Confirmed with Link: Leafs add Hayley Wickenheiser, Noelle Needham and Victor Carneiro to front office

[BoredBrandonPridham]

I think it was stated that her area was 4 or 5 prospects. It was tiny and she is 5 hrs out. If someone got that info wrong please correct me and them.

I mean your analogy is completely off the mark and troll worthy. You give someone a foot in the door and you give them prospects to develop to showcase your approach and method and you work your way up.

It’s more like Dubas being tasked with being AHL GM to show Shanny he has what it takes before going into the NHL. Or really any kind of entry level professional being given introductory work to learn the ropes and demonstrate their abilities.

This is just a very normal process that you’re suspiciously marginalising.

 

[Gallagbi]

It's been a long boring day. Forgive my ignorance.

Have you thought about player development? I read somewhere that available time is a big plus.

 

[thewave]

OK who is more qualified based on the Leafs criteria that is available for the same position?

Yes far be it from the "experts" on this forum not to answer a simple question so they can reaffirm that they are the smartest person they know. For the dumb people like me please tell me how good PR benefits the Leafs?

Robidas and if you look around the league at the total number of ex players (they usually are) in that dept. They only need one or sometimes two to fill the position. In this case only because he is an assistant. Here is an example of full fledged Directors...

David Oliver -Former NHLer

"Among the Avs faithful, Oliver may be a little bit of a controversial staff member. I doubt most Avs fans could pick him out of a lineup — or could have articulated who he was prior to today. However, most of us have an opinion about how player development has been going.

Oliver had actually been with the Avalanche organization for a long time — 11 seasons. Prior to serving as Director of Player Development, he was the Director of AHL Operations for the Avs’ affiliate at the time, the Lake Erie Monsters."

Chris Drury

"The New York Rangers on Friday named Chris Drury director of player development.
Drury, 39, retired in 2011. He played the final four of his 12 NHL seasons with the Rangers, and was captain for the final three." -NYR

Rob Ramage

"Rob Ramage, who becomes director of player development" - Montreal Canadiens

Stacy Roest

"NHL veteran STACY ROEST was named director of player development on July 1, 2013 and enters his fifth season in 2016-17." -Tampa Bay

 

[thewave]

Have you thought about player development? I read somewhere that available time is a big plus.

I did actually. Haley took the gig and ran like a thief in the night back to Med school.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

This is what he calls passive aggressive.



To the rest of the world it's called a question. One that he has yet to answer. Care to answer it?

The question you "asked" is a question that everyone with the social awareness above that of a sea slug knows the answer to. Yet you continue to ask it.

Agenda much?

 

[Daisy Jane]

OK who is more qualified based on the Leafs criteria that is available for the same position?

Yes far be it from the "experts" on this forum not to answer a simple question so they can reaffirm that they are the smartest person they know. For the dumb people like me please tell me how good PR benefits the Leafs?

this doesn't make sense (or i am too sick and I don't get what you mean).

good PR is always good.
in this case it benefits the Leafs by showing that they will take a chance on you regardless of convention, providing you are good at what you are being hired for. this will attract more people to the organization, and thus in turn give us amazing people to continue to make us great.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I think it was stated that her area was 4 or 5 prospects. It was tiny and she is 5 hrs out. If someone got that info wrong please correct me and them.

HW is responsible for the monitoring the Leafs' WHL prospects which, presently, is only 3 (Stotts, Scott, and Kral).

However she is also expected to go to Toronto a couple of times a month to work with the Marlies and the Leafs directly.

 

[Bluelines]

Robidas and if you look around the league at the total number of ex players (they usually are) in that dept. They only need one or sometimes two to fill the position. In this case only because he is an assistant. Here is an example of full fledged Directors...

David Oliver -Former NHLer

"Among the Avs faithful, Oliver may be a little bit of a controversial staff member. I doubt most Avs fans could pick him out of a lineup — or could have articulated who he was prior to today. However, most of us have an opinion about how player development has been going.

Oliver had actually been with the Avalanche organization for a long time — 11 seasons. Prior to serving as Director of Player Development, he was the Director of AHL Operations for the Avs’ affiliate at the time, the Lake Erie Monsters."

Chris Drury

"The New York Rangers on Friday named Chris Drury director of player development.
Drury, 39, retired in 2011. He played the final four of his 12 NHL seasons with the Rangers, and was captain for the final three." -NYR

Rob Ramage

"Rob Ramage, who becomes director of player development" - Montreal Canadiens

Stacy Roest

"NHL veteran STACY ROEST was named director of player development on July 1, 2013 and enters his fifth season in 2016-17." -Tampa Bay

How many of them have 4 Olympic Gold medals as captain of their Olympic team? Sorry none of them they don't meet the criteria..try again.

