Lars Eller

[Sorinth]

People want Eller to play with more talented wingers such as pacioretty/Galchenyuk. Some have said to re-unite EGG line on many occasions.

People also want Galchenyuk as a C getting top 6 minutes. Given that, that's the ONLY combination possible, Eller would need to play wing.

OR

People need to get over Eller getting 'offensive minutes' and realize he's our 3rd line center.

It seems people want the best of both worlds here but don't understand what exactly it implies...

Obviously, I'd rather Eller as a 3rd line C rather than 2nd line winger for multiple reasons. I would never promote a move to wing for him.

Truth be told that 2nd line looks like crap. There's more talent on the 3rd line even with Prust. If DD plays winger he should play wing to Eller and Galchenyuk should center PAP/Sekac and Gallagher(long time chemistry).

Your assuming when people make these comments they mean AND instead of OR. I'd be happy if Eller became our 2nd line center, I'd also be happy if Galchenyuk did, I want either to happen not both.

Your the only one whose suggested reuniting the EGG line AND making Galchenyuk C. I think for everyone else it was an either or.

You may not realize it but you're indeed proving my point. The general consensus is Eller should be in top 6 AND galchenyuk should be a C. The only way this is possible is if Eller is a winger or Galchenyuk is 3rd line C, therefore it is ridiculous.

I don't see how his post supports your. Nowhere did this guy say Eller needed to be in the top-6, he simply said you can't have Desharnais and Galchenyuk as centers because both are weak defensively.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

Your assuming when people make these comments they mean AND instead of OR. I'd be happy if Eller became our 2nd line center, I'd also be happy if Galchenyuk did, I want either to happen not both.

Your the only one whose suggested reuniting the EGG line AND making Galchenyuk C. I think for everyone else it was an either or.




I don't see how his post supports your. Nowhere did this guy say Eller needed to be in the top-6, he simply said you can't have Desharnais and Galchenyuk as centers because both are weak defensively.

Really not sure why this needs to be explained 1,000 times over and over

Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Eller should be our Centers, and I don't think anyone has argued that Eller should be promoted over Plekanec or Galchenyuk.

So Eller should be in the Top 6 if we're not gonna be serious about seeing what Galchenyuk can or cannot do there; conversely, he can stay on the 3rd line if Galchenyuk gets a look at C.

The issue is that we seem to have given up again on Galchenyuk playing Center (but next year 4shur, amirite!!) and we're not gonna give Eller a legitimate opportunity to produce, and for what? So DD can go from his current 44 point pace to a 51 point one? Really, what's the endstate of this move supposed to be?

 

[HabsDieHard*]

Really not sure why this needs to be explained 1,000 times over and over

Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Eller should be our Centers, and I don't think anyone has argued that Eller should be promoted over Plekanec or Galchenyuk.

So Eller should be in the Top 6 if we're not gonna be serious about seeing what Galchenyuk can or cannot do there; conversely, he can stay on the 3rd line if Galchenyuk gets a look at C.

The issue is that we seem to have given up again on Galchenyuk playing Center (but next year 4shur, amirite!!) and we're not gonna give Eller a legitimate opportunity to produce, and for what? So DD can go from his current 44 point pace to a 51 point one? Really, what's the endstate of this move supposed to be?

Very well put.

Plekanec/Eller along with Galchenyuk lets you give the tough assignments to them 2 and let him grow into the game.

I can't believe people think a Plekx/Galchenyuk/Desharnais trio would be worthwhile come playoff time.

It was bizarre last year when Eller was strugglign and it's even more bizarre after seeing what a force Eller was in the playoffs.

Desharnais gets all of the minutes that Galchenyuk should be, and he's not a good enough 2 way player to claim that it's his experience that makes it worthwhile either.

It's ****ed.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

Very well put.

Plekanec/Eller along with Galchenyuk lets you give the tough assignments to them 2 and let him grow into the game.

I can't believe people think a Plekx/Galchenyuk/Desharnais trio would be worthwhile come playoff time.

It was bizarre last year when Eller was strugglign and it's even more bizarre after seeing what a force Eller was in the playoffs.

