Le Retour des Nordiques Partie XIII: L'espoir renait

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

Last season I went to a Jets game in Sunrise and paid $22 to sit in the 8th row on the Blueline. $22 doesn't even get you into the MTS Centre, does it?

1. A friend of mine is a season-ticket holder with the Panthers, and he is not renewing. owing to the terrible customer service they are now offering.

2. The writing is on the wall ... Panthers to Quebec.

3. Some people have argued that Viola bought the Panthers for prestige. I call that wishful thinking. His purchase of the Panthers was a shrewd investment, and he is doing exactly what somebody who treats it as an investment would do: maximizing his return.

4. He has cut staff, in-game amenities, and is 5. clearly not interested in selling more season tickets. Rather, he sees an opportunity to sell it to Quebecor. 6. He bought it for $160 Million, probably lost in the range of $60M operating it, and is now going to sell it for $400M+. Doubling his investment in a couple of years is pretty good business.

I've taken the time to go through this post and mark everything wrong with it.

1. The Panthers have always had terrible customer service, as a former sther I can attest to this. The new regime has increased perks for current holders and is not increasing prices for existing holders as a reward for sticking with them

2. Before the vote takes place this is simply an outlandish statement

3/4. He cut staff because there was so much unnecessary fat. Someone who was fired by the team posted on this board saying this, and it was obvious. Paying people to do nothing isn't smart. In-game amenities are no different than in past years, so I'm not sure what your referring to?

5. "he is clearly not interested in selling more tickets" What proof of there is this? Sure there's been no increase in marketing this year but it's year 1 of the changes, I don't know how you can see it's clear.

6. The Atlanta Thrashers who were less in the red than Florida sold for 110 million, and the Panthers are going to sell for 400 million? precedent says this isn't true. And if this was going to be true, what on earth was Viner thinking selling, when he could have doubled his investment if he hung on for 2 more years?

 

[MiamiHockey]

I've taken the time to go through this post and mark everything wrong with it.

1. The Panthers have always had terrible customer service, as a former sther I can attest to this. The new regime has increased perks for current holders and is not increasing prices for existing holders as a reward for sticking with them

2. Before the vote takes place this is simply an outlandish statement

3/4. He cut staff because there was so much unnecessary fat. Someone who was fired by the team posted on this board saying this, and it was obvious. Paying people to do nothing isn't smart. In-game amenities are no different than in past years, so I'm not sure what your referring to?

5. "he is clearly not interested in selling more tickets" What proof of there is this? Sure there's been no increase in marketing this year but it's year 1 of the changes, I don't know how you can see it's clear.

6. The Atlanta Thrashers who were less in the red than Florida sold for 110 million, and the Panthers are going to sell for 400 million? precedent says this isn't true. And if this was going to be true, what on earth was Viner thinking selling, when he could have doubled his investment if he hung on for 2 more years?

At the game I went to last week, they played the Canadian and US anthems off of a terrible recording - how difficult is it to get an actual anthem singer? The cheerleaders are gone, and the "Rat Pack" looks like a bunch of local kids with nothing better to do.

I've never claimed this to be based on anything more than my own opinion. I'm not friends with Viola, but it does not take a genius to attend a Panthers game and see the complete lack of local support. There is a small group of loyal fans, but that is not what makes an NHL franchise successful.

Instead, there is a beautiful new arena in Quebec, sponsored by the media company that just paid the NHL $120 Million for NHL broadcast rights in that province. They need a team to come from somewhere, and there is no other team that is unviable as the Panthers.

 

[Acesolid]

Some of you guys are too impatient. I personally don't care if it's an expansion or relocation team. As long as it happens during the next 8 years (like with Winnipeg) I'll be extremely happy.

In the meantime, with the Remparts I'll be very happy. And the other thing I hope for with all my being is for more boxing events like the "Kovalev VS Pascal" event this week-end in Mtl. I know events like this filled the old Colisee in the past (and I was there!). But weren't tried again because of it's "décrépitude".

But I know major MMA/Boxing events can and will fill the new Colisee and that's what I really want to see before the arrival of an NHL team!

 

[Glacial]

Would there be anything potentially in the Boca Raton meeting in a few days or is that a coincidence with the odd lag in announcing concert bookings noted in the previous Nordique megathread thread?