Making up my own criteria is fun, I see why you do it.

 

[Bluelines]

The question you "asked" is a question that everyone with the social awareness above that of a sea slug knows the answer to. Yet you continue to ask it.

Agenda much?

I do like to swim in the ocean, dried sea weed is one of my favorite snacks.

So by refusing to give me what is apparently the easiest answer to any question ever asked are you admitting that you don't know the answer and have the social awareness lower than a sea slug or you can't articulate the answer. Keep in mind you can make the answer really simple cause Sea Slug IQ> Me IQ ...

 

[Bluelines]

this doesn't make sense (or i am too sick and I don't get what you mean).

good PR is always good.
in this case it benefits the Leafs by showing that they will take a chance on you regardless of convention, providing you are good at what you are being hired for. this will attract more people to the organization, and thus in turn give us amazing people to continue to make us great.

Before the HW hiring were they having an issues attracting good people? So a solution to a problem they didn't have?

 

[LeafChief]

It sucks that the hiring of Wickenheiser is going to crumble this dynasty to the ground.

 

[GardinerTheForward]

Explaining your poor rationale won't make it any less poor.

You're so ignorant it isn't worth me to explain then.

 

[bluumax]

Then what does "player development" consist of? I'm always looking to learn.

I think theWave kind of covered it, but ill answer aswell, because it really does seem like the line between coaching and player development is really blurring in this thread.

So i meet with a prospect, i ask them to tell me their strengths and weaknesses (i already have in depth knowledge of this from my scouting and coaching colleagues, but 1st priority is seeing whether the player can self identify these things). We use this info to analyse training needs.

Lets say player A says his skating needs work, we discuss how it needs work; is this a strength issue, technique issue, fitness issue? i cross reference this with the info from scouts/coaches and then we can look at referring player A to a good strength training coach or to a good skating coach. We discuss progress with said coaches and come up with some achievable short term and long term goals.

This could be for anything and everything; nutrition, on ice training, off ice training, how to balance life and hockey, dealing with pressure, literally anything and everything.

They key points are; first off you're not on your own, left to develop a player into a star, youre just the "primary contact" and second, you dont have to be an Ex pro to be good at player development (no doubt it helps) but you do need to be good assessing information from multiple sources and matching each problem to the right solution- for example, one that came up recently; If I dont tell Luke Schenn after his rookie season to "go away and gain some weight" and instead refer him to a strength and conditioning coach alongside a skating coach- we could've had a top 4 instead of bottom pairing guy.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Before the HW hiring were they having an issues attracting good people? So a solution to a problem they didn't have?

again... i don't know what you are trying to asked.
you asked. how is this good PR helping the leafs.
i answered this. twice.

it's not just 'good people.' it's that the Leafs are not afraid to take the risks to give opportunities to anybody. If, for example. Minnesota did it, it would be like. "oh look, Minnesota did it." if the other O6 teams did it there would be more fire, and as we know, Leafs anything causes more drama because it's Leafs and why not. Cassie Campbell-Pascal stated that a big reason why there aren't more women in the league yet has to do with trust and while there are a few already in, (including the Commissioner's office, and people say if Bettman steps down, this Jessica someone could really be a candidate (or at least being the new Daly), the fact that the Leafs are doing it is a good thing.

Good PR is Good PR, and it's always beneficial.

now if you are trying to say that this was the only reason why Wick was hired, then, okay i can see what you are trying to get at but i don't think you're articulating yourself well. if you're trying to insinuate that the Leafs don't need good PR and if this won't help, then I do think you're wrong.

 

[Bluelines]

again... i don't know what you are trying to asked.
you asked. how is this good PR helping the leafs.
i answered this. twice.

it's not just 'good people.' it's that the Leafs are not afraid to take the risks to give opportunities to anybody. If, for example. Minnesota did it, it would be like. "oh look, Minnesota did it." if the other O6 teams did it there would be more fire, and as we know, Leafs anything causes more drama because it's Leafs and why not. Cassie Campbell-Pascal stated that a big reason why there aren't more women in the league yet has to do with trust and while there are a few already in, (including the Commissioner's office, and people say if Bettman steps down, this Jessica someone could really be a candidate (or at least being the new Daly), the fact that the Leafs are doing it is a good thing.

