Lars Eller

[LyricalLyricist]

Has he failed in a top 6 role?

Define fail. Apart from 2012-13 which was a fantastic season for Eller he hasn't excelled when Galchenyuk, Pacioretty or whoever were on his wing or the EGG line was put together. Apart from a few good games with the EGG line his PPG pace with them wasn't overwhelmingly good. It was okay as a filler I think. I maintain Eller can slot up and down the line up no different than Weise has be used but either in top 6 just isn't worth it.

Now, people will compare to DD but DD is often blasted for his totals so that says everything. Besides, DD must go this off-season(or sooner if we get a winger) anyway. I'm not opposed to trading both.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

So here's my issue with this whole thing. I don't mean to turn this into a DD Vs Eller post, but well.. I apologize in advance.

Desharnais is given EVERY opportunity to shine, powerplay time, best wingers for 80+ games the last two (and definitely more) years, no PK time, hardly any defensive zone faceoffs (unless oddly we're up by a goal with 10 seconds to go) etc.

Eller? Always put with the scrubs. He was with the Gallys and the EGG line was the best. They succeeded and what happened? Therrien took off Gallagher to get Desharnais going.

I could go on and on with examples of this, but really that just sums it up.

Desharnais has all the golden platters he could want and Eller, who maybe will never be more than a 3rd line center get the scraps, and the hardest assignments every single time.

Truthfully? Eller does a great job defensively.

This sounds incoherent, I apologize but I'm frustrated with the politics and the favoritism that goes on. Don't even get me started with Weise and this top line BS.

While I agree with the premise about DD, the bolded is wrong. Eller was given the EGG line and/or 1st line with max for over 20 games last season and his production went from hot(first 3 games) to non-existent by the end.

He continued to have Galchenyuk on his side, our 2nd most talented forward and his production pace continued to drop despite it.

DD being given multiple opportunities and free passes is wrong but I don't think 2 wrongs make a right here. Eller is a 3rd liner.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

Define fail. Apart from 2012-13 which was a fantastic season for Eller he hasn't excelled when Galchenyuk, Pacioretty or whoever were on his wing or the EGG line was put together. Apart from a few good games with the EGG line his PPG pace with them wasn't overwhelmingly good. It was okay as a filler I think. I maintain Eller can slot up and down the line up no different than Weise has be used but either in top 6 just isn't worth it.

Now, people will compare to DD but DD is often blasted for his totals so that says everything. Besides, DD must go this off-season(or sooner if we get a winger) anyway. I'm not opposed to trading both.

Please show me where he got any sort of reasonable stretch of games with any of those players to really establish anything one way or another.

There's a website which has been referenced multiple times in this and other threads which shows the Habs' players ice time and forward combos with most used and so on and so forth...go on that site and tell us the linemates and total minutes that Eller got with player X, Y and Z and failed in.

Thank you.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Please show me where he got any sort of reasonable stretch of games with any of those players to really establish anything one way or another.

There's a website which has been referenced multiple times in this and other threads which shows the Habs' players ice time and forward combos with most used and so on and so forth...go on that site and tell us the linemates and total minutes that Eller got with player X, Y and Z and failed in.

Thank you.

I already did a similar analysis about 10 pages ago. I can go into more detail but given how you respond to messages I don't think you'd care for discussion, only to look for reasons why you're right and other people are wrong.

Still, if you truly care about it here's a GF per 60 minutes, it's already done:

http://www.cs.unb.ca/~mwf/habs/2013-14/regseason/gf.html

It considers only EV so this will not show PPP obviously.

You're welcome.

 

[Hoople]

Has he failed in a top 6 role?

Right now he is failing at #3 C.

Fourteen games now without a goal. Only 2 points in that time frame. He is a -2 for those 14 games. He only has 16 shots during those games and in 5 of the 14 games, he had ZERO shots.

Where does that scream out to you "I am deserving of a top 6 role"?

 

[Hoople]

So here's my issue with this whole thing. I don't mean to turn this into a DD Vs Eller post, but well.. I apologize in advance.

