Speculation: Laviolette/Mike Babcock
- Thread starter maplepred
- Start date
Amazing how everyone here is supposedly "stale" except the guy here the longest....GM Poile.
Maybe he has gotten stale and it's time for new blood there, and no, not his hand picked son who he wants to succeed him.
Poile is the ultimate say on the team. So....I know this goes against Pred Homer Pledge of Allegiance, but I say it's maybe time to look at the guy who hired Lavy and actually put this team together, traded Seth Jones, signed Turis to a nobody will take mega contract, and has gutted the farm team.
Maybe he has gotten stale and it's time for new blood there, and no, not his hand picked son who he wants to succeed him.
Poile is the ultimate say on the team. So....I know this goes against Pred Homer Pledge of Allegiance, but I say it's maybe time to look at the guy who hired Lavy and actually put this team together, traded Seth Jones, signed Turis to a nobody will take mega contract, and has gutted the farm team.
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
Poile trades for PK .. then trades him away. Brings in Johansen, Turris, and Duchene. Gives a rookie like Fabbro a shot in the top 4.
Where is the staleness in that?
When discussing Turris ... let's talk fact and real stats. We can then compare those to other players on the team and at similar pay levels on other teams. It beats the usual opinion based ranting here.
Where is the staleness in that?
When discussing Turris ... let's talk fact and real stats. We can then compare those to other players on the team and at similar pay levels on other teams. It beats the usual opinion based ranting here.
Porter Stoutheart
We Got Wood
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Poile's leash should get shorter the longer he fumbles the coaching ball, anyway. But I still can't take much issue with the way he has built this roster. He has assembled a lot of talent and made it sustainable with some great contracts. But that's of course only part of his job. If he fails to address the coaching issue it's all going for naught. And it's making some of his players look worse than they should.
I mean, we never have any real clue what guys like Kealty, Poile Jr, Nichol are really doing. Everybody thought Fenton was some kind of hotshot AGM who every other team coveted, and look at him now. Maybe Poile Jr really is worthy, maybe not - we'll never really know in advance - but the optics on him being handed the GM job in direct nepotistic succession would definitely not be good.
I mean, we never have any real clue what guys like Kealty, Poile Jr, Nichol are really doing. Everybody thought Fenton was some kind of hotshot AGM who every other team coveted, and look at him now. Maybe Poile Jr really is worthy, maybe not - we'll never really know in advance - but the optics on him being handed the GM job in direct nepotistic succession would definitely not be good.
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
The difference in outcome between October and November is stark. A month ago this team was in the middle of a four game win, six game point streak, led the league in goals per game, and sat at/near the top of division standing ... about a 113 point pace through October. The PK had issues but wasn't allowing five goals a game. A month ago is also the last time Arvy scored at even strength.
Halloween rolls around and the top six forgets how to score, the PK goes from having issues to abysmal, Pekka goes from two shutouts in three games to getting pulled all too frequently. Bonino became our only consistent scorer.
This binary output is frustrating. (I'm trying to be nice while drinking Weihnachtsbier).
Halloween rolls around and the top six forgets how to score, the PK goes from having issues to abysmal, Pekka goes from two shutouts in three games to getting pulled all too frequently. Bonino became our only consistent scorer.
This binary output is frustrating. (I'm trying to be nice while drinking Weihnachtsbier).
BigFatCat999
First Fubu and now Pred303. !@#$! you cancer
Here's why I think Laviolette is getting a pass so far from management: Poile knew that something wasn't quite right about this team, but wanted to see how the Duchene and Fabbro changes look before making any moves. He's given it 20 games and can't be happy with the results, I would expect a fairly significant trade or two to happen in the next few days. IMO we need a partner for Josi, someone who can play with Duchene not named Forsberg, and a bit more nastiness in the forward group. If Poile can fix those issues and the team is still struggling, then I am all for canning Laviolette. Until then it looks to me like there is enough blame to go around that no one should be bearing the brunt of it. GM, coaches and players all are contributing to our suck right now.
The Leafs will pay him $5.875 million a year for the next 3 1/2 years. If another team hires him, the amount they offer is taken out of what Toronto pays him.
So if he signs with another team for $4 million, then the Leafs only pay him $1.875.
Porter Stoutheart
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Should make it a little easier to hire him, then. If he's getting his $5.875M no matter what, at least nobody has to beat his Leafs salary to get him off the beach.
Sutter may still be the more popular choice but may not want to coach anymore. If you essentially just assume the Babcock deal and pay $3-4M for this year and 3 more, and leave the Leafs on the hook for the rest, it's not necessarily an insurmountable barrier to hiring him anyway.
maplepred
Go Preds Go!!
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You said Babcock was the PK Subban of coaches. Just confused what you meant?
Subban was a very good defenseman when here, does a ton of charity work and is an excellent ambassador to the game. He would still be here if it wasn’t for his large contract.
You were referring to Babcock being Subban of coaches in a negative way. Just wasn’t sure what you were referring to.
Porter Stoutheart
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I get the sense that Babcock has a fair amount of ego and is by no means shy of the camera, if that's the complaint. He will push players and he's not really looking for their feedback - he wants them to play the way he tells them to play, end of story. Whereas I get the sense that Lavy is a lot more open to discussion. But maybe having somebody come in and be more of a dictator would be good for the team, I don't know. These are the kinds of things that are so hard to predict. Until you see how it actually plays out. By which time it is too late.