Desharnais gets all of the minutes that Galchenyuk should be, and he's not a good enough 2 way player to claim that it's his experience that makes it worthwhile either.

It's ****ed.

Exactly.

In a similar vein, I will truly never understand the unending refrain of "...the more we play Galchenyuk on the wing, the better prepared he'll be to play Center one day!!" We should call up Tinordi and play him as #2C for 4 seasons, to ease him into the role of 2nd pairing defenseman for season #5...

 

[HabsDieHard*]

Exactly.

In a similar vein, I will truly never understand the unending refrain of "...the more we play Galchenyuk on the wing, the better prepared he'll be to play Center one day!!" We should call up Tinordi and play him as #2C for 4 seasons, to ease him into the role of 2nd pairing defenseman for season #5...

It's on par with claiming the team is 2-3 years away when they have 2 elite d-men, an elite goal scorer and a franchise hart trophy calibre goalie...

Sometimes I think that Bergevin and co. stumbled into a secretly great situation and are bumbling it very badly.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Your assuming when people make these comments they mean AND instead of OR. I'd be happy if Eller became our 2nd line center, I'd also be happy if Galchenyuk did, I want either to happen not both.

Your the only one whose suggested reuniting the EGG line AND making Galchenyuk C. I think for everyone else it was an either or.

I don't see how his post supports your. Nowhere did this guy say Eller needed to be in the top-6, he simply said you can't have Desharnais and Galchenyuk as centers because both are weak defensively.

We have some posters saying if Eller does not play offensive minutes he will not grow offensively and others saying Galchenyuk needs to play C or he will not develop. At this point you're speaking for the masses who contradict themselves and pretending they don't.

People will gladly say "I mean either! I swear" now that the stupidity is apparent. Who's going to admit "Wow, I clearly made no sense" when their back is against the wall?

There's no OR regarding statements such as:

"We are ruining Galchenyuk's ability to be a center by playing him wing" type of comments.

Along with:

"Eller is being mismanaged, is probably unhappy and we are ruining his offensive upside" on the side.

These comments imply BOTH are being mismanaged in their roles, not EITHER.

For example, we often hear "The faster Galchenyuk plays and learns C at the NHL level, the faster we'll be a contender. Anything else is short term thinking". Fair statement right? "Galchenyuk can play wing if Eller plays C on 2nd line" is long term thinking though? If you can explain how Eller can play C on Galchenyuk's line and we'd still be thinking long term I'd love to hear it, especially when Eller is destined to be 3rd in line after Plekanec and Galchenyuk even if DD were traded in 3 minutes. This does not even take into account Eller is not as great a player as people claim. He nor DD should be top 6 on a typical contender. Obviously, if your wingers are Ovechkin, Pacioretty, P.Kane, Hossa, etc... you'd make due but typically speaking neither are meant to be in that role long term.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

We have some posters saying if Eller does not play offensive minutes he will not grow offensively and others saying Galchenyuk needs to play C or he will not develop. At this point you're speaking for the masses who contradict themselves and pretending they don't.

People will gladly say "I mean either! I swear" now that the stupidity is apparent. Who's going to admit "Wow, I clearly made no sense" when their back is against the wall?

There's no OR regarding statements such as:

"We are ruining Galchenyuk's ability to be a center by playing him wing" type of comments.

Along with:

"Eller is being mismanaged, is probably unhappy and we are ruining his offensive upside" on the side.

These comments imply BOTH are being mismanaged in their roles, not EITHER.

For example, we often hear "The faster Galchenyuk plays and learns C at the NHL level, the faster we'll be a contender. Anything else is short term thinking". Fair statement right? "Galchenyuk can play wing if Eller plays C on 2nd line" is long term thinking though? If you can explain how Eller can play C on Galchenyuk's line and we'd still be thinking long term I'd love to hear it, especially when Eller is destined to be 3rd in line after Plekanec and Galchenyuk even if DD were traded in 3 minutes. This does not even take into account Eller is not as great a player as people claim. He nor DD should be top 6 on a typical contender. Obviously, if your wingers are Ovechkin, Pacioretty, P.Kane, Hossa, etc... you'd make due but typically speaking neither are meant to be in that role long term.