 

[Fenway]

The Panthers fighting for a playoff spot had a long homestand and from all accounts the team had no major advertising push to entice fans to check it out.

Viola gives the impression of being sincere in making it work but it seems the team is stuck with about 10K loyal hardcore fans and TV numbers that are embarrassingly low.

I expect them to remain in Florida for next season but beyond that I have my doubts.

At the game I went to last week, they played the Canadian and US anthems off of a terrible recording - how difficult is it to get an actual anthem singer? The cheerleaders are gone, and the "Rat Pack" looks like a bunch of local kids with nothing better to do.

I've never claimed this to be based on anything more than my own opinion. I'm not friends with Viola, but it does not take a genius to attend a Panthers game and see the complete lack of local support. There is a small group of loyal fans, but that is not what makes an NHL franchise successful.

Instead, there is a beautiful new arena in Quebec, sponsored by the media company that just paid the NHL $120 Million for NHL broadcast rights in that province. They need a team to come from somewhere, and there is no other team that is unviable as the Panthers.

 

[FlaPantherSwe*]

Or we just give them a expansion more money for everyone.. Move Columbus back to west or just have Qubecc play in west for a season or two

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

At the game I went to last week, they played the Canadian and US anthems off of a terrible recording - how difficult is it to get an actual anthem singer? The cheerleaders are gone, and the "Rat Pack" looks like a bunch of local kids with nothing better to do.

I've never claimed this to be based on anything more than my own opinion. I'm not friends with Viola, but it does not take a genius to attend a Panthers game and see the complete lack of local support. There is a small group of loyal fans, but that is not what makes an NHL franchise successful.

Instead, there is a beautiful new arena in Quebec, sponsored by the media company that just paid the NHL $120 Million for NHL broadcast rights in that province. They need a team to come from somewhere, and there is no other team that is unviable as the Panthers.

I reply with what I feel are valid counter arguments and you just ignore them and say they played canned anthems, they're done? The cheerleaders were removed because of complaints by patrons.

The whole their attendance is crap argument is useless at this point, paid attendance is the same it's been the previous decade. You have not made a point that couldn't have been made in 2004. Team's still here.

The Panthers fighting for a playoff spot had a long homestand and from all accounts the team had no major advertising push to entice fans to check it out.

Viola gives the impression of being sincere in making it work but it seems the team is stuck with about 10K loyal hardcore fans and TV numbers that are embarrassingly low.

I expect them to remain in Florida for next season but beyond that I have my doubts.

You cannot backtrack and say they'll remain in Florida next season after it's become impossible for them to be moved this year, when you earlier said they're done.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=89841621&postcount=36

I do think 12 months from now a team will move to Quebec.

And I will bet every penny I have it does. Once that arena goes online somebody will jump....Either Florida, Carolina or Nashville.

That's you in September 2014. And look, no NHL team will be there 12 months after you made that comment. I'll be back in September when something noteworthy with the Panthers actually happens, and I'll have my avatar ready for you.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

Also, my apologies to Killion, who I got mixed up with Fenway. Now I'm done

 

[gstommylee]

Or we just give them a expansion more money for everyone.. Move Columbus back to west or just have Qubecc play in west for a season or two

I doubt there would be much support for either of those 2 options. I think there are two scenarios i see with Quebec getting a team. Seattle & vegas expansion, quebec later gets the panthers or Seatte & Quebec expansion with Vegas getting the panthers with all announcements happening within a short period of each other.

 

[Fenway]

You cannot backtrack and say they'll remain in Florida next season after it's become impossible for them to be moved this year, when you earlier said they're done.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=89841621&postcount=36


That's you in September 2014. And look, no NHL team will be there 12 months after you made that comment. I'll be back in September when something noteworthy with the Panthers actually happens, and I'll have my avatar ready for you.

Also, my apologies to Killion, who I got mixed up with Fenway. Now I'm done

Seriously - I still think there is a 25% chance Quebec will have a team next fall.

Once that arena is online something will happen.

 

[gstommylee]

Seriously - I still think there is a 25% chance Quebec will have a team next fall.

Once that arena is online something will happen.

25% of Quebec getting team via expansion or a team in general rather thats expansion or relocation?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Seriously - I still think there is a 25% chance Quebec will have a team next fall.