Definitely not an easy job for a GM to make those decisions - gambles really, especially if he gets on well with his current coach. Poile has not had to make too many of those decisions.
Definitely not an easy job for a GM to make those decisions - gambles really, especially if he gets on well with his current coach. Poile has not had to make too many of those decisions.
Legionnaire11
Registered User
One think I keep thinking about is the owners. We know they're not hockey minds, but they're definitely business men. And while they have always chosen to defer to Poile, how long do they tolerate $6M sitting in the press box?
Put it another way, Laviolette makes less than Turris, and punting his salary plus whatever a new coach would cost is still likely less costly than scratching Turris. They probably also don't want to retain $2-3M on Turris for the next 4 years. Both of those options are dead cap space and weakens the roster and thus the bottom line (gate, concessions, merchandise).
Fiscally, firing Laviolette makes more sense than letting him waste another season and a half of being unable to make the necessary scheme corrections on the ice. Am I totally wrong on this line of thinking?
Put it another way, Laviolette makes less than Turris, and punting his salary plus whatever a new coach would cost is still likely less costly than scratching Turris. They probably also don't want to retain $2-3M on Turris for the next 4 years. Both of those options are dead cap space and weakens the roster and thus the bottom line (gate, concessions, merchandise).
Fiscally, firing Laviolette makes more sense than letting him waste another season and a half of being unable to make the necessary scheme corrections on the ice. Am I totally wrong on this line of thinking?
Armourboy
Hey! You suck!
Might be a bit of a fringe idea but I don't think you are off base. I guess it really comes down to how much the owners really want to be involved in team decisions. This group has always seemed to be pretty hands off, but then again as you said you are dealing with their money in this case so who knows how they take that.
In the past I think it's very much something that I think could have been up for consideration, but I'm not sure now just how much it really matters as long as things don't get too crazy. They have allowed him to bonus load some contracts so certainly things probably aren't nearly as tight as we all assume.
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This. The guy obviously helped a PP that the three other dolts behind the bench couldnt. I'd fire the three and make him interim for the rest of the year and see how he does.
I was an ardent supporter of Subban while he was here. BUT I can equally concede that he is a lover of the spotlight, wants to make moments about him in some cases, and that is what I observe when watching Mike Babcock.
FossilFndr
RIP Steve
Businessmen who are not fans would be happy with sellouts, every game. Bridgestone arena NHL Capacity is listed as 17,113. So they would be happy if the number is approaching that.
Well they must be elated, average home attendance is 17,360, 247 above capacity.
Are there accurate figures of how many STH's there are? Or how many public tickets are available? Well STH's are locked in so the only variable is single game tickets and it sure looks like that's not currently a problem.
Yes I know that ticket sales are not the only income stream but is a place to start. But providing a product that sells out the arena would not inspire change.
The 2 poorest attended games were the last two, but both were over arena capacity, but less than 60 over capacity. The highest attendance was second game of the year against Detroit, 426 over capacity.
What would drive the revenue down enough for the owners to force a change?
My brother is a borderline genius and a big sports fan. He has said "don't fire a coach until you can hire somebody that is demonstrably better!"
To me that says wait until the end of the season. If the Preds continue as is, fire Lavi and draw from the pool of the 5 or 6 other fired NHL coaches, plus available AHL coaches. BTW, the Admirals have won 9 games in a row and currently lead the AHL with 29 points under Karl Taylor.
To me that says wait until the end of the season. If the Preds continue as is, fire Lavi and draw from the pool of the 5 or 6 other fired NHL coaches, plus available AHL coaches. BTW, the Admirals have won 9 games in a row and currently lead the AHL with 29 points under Karl Taylor.
maplepred
Go Preds Go!!
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I guess I see your point there. But I mean if he’s a stud like subban and does as much for the game as him I can live with someone with that pedigree wanting the spotlight. As long as there is results on the ice.
Legionnaire11
Registered User
The main boards has an article about the topic of coaches having early success...
Why Fire Your Coach? Because New Coaches Win the Most
Why Fire Your Coach? Because New Coaches Win the Most
Legionnaire11
Registered User
and in the comments on said article is a link to this blog post about firing coaches...
The Data Science of Firing Your Hockey Coach
The Data Science of Firing Your Hockey Coach
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
Bordeleau and Scuderi are buried in the staff as position developmental coaches, Taylor and Nichol at Milwaukee. Wiping the current coaches and sticking with what is in the organization for interim staff is very high risk ... but there are people.
Or we could try to ruin Canada's self image and put Cherry and Crisp behind the bench together ... curmudgeon coaching. We would need to bring back McCleod for requisite toughness in that situation.
Nichol may be our GM in Milwaukee, but he is your Assistant GM in Nashville. He should not count in your list. They only reason he is here is because he is assigned by Nashville.
Porter Stoutheart
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Babcock is definitely not drawing a lot of praise for that Marner story. If Commodore isn't at total nutjob and any of this is true, it's basically "avoid at all costs".
JustaFinnishGuy
Joonas Donskoi avi but not a SEA fan ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Commodore didn't exactly articulate the problems, he was more interested in getting his shots in whenever he could in that interview I listened to. But it doesn't really paint a good picture of Babcock.
Anyways, I really don't think we need a coach who sits his best players just to play Zach f***ing Hyman more.