The self-righteousness of this post is rich, seeing as the VAST majority of your posts are filled with vacillating, contradictory, non-statements.

Let me make it really simple for you: people are willing to forgo Eller's offensive development if it's for the sake of seeing if Galchenyuk can develop into a legitimate 80+ point 1st line center.

Conversely, since the team has chosen NOT to take a chance on Galchenyuk (but they totally will next year, right, LL??) people are asking why we're not trying to develop a better offensive upside in a center who has already shown good defensive instincts.

Again, people are willing to sacrifice developing Eller into a legitimate 2-way center if the potential return is an elite 1st line Center, OR they're willing to be a bit more patient with moving Galchenyuk to C if we were using that time to refine / exploit Eller's offensive potential.

And you have the audacity to call that position "stupid"? You know what's stupid? Doing neither of those things so that we can instead transform a 28 year old Center from a 44 point pivot into GASP a 51 point pivot.

That's a plan's that's stupid.

So's the unrelenting defense of it.

 

[japhi]

Probably not. DD's limited skillset means that in order to get any production out of him, you have to line him up with top-6 wingers, give him plentiful PP time, and offensive zone starts. Even then, the best you can hope for is 40'ish points, maybe 50 if he gets lucky a lot.

Anaheim's top two centers are Ryan Getzlaf & Ryan Kesler. DD clearly isn't displacing either of those two from their roles, so he'll get zero PP time. He won't get the top wingers. He won't be the go-to guy in key offensive situations.

What role would that leave DD on Anaheim? As a third line center he'd be expected to hold his own defensively, and at best he's mediocre at that role, and chip in a little depth offense. Well he'd be skating with the likes of Palmieri & Smith-Pelly (or for the LOL of it, Rene Bourque!). Good luck getting 30 points out of him then, or expecting that role to take a hard shift against tough opposition.

Anaheim would probably try him for 10'ish games as #3C, then start looking for an upgrade. He'd get killed in a playoff series against the likes of the Sharks or Hawks in that role.

You either missed the point or have been sleeping the past ten years. It's stupid to claim that we can't be a contender with DD in the lineup when all contending teams have gaps in their lineup. In a cap era and a league full of parity every team has players they would like to upgrade.

Anaheim can and is a contender with Cogliano (13 points in 51 games, small and soft and -6), and the Habs are a contender with DD. Switch the two players and their records would stay largely the same, in fact DD would be an upgrade on Cogs at C in Anaheim.

To suggest that we can't be a contender with DD on this team shows a lack of understanding of today's NHL.

I get it, he's short and looks goofy. His head is cartoonish large. Lars is tall and handsome. Both are in a group of 150 mediocre NHL players that play on contending and non contending teams, and neither move the needle one way or the other.

We need a true #1 C and everything else falls in place.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

You either missed the point or have been sleeping the past ten years. It's stupid to claim that we can't be a contender with DD in the lineup when all contending teams have gaps in their lineup. In a cap era and a league full of parity every team has players they would like to upgrade.

Anaheim can and is a contender with Cogliano (13 points in 51 games, small and soft and -6), and the Habs are a contender with DD. Switch the two players and their records would stay largely the same, in fact DD would be an upgrade on Cogs at C in Anaheim.

To suggest that we can't be a contender with DD on this team shows a lack of understanding of today's NHL.

I get it, he's short and looks goofy. His head is cartoonish large. Lars is tall and handsome. Both are in a group of 150 mediocre NHL players that play on contending and non contending teams, and neither move the needle one way or the other.

We need a true #1 C and everything else falls in place.

Cogliano averages 13:15 a game and a whopping 6 seconds on the PP; simply put, Anaheim hasn't built their offensive game plan around Cogliano.

 

[Sorinth]

We have some posters saying if Eller does not play offensive minutes he will not grow offensively and others saying Galchenyuk needs to play C or he will not develop. At this point you're speaking for the masses who contradict themselves and pretending they don't.