Desharnais is given EVERY opportunity to shine, powerplay time, best wingers for 80+ games the last two (and definitely more) years, no PK time, hardly any defensive zone faceoffs (unless oddly we're up by a goal with 10 seconds to go) etc.

Eller? Always put with the scrubs. He was with the Gallys and the EGG line was the best. They succeeded and what happened? Therrien took off Gallagher to get Desharnais going.

I could go on and on with examples of this, but really that just sums it up.

Desharnais has all the golden platters he could want and Eller, who maybe will never be more than a 3rd line center get the scraps, and the hardest assignments every single time.

Truthfully? Eller does a great job defensively.

This sounds incoherent, I apologize but I'm frustrated with the politics and the favoritism that goes on. Don't even get me started with Weise and this top line BS.

Eller is never compared to Eller. He is always victimized, especially when compared to DD. So here is a novel idea. Lets not compare Eller to DD.

You mentioned his great job defensively.

Eller - Team GF - 24 Team GA - 30
Sekac - Team GF - 24 Team GA - 17
Prust - Team GF - 18 Team GA - 25
PAP - Team GF - 25 Team GA - 21
Weise - Team GF - 25 Team GA - 18

Not seeing it man.

 

[Nynja*]

Right now he is failing at #3 C.

Fourteen games now without a goal. Only 2 points in that time frame. He is a -2 for those 14 games. He only has 16 shots during those games and in 5 of the 14 games, he had ZERO shots.

Where does that scream out to you "I am deserving of a top 6 role"?

So he's failing at producing offense in a defensive role without any offensive linemates or offensive deployment...

srsly, pls stop.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Eller is never compared to Eller. He is always victimized, especially when compared to DD. So here is a novel idea. Lets not compare Eller to DD.

You mentioned his great job defensively.

Eller - Team GF - 24 Team GA - 30
Sekac - Team GF - 24 Team GA - 17
Prust - Team GF - 18 Team GA - 25
PAP - Team GF - 25 Team GA - 21
Weise - Team GF - 25 Team GA - 18

Not seeing it man.

Careful when using that stat.

It should be Team GF-Team PPGF vs Team GA-Team PKGA

With the new differential:

Eller - Team GF - 22 Team GA - 26
Sekac - Team GF - 19 Team GA - 16
Prust - Team GF - 17 Team GA - 14
PAP - Team GF - 16 Team GA - 21
Weise - Team GF - 25 Team GA - 15

 

[Hoople]

Sekac shot% for the season is 15.2%.

Eller shot% for the season is 10.0%.

Yeah, Eller needs more skill on his line. Sekac is a scrub.

Its funny that the scrub Sekac has 16 points for the season and Eller has 15.

 

[hototogisu]

So he's failing at producing offense in a defensive role without any offensive linemates or offensive deployment...

srsly, pls stop.

At what point can we start asking Eller to drive his own line, his own teammates, and his own production? Even if you look at him solely as a third liner (as in, not comparing his production or ice time to Desharnais or anyone else on the team), he's been failing the grade for a long time now. No points in over a month, I mean come on. He's not nearly enough of a defensive wizard to make up for not picking up a single point in over month. It's becoming a yearly story with him.

His only saving grace is that, yeah, no one else in the bottom six is scoring either. And now he's jumbled with 2 guys who have barely played in the NHL. So I get it. Therrien doesn't do Lars many favors. But Lars doesn't do himself many either.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

^^^ good post.

Will someone just please acknowledge the fact that both DD and Lars are average NHLers? Not terrible but not great either. I don't see why this issue is so complicated.

 

[Hoople]

Careful when using that stat.

It should be Team GF-Team PPGF vs Team GA-Team PKGA

With the new differential:

Eller - Team GF - 22 Team GA - 26
Sekac - Team GF - 19 Team GA - 16
Prust - Team GF - 17 Team GA - 14
PAP - Team GF - 16 Team GA - 21
Weise - Team GF - 25 Team GA - 15

Interesting. That puts Eller on par defensively with PAP for 5 on 5.