Once that arena is online something will happen.

try none, Fenway, the prime tenant is the Rermparts, and what NHL franchise realistically IS available, if Sunrise Sports/Entertainment owns both the franchise and the BB& T Center, why would that arena become a "White elephant"?

Quebec disdained the Montreal owned franchise based off the rivalry, and what exactly changes whether or not Quebec returns to hockey, professionally, imho, there's not enough of a fanbase to sustain a Nordiques 2, and where was the new COLISEE for Monsieur Aubut, if that had been done, would Denver have the Avalanche?

 

[FlaPantherSwe*]

try none, Fenway, the prime tenant is the Rermparts, and what NHL franchise realistically IS available, if Sunrise Sports/Entertainment owns both the franchise and the BB& T Center, why would that arena become a "White elephant"?

Quebec disdained the Montreal owned franchise based off the rivalry, and what exactly changes whether or not Quebec returns to hockey, professionally, imho, there's not enough of a fanbase to sustain a Nordiques 2, and where was the new COLISEE for Monsieur Aubut, if that had been done, would Denver have the Avalanche?

Qubecc will get a team that i am sure of however im not convinced it will be the Panthers any time soon. The Panthers owners despite popular opinion do not lose allot of money they at worst break even. This is due to the fact of the profits from the arena outside hockey.. its year two of ownership and we are trendig to be compatitive.. When the winning becomes consistent the more fair weather fans will show up.. If Tampa can make it work i see no reason why we cant.. what happens if Ducks, Tampa, Nashville gets into a long slump? Or dare i say Pens when no longer crosby or malkin plays, can they survive without generational talent? Well 2000-2005 indicated they will have big problems.. are we going to relocate on a regular basis? What kind of massage does that send? Nashville have been in relocation talks 2 times the last 10 years but look at them now..

Outside of canada we cant depend on hardcores such as ourselfs on this board.. Hockey in US even in its biggest markets are driven by winning even 06 teams are affected by this see case Hawks.. What i am not saying is that you need to win 24/7 to draw a crowd thats not sustainable.. But a period of consistent winning can in fact put the seeds down for fanbase growth.. The Panthers are the joke of NA sports the last 15 years and the one consistent problem have been two things bad owners with no money... despite that 10k shows upp.. Like i said we are trending for the first time since 1996 in the right direction.. The question i ask is is it really impossible for this team to excist without even knowing what consistemt winning might actually do? If winning consistent will not improve attendence then by all means move them to Qubecc.. But it feels like allot of you jump the gun way to fast..

 

[Nordskull]

Some of you guys are too impatient. I personally don't care if it's an expansion or relocation team. As long as it happens during the next 8 years (like with Winnipeg) I'll be extremely happy.

In the meantime, with the Remparts I'll be very happy. And the other thing I hope for with all my being is for more boxing events like the "Kovalev VS Pascal" event this week-end in Mtl. I know events like this filled the old Colisee in the past (and I was there!). But weren't tried again because of it's "décrépitude".

But I know major MMA/Boxing events can and will fill the new Colisee and that's what I really want to see before the arrival of an NHL team!

are u serious friend?

Anyways, me thinks Qcor want the team ASAP.

 

[Ugmo]

L'espere?

J'espère, maybe, but l'espere, that doesn't mean anything.

it should be: L'espoir!

I like how every Nordiques thread starts out the same... with some dodgy French that requires cleaning up.

 

[Nordskull]

I like how every Nordiques thread starts out the same... with some dodgy French that requires cleaning up.

Give'em credit, in the end, they're so close to perfection

Vous êtes cool guys!

 

[MiamiHockey]

Would there be anything potentially in the Boca Raton meeting in a few days or is that a coincidence with the odd lag in announcing concert bookings noted in the previous Nordique megathread thread?

I believe that Boca Raton is the GM meetings, and franchise relocation is beyond the level of the GMs. Any such vote is held by the Board of Governors - a separate group.

 

[MiamiHockey]

try none, Fenway, the prime tenant is the Rermparts, and what NHL franchise realistically IS available, if Sunrise Sports/Entertainment owns both the franchise and the BB& T Center, why would that arena become a "White elephant"?

Quebec disdained the Montreal owned franchise based off the rivalry, and what exactly changes whether or not Quebec returns to hockey, professionally, imho, there's not enough of a fanbase to sustain a Nordiques 2, and where was the new COLISEE for Monsieur Aubut, if that had been done, would Denver have the Avalanche?