People will gladly say "I mean either! I swear" now that the stupidity is apparent. Who's going to admit "Wow, I clearly made no sense" when their back is against the wall?

There's no OR regarding statements such as:

"We are ruining Galchenyuk's ability to be a center by playing him wing" type of comments.

Along with:

"Eller is being mismanaged, is probably unhappy and we are ruining his offensive upside" on the side.

These comments imply BOTH are being mismanaged in their roles, not EITHER.

For example, we often hear "The faster Galchenyuk plays and learns C at the NHL level, the faster we'll be a contender. Anything else is short term thinking". Fair statement right? "Galchenyuk can play wing if Eller plays C on 2nd line" is long term thinking though? If you can explain how Eller can play C on Galchenyuk's line and we'd still be thinking long term I'd love to hear it, especially when Eller is destined to be 3rd in line after Plekanec and Galchenyuk even if DD were traded in 3 minutes. This does not even take into account Eller is not as great a player as people claim. He nor DD should be top 6 on a typical contender. Obviously, if your wingers are Ovechkin, Pacioretty, P.Kane, Hossa, etc... you'd make due but typically speaking neither are meant to be in that role long term.

Both can still be true, without someone demanding both be fixed.

If Galchenyuk was 2nd line center, you wouldn't see people complaining about Eller's offensive upside. It would still be true that we aren't fully tapping his offensive upside, but because we would be tapping an even bigger offensive potential in Galchenyuk nobody would complain.

In fact when Galchenyuk was moved to center, the DD vs Eller stuff died down tremendously. It didn't transform into a Galchenyuk vs Eller or Plekanec vs Eller. That should be proof enough that it wasn't people demanding both.

 

[japhi]

Cogliano averages 13:15 a game and a whopping 6 seconds on the PP; simply put, Anaheim hasn't built their offensive game plan around Cogliano.

Try and follow along please.

The suggestion was that the Habs could not contend with DD in the lineup. Full stop, declaration, we can not contend with DD anywhere in the lineup.

Aside from the fact that we have contended with DD - top 4 puts a team in contention, by any definition - I'm pretty certain that DD in those 13 mins in Anaheim doesn't make them a worse team. They would still be a contender, as are we right now. As mentioned, every contending team has pieces that are not ideal, it's impossible to be stacked top to bottom in a cap league.

I've already agreed that we need DD AND Lars out of the top 6, and need a real #1 C, which would bump Lars and DD down to 3/4th, and I couldn't care less where each plays. I don't have any love for either player, both are mediocre NHLrs.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

You either missed the point or have been sleeping the past ten years. It's stupid to claim that we can't be a contender with DD in the lineup when all contending teams have gaps in their lineup. In a cap era and a league full of parity every team has players they would like to upgrade.

Anaheim can and is a contender with Cogliano (13 points in 51 games, small and soft and -6), and the Habs are a contender with DD. Switch the two players and their records would stay largely the same, in fact DD would be an upgrade on Cogs at C in Anaheim.

To suggest that we can't be a contender with DD on this team shows a lack of understanding of today's NHL.

I get it, he's short and looks goofy. His head is cartoonish large. Lars is tall and handsome. Both are in a group of 150 mediocre NHL players that play on contending and non contending teams, and neither move the needle one way or the other.

We need a true #1 C and everything else falls in place.

Lol spoken like someone who only looks at the stat box and makes their assessmetn b ased on that.

Coliagno plays 1:41 on the PK per game and just 7 seconds per game on the power play.

He is a depth player who does well in a defensive role and has value to them even if he's not putting up big numbers.

Contrast that with Desharnais, who barely gets any PK time and is a main stay on the power play.

They are polar opposite players.

What a logic lacking comparison. Maybe you're the one who hasn't been paying attention for the last 10 years.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

Try and follow along please.

The suggestion was that the Habs could not contend with DD in the lineup. Full stop, declaration, we can not contend with DD anywhere in the lineup.

Aside from the fact that we have contented with DD - top 4 puts a team in contention, by any definition - I'm pretty certain that DD in those 13 mins in Anaheim doesn't make them a worse team. They would still be a contender, as are we right not. As mentioned, every contending team has pieces that are not ideal, it's impossible to be stacked top to bottom in a cap league.

