columbus and Montreal. That's when "impossible to beat goaltending" becomes the new go-to argument.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Funny how the argument changes with the Dubites when it suits them.
2019-20 Season

A. Once Babcock was fired and Keefe took over, the Leafs were a Top 5 team
B. CBJ had the same number of points as us, so you can't call them lesser

The argument is the exact same - context is important. You can call them lesser if you acknowledge that there's more to a proper evaluation than surface level wins and losses. But you can't have it both ways.