Given that everything you predicted about AHL movement west has proven to be wrong, I take your above comments as the surest sign that a team will be in Quebec next season.

 

[MiamiHockey]

I reply with what I feel are valid counter arguments and you just ignore them and say they played canned anthems, they're done? The cheerleaders were removed because of complaints by patrons.

The whole their attendance is crap argument is useless at this point, paid attendance is the same it's been the previous decade. You have not made a point that couldn't have been made in 2004. Team's still here.

Your points simply consisted of disagreeing with me, so what should I say in retort?

Yes, attendance has always been poor and the Panthers are still here. Yes, this is Season 1 of Viola's re(birth/brand/start) of the Panthers and so we should not interpret the ongoing lack of marketing and customer service as indicating anything different.

Here's the difference between now and every other season:

There's a beautiful arena being finished in the heart of a ravenous hockey fanbase, and it's sponsored by a massive corporation that just lined the NHL's pockets with 120M to broadcast NHL games to that fanbase. That may be the only thing that's changed, BUT it's a massive, massive change.

There is not a single, rational person out there who would argue that a team in Florida would be as profitable as a team in Quebec. Sorry, but it's just not true.

So, what would inspire the NHL to keep the Panthers in Florida AND an NHL arena empty in Quebec? I'd like to hear your response to that question.

 

[FlaPantherSwe*]

Your points simply consisted of disagreeing with me, so what should I say in retort?

Yes, attendance has always been poor and the Panthers are still here. Yes, this is Season 1 of Viola's re(birth/brand/start) of the Panthers and so we should not interpret the ongoing lack of marketing and customer service as indicating anything different.

Here's the difference between now and every other season:

There's a beautiful arena being finished in the heart of a ravenous hockey fanbase, and it's sponsored by a massive corporation that just lined the NHL's pockets with 120M to broadcast NHL games to that fanbase. That may be the only thing that's changed, BUT it's a massive, massive change.

There is not a single, rational person out there who would argue that a team in Florida would be as profitable as a team in Quebec. Sorry, but it's just not true.

So, what would inspire the NHL to keep the Panthers in Florida AND an NHL arena empty in Quebec? I'd like to hear your response to that question.

5,5,million market, more money in Florida as a state, more buissness partners, Montreal alrdy having majority of Qubecc market, shall i go on?

 

[Nordskull]

5,5,million market, more money in Florida as a state, more buissness partners, Montreal alrdy having majority of Qubecc market, shall i go on?

QC-Mtl is same distance then Sunrise-Tampa.

Friendly saying, many are wrong on this, Qc is a new market, not habs' one.

I think evidence is there's is simply no fan support for Panthers. In pro sports, big profits are made by buying and selling franchises. Exactly what's Viola could be contemplating when he bought the team.

 

[FlaPantherSwe*]

Whats the distance between Tampa and Sunrise?

Enough to have Dolphins-Buccaners, Rays-Marlins, Panthers-Tampa and Orlando close to Tampa-Heat i would say its to seperate markets compared to Qubecc/Montreal

 

[Nordskull]

Enough to have Dolphins-Buccaners, Rays-Marlins, Panthers-Tampa and Orlando close to Tampa-Heat i would say its to seperate markets compared to Qubecc/Montreal

Yes but I mean, you talking traditional south sports.

Like there certainly could be 2 NHL teams in Toronto but one struggling NBA franchise is enough. Or theres enough place for Buccs'n'Dolphins in FLA but you know NHL is still a somewhat bizarre venture south USA, not everywhere but certainly PHX is not settled.

Viola knows damn well he can make up to 100M profits selling to Qc.

I certainly agree, I have no particular secret info lol.

Time will tell.

 

[Acesolid]

are u serious friend?

Anyways, me thinks Qcor want the team ASAP.

They do, and they will get the team. But they only will get it when the opportunity arrives.

And that might be this summer, or in years. Expansion/Relocation could happen at almost any off-season at this point.

We'll see! But we have to be patient!

 

[FlaPantherSwe*]

Also If thats true why the hell would the last ownership sell with discount rather then wait it out Viola is on soon year 2.. not like arena thoughts in Qubecc came out of nowhere