I've already agreed that we need DD AND Lars out of the top 6, and need a real #1 C, which would bump Lars and DD down to 3/4th, and I couldn't care less where each plays. I don't have any love for either player, both are mediocre NHLrs.

There is nothing more amusing than condescending remarks from people who don't know what the hell they're talking about.



The issue is with using Dehsarnais in a scoring line role with the teams' best winger.

Not that he has any spot on the team.

In fact many have said they liked him on the wing.

Cogliano is employed by the Ducks as a depth forward who plays in a defensive role.

That you are unable to differentiate between Desharnais and Cogliano is amusing, but all of the "try to keep up"-esque condescending remarks aren't going to change the fact that it's obvious to all you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

Try and follow along please.

The suggestion was that the Habs could not contend with DD in the lineup. Full stop, declaration, we can not contend with DD anywhere in the lineup.

Aside from the fact that we have contented with DD - top 4 puts a team in contention, by any definition - I'm pretty certain that DD in those 13 mins in Anaheim doesn't make them a worse team. They would still be a contender, as are we right not. As mentioned, every contending team has pieces that are not ideal, it's impossible to be stacked top to bottom in a cap league.

I've already agreed that we need DD AND Lars out of the top 6, and need a real #1 C, which would bump Lars and DD down to 3/4th, and I couldn't care less where each plays. I don't have any love for either player, both are mediocre NHLrs.

Cogliano has half as many points as DD getting what, 10% of DDs opportunities? How productive do you think DD would be in Cogliano's role, exactly, especially taking on Cog's PK duties?

Also, to be blunt, this "point" of yours:

Try and follow along please.

The suggestion was that the Habs could not contend with DD in the lineup. Full stop, declaration, we can not contend with DD anywhere in the lineup.

...is quintessential internet debate nonsense. It was perfectly clear that when people refer to "DD in the lineup" they mean "in a manner that influences the game to some greater or lesser degree".

But congratulations on proving that the Habs could compete with Desharnais scratched, or getting 5 seconds a game, or whatever nonsense you interpreted the original post as meaning.

 

[japhi]

Here is where we started. One guy says this:

"Eller is a bottom-6 guy on a contending team.

DD has no place on a contending team.

Big difference."

He actually highlighted no, so I assumed that he meant no and not "well maybe on the wing or bottom six, or in a different role". Maybe he can clarify so you guys can settle down a bit, but according to my understanding of the English language no means....uhh...no.

I then point out that every contending team has guys like DD in the bottom six. I also point out that DD and Lars need to be in the bottom 6.

You guys respond with:

"It was perfectly clear that when people refer to "DD in the lineup" they mean "in a manner that influences the game to some greater or lesser degree".

and another gem:

"The issue is with using Dehsarnais in a scoring line role with the teams' best winger.

Not that he has any spot on the team"

For christ sakes I've agreed with both of those points, somehow you must have missed quoting them in your quoting frenzy.

So once again, if you are going to get into it with me let's please try and stay on track. Do I need to summarize again that the guy I was responding to was clear that he believes that DD has NO role on a contending team?

Not trying to be condescending but these forums are impossible to debate on, you guys jump in so quick and move the goal posts from "DD can't play any role on a contending team" to "no one says DD can't have a role on a contending team" and get all huffy when someone asks you to slow down and read what's being discussed.

I'd love to talk hockey but this forum is full of Hockey Dads, if you played you know what I'm talking about. Their kid is always better than some other kid, and if he only got more icetime he would maybe play for the Pats one day. Very little perspective, and a whole lot of emotion.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Both can still be true, without someone demanding both be fixed.

If Galchenyuk was 2nd line center, you wouldn't see people complaining about Eller's offensive upside. It would still be true that we aren't fully tapping his offensive upside, but because we would be tapping an even bigger offensive potential in Galchenyuk nobody would complain.