Good PR is Good PR, and it's always beneficial.

now if you are trying to say that this was the only reason why Wick was hired, then, okay i can see what you are trying to get at but i don't think you're articulating yourself well. if you're trying to insinuate that the Leafs don't need good PR and if this won't help, then I do think you're wrong.

dsred said it was an obvious PR move to benefit the Leafs. My question is how does a PR move benefit the Leafs? Would it help the team with the biggest fan base attract more fans? Would the highest revenue team make more money? Does a PR move have magical powers to help the players develop into better players?

PR is good for politicians but it truly has zero effect on the most popular, financially rich hockey team in the world.

It clearly was not a PR move, it was a hockey move. If people feel good about it want to join hands and sing Kumbya in Maple Leaf square, have at 'er but to say this is a PR move is simply a thoughtless and baseless statement motivated by ignorance and sexism.

 

[Daisy Jane]

dsred said it was an obvious PR move to benefit the Leafs. My question is how does a PR move benefit the Leafs? Would it help the team with the biggest fan base attract more fans? Would the highest revenue team make more money? Does a PR move have magical powers to help the players develop into better players?

PR is good for politicians but it truly has zero effect on the most popular, financially rich hockey team in the world.

It clearly was not a PR move, it was a hockey move. If people feel good about it want to join hands and sing Kumbya in Maple Leaf square, have at 'er but to say this is a PR move is simply a thoughtless and baseless statement motivated by ignorance and sexism.

.... and i answered you how it does.
three times now.

it benefits the front office, which i broke down. three times.
they should be on the last two pages if you missed it.

and as i said, now countless times - if that's the only thing people are saying, then yes, you are right to a point. but i also think ignoring the fact that it is generating good PR for the Leafs (even if that wasn't the intention) is being obtuse. (and then truthfully, it shouldn't matter anyway, which i've also said countless times)

 

[Bluelines]

.... and i answered you how it does.
three times now.

it benefits the front office, which i broke down. three times.
they should be on the last two pages if you missed it.

and as i said, now countless times - if that's the only thing people are saying, then yes, you are right to a point. but i also think ignoring the fact that it is generating good PR for the Leafs (even if that wasn't the intention) is being obtuse. (and then truthfully, it shouldn't matter anyway, which i've also said countless times)

I read your posts. Yes there is a positive vibe being sent to the Leafs by some people, I'm not ignoring that, its acknowledged but its a by product of a smart hiring of a qualified candidate. Some people are also sending negative vibes to them too because they think this is solely for the purpose of saying hey look how progressive we are, we hired an unqualified woman so we can look good in the eyes of some people. Which is stupid.

In the end PR is not the primary driving motivation and that is what dsred was suggesting.

In the end if PR is so valuable to a hockey team why isn't every hockey team hiring female player development people? That is all I'm trying to quantify how does PR specifically help the on ice product? Pro tip : It doesn't.

Why is it sexists act tough when they spew their tripe but act cowardly and hide from their comments when you call them out? Never understood that phenomena.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

HW being a woman doesn't eliminate her from being a good candidate for a front office to evaluate and develop talent. That being said, and knowing how the corporate world works, to say that there wasn't a bit of thought given to the fact that hiring a woman would bring the Leafs some good PR would seem to be a bit naïve.

Above is my "sexist" post stating that HW was hired "primarily" for PR reasons.

 

[deletethis]

Above is my "sexist" post stating that HW was hired "primarily" for PR reasons.

But you broke with the official "correct" position for this thread. That has to mean you're a closet sexist.

Be kind. They had to use the "S" bomb because you cut through the trite blather to the reality bone. That has to be crushed.

Again, I'm surprised that there isn't some outrage (and disappointment) at the lack of significance to this move. My only guess is that it's seen as a small victory of untold political value with the wall to wall media coverage it received. And therefore it mustn't be publicly devalued. Personally, I think it should be publicly devalued because the hiring is almost entirely cosmetic. Lauding the hiring gets the NHL off the hook with the most minimal of gestures.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

To me really the hiring is a nothing burger. The Leafs have lots of money so if it turns out she can't commit due to medical school realities I'm fine with it.

 

[Liminality]

This hiring was a "nothing burger" to most of this fanbase. It's the people who saw this signing and instantly thought "PR move, PR move!" that made this last longer than it should have.

Again in the end, Wickenheiser was just as qualified as any other ex-NHL player who transitioned into this role. It's just nice to see one of women hockey's best player get a job on an NHL team, nothing more.

 

[Bluelines]

Above is my "sexist" post stating that HW was hired "primarily" for PR reasons.

You're OP is a thinly veiled "I'm not a sexist but..."

 

[Daisy Jane]

You're OP is a thinly veiled "I'm not a sexist but..."

i'm a girl.
i don't see zero things wrong with what he said. unless you think i'm a closet sexist too.