In fact when Galchenyuk was moved to center, the DD vs Eller stuff died down tremendously. It didn't transform into a Galchenyuk vs Eller or Plekanec vs Eller. That should be proof enough that it wasn't people demanding both.

I'll entertain the idea that Eller has legit offensive upside for this post even though I pretty much disagree with the notion.

Actually, when Galchenyuk was moved to center the reason it died down is because Eller was injured. The conversation then became DD should play wing rather than Eller and so he did. Then DD played 2nd line wing(then 2nd line C) and Eller hasn't produced anything in last 11 games(0 pts, -5, 17 shots).

Since returning to center (vs the Islanders) DD has 7GP 2G, 4A, 6PTS +5 yet we talk about 'opportunity cost'.

When DD scores 2 points vs a bottom feeder we get the "DD does well against **** teams" when Eller goes -3 against the SAME team we get "opportunity cost".

Yeah, at this moment, putting Eller on the EGG line is a possibility. I've advocated it being a good choice to jump start Eller as well and putting DD to the 3rd. I'd just disagree that Eller on the 2nd line C is conducive to some 'long term thinking'.

All this being said, DD and eller should both be on 3rd line with Eller as C. When I asked the question, I even said "I'm not suggesting Eller as a 2nd line winger" I was just gauging how people will drop the Galchenyuk debate for an also offensively limited(if not more so) Lars Eller.

 

[ECWHSWI]

This is some flawed analysis and here's why, Weise didn't play on the bottom 6 for all the games, therefore his total amount of points in a bottom 6 role will be lower than those players who play in the bottom 6 all the time. But I get your point, of course playing with Pacioretty will inflate anyone's numbers, even Eller's.

But Eller dosen't deserve to be promoted right now. He's probably snakebitten or something, he has scoring chances but isn't able to score or make a damn pass, hopefully he recovers for the playoffs. We need him.

actually, you're not getting the point at all...

he played bottom 6 for what, 25, 30 games ?

he got 4 points in those 25, 30 games... a 10 / 12 points pace over a full season...

that's very average for a 4th liner...


so him being an average -> 4th liner... got him a promotion to the 1st line ??????

 

[OnTheRun]

Gaston Therrien published his 5th "bulletin" yesterday. http://www.rds.ca/hockey/canadiens/bulletin-du-canadien-après-50-matchs-1.2134903
Since the guy is an authority on the subject... We need to use his wisdom in the debate.

Lars Eller – 50% : TRÈS décevant

as for Eller's eternal nemesis:
David Desharnais – 75% : On l’a changé de position mais il a conitinué à travailler sans se plaindre

Should we trade Eller and bet on DD's conitinuation?

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Gaston Therrien published his 5th "bulletin" yesterday. http://www.rds.ca/hockey/canadiens/bulletin-du-canadien-après-50-matchs-1.2134903
Since the guy is an authority on the subject... We need to use his wisdom in the debate.

Lars Eller – 50% : TRÈS décevant

as for Eller's eternal nemesis:
David Desharnais – 75% : On l’a changé de position mais il a conitinué à travailler sans se plaindre

Should we trade Eller and bet on DD's conitinuation?

Didn't read it, not sure why you did. Gaston is terrible.

 

[OnTheRun]

Didn't read it, not sure why you did. Gaston is terrible.

I was looking for the lines used during the practice this morning and...

 

[Nynja*]

I was looking for the lines used during the practice this morning and...

DD on #1C should be all you need to know and be sufficient motivation to not look deeper.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I was looking for the lines used during the practice this morning and...

Fair enough but generally speaking writing about sports is almost a free exercise, so many bloggers and many of which are talented. Don't reduce yourself to RDS 'analysts'.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

I'll entertain the idea that Eller has legit offensive upside for this post even though I pretty much disagree with the notion.

Actually, when Galchenyuk was moved to center the reason it died down is because Eller was injured. The conversation then became DD should play wing rather than Eller and so he did. Then DD played 2nd line wing(then 2nd line C) and Eller hasn't produced anything in last 11 games(0 pts, -5, 17 shots).

Since returning to center (vs the Islanders) DD has 7GP 2G, 4A, 6PTS +5 yet we talk about 'opportunity cost'.

When DD scores 2 points vs a bottom feeder we get the "DD does well against **** teams" when Eller goes -3 against the SAME team we get "opportunity cost".

Yeah, at this moment, putting Eller on the EGG line is a possibility. I've advocated it being a good choice to jump start Eller as well and putting DD to the 3rd. I'd just disagree that Eller on the 2nd line C is conducive to some 'long term thinking'.

All this being said, DD and eller should both be on 3rd line with Eller as C. When I asked the question, I even said "I'm not suggesting Eller as a 2nd line winger" I was just gauging how people will drop the Galchenyuk debate for an also offensively limited(if not more so) Lars Eller.

What a solid argument!! Obviously, a 7 game sample size is incontrovertible!!

I also love this little nugget:

When DD scores 2 points vs a bottom feeder we get the "DD does well against **** teams" when Eller goes -3 against the SAME team we get "opportunity cost".

What a great conclusion to draw! I'm glad that both Eller and Desharnais played with the same linemates, and got the same ice time, cause that way we know it's talent level and not some other factor(s) that might have influenced their performances!!! I mean, can you imagine if they had had different line mates, and the ice time had been something like Eller getting 8:35 (0 PP) and Desharnais getting 17:06 (1:57 PP) vs. ARIZONA and Desharnais playing 19:42 (1:52 PP) and Eller 11:59 (0 PP) vs. PHOENIX?!?!

I mean, it might make your argument sound like an intellectually dishonest piece of tripe! But when you put together an argument based on 7 GP and 2 games with vastly different line mates, ice time, and usage, you definitely should feel confident arguing DD > LE

 

[groovejuice]

actually, you're not getting the point at all...

he played bottom 6 for what, 25, 30 games ?

he got 4 points in those 25, 30 games... a 10 / 12 points pace over a full season...

that's very average for a 4th liner...


so him being an average -> 4th liner... got him a promotion to the 1st line ??????

Well you're right of course, but we really can't disregard the impossibly horrible offensive year that Malholtra is having. His D is still top notch, but man he's dragging down the potential 4th line points.

 

[Hoople]

Here is where we started. One guy says this:

"Eller is a bottom-6 guy on a contending team.

DD has no place on a contending team.

Big difference."

He actually highlighted no, so I assumed that he meant no and not "well maybe on the wing or bottom six, or in a different role". Maybe he can clarify so you guys can settle down a bit, but according to my understanding of the English language no means....uhh...no.

I then point out that every contending team has guys like DD in the bottom six. I also point out that DD and Lars need to be in the bottom 6.

You guys respond with:

"It was perfectly clear that when people refer to "DD in the lineup" they mean "in a manner that influences the game to some greater or lesser degree".

and another gem:

"The issue is with using Dehsarnais in a scoring line role with the teams' best winger.

Not that he has any spot on the team"

For christ sakes I've agreed with both of those points, somehow you must have missed quoting them in your quoting frenzy.

So once again, if you are going to get into it with me let's please try and stay on track. Do I need to summarize again that the guy I was responding to was clear that he believes that DD has NO role on a contending team?

Not trying to be condescending but these forums are impossible to debate on, you guys jump in so quick and move the goal posts from "DD can't play any role on a contending team" to "no one says DD can't have a role on a contending team" and get all huffy when someone asks you to slow down and read what's being discussed.

I'd love to talk hockey but this forum is full of Hockey Dads, if you played you know what I'm talking about. Their kid is always better than some other kid, and if he only got more icetime he would maybe play for the Pats one day. Very little perspective, and a whole lot of emotion.

Great post.

Hockey MOMS would be more appropriate with the level of emotion here.

During my days of coaching youth sports, I always responded to complaints about usage, playing time etc with this statement....if you are unhappy, sign up next season to become a coach.

Same sentiment holds true here. It is obvious this forum is filled with professional coaches who are temporarily unemployed and are just killing time in between jobs. Good luck finding an NHL job coaching. The Leafs need help.

Again, great post that shines a bright light on why this forum is becoming more dysfunctional every day.