 

[Hoople]

^^^ good post.

Will someone just please acknowledge the fact that both DD and Lars are average NHLers? Not terrible but not great either. I don't see why this issue is so complicated.

Pretty much this.........

 

[ECWHSWI]

Eller is never compared to Eller. He is always victimized, especially when compared to DD. So here is a novel idea. Lets not compare Eller to DD.

You mentioned his great job defensively.

Eller - Team GF - 24 Team GA - 30
Sekac - Team GF - 24 Team GA - 17
Prust - Team GF - 18 Team GA - 25
PAP - Team GF - 25 Team GA - 21
Weise - Team GF - 25 Team GA - 18

Not seeing it man.

are you trying to disguise + / - or something... really ???

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Interesting. That puts Eller on par defensively with PAP for 5 on 5.

It's a little more complex than that because Eller stayed on one line all year and the others moved around. Someone like Prust/Sekac are probably the closest comparisons.

The reason I changed the stat for you is because otherwise you include GA when you're on the PK and GF when you're on the PP. Seems unfair obviously.

 

[Hoople]

are you trying to disguise + / - or something... really ???

My mistake. I meant to add this to my post.....

*Lars Eller was not responsible for any of those goals being scored while he was on the ice. Hockey is a team game when discussing a fanboy crush. It is an individual game when discussing a different player like David Desharnais.

Better?

 

[Hoople]

It's a little more complex than that because Eller stayed on one line all year and the others moved around. Someone like Prust/Sekac are probably the closest comparisons.

The reason I changed the stat for you is because otherwise you include GA when you're on the PK and GF when you're on the PP. Seems unfair obviously.

That's why I included the .

 

[ECWHSWI]

My mistake. I meant to add this to my post.....

*Lars Eller was not responsible for any of those goals being scored while he was on the ice. Hockey is a team game when discussing a fanboy crush. It is an individual game when discussing a different player like David Desharnais.

Better?

great way to avoid awnsering the question, as usual.

 

[OldCraig71]

I like Lars Eller but he needs to turn it up asap, he is talented so I am puzzled as to why he does not create more and shoot more. He has the size and speed with a decent shot, he should be a 20 goal man but I wonder if he ever will. He may need a change of scenery and I wonder what will happen at the deadline. He was clutch in the playoffs last year but we want more and so should he. I don't feel he has been quite the same since the Gryba hit and that would affect anyone, I really like him but I want to see more from him. Great team guy but he needs to want it just a little more.

 

[Nynja*]

At what point can we start asking Eller to drive his own line, his own teammates, and his own production? Even if you look at him solely as a third liner (as in, not comparing his production or ice time to Desharnais or anyone else on the team), he's been failing the grade for a long time now. No points in over a month, I mean come on. He's not nearly enough of a defensive wizard to make up for not picking up a single point in over month. It's becoming a yearly story with him.

His only saving grace is that, yeah, no one else in the bottom six is scoring either. And now he's jumbled with 2 guys who have barely played in the NHL. So I get it. Therrien doesn't do Lars many favors. But Lars doesn't do himself many either.

The problem lies in the fact that the chosen one struggles, and he's given a pick me up in the form of ice time, OZone draws, PP, and established linemates. Eller struggles, and MT takes him aside and says "we need more from you", while not giving him any pick me ups (in fact, it can be said that he actually gives him less to work with).

 

[Hoople]

edit

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

At what point can we start asking Eller to drive his own line, his own teammates, and his own production? Even if you look at him solely as a third liner (as in, not comparing his production or ice time to Desharnais or anyone else on the team), he's been failing the grade for a long time now. No points in over a month, I mean come on. He's not nearly enough of a defensive wizard to make up for not picking up a single point in over month. It's becoming a yearly story with him.

His only saving grace is that, yeah, no one else in the bottom six is scoring either. And now he's jumbled with 2 guys who have barely played in the NHL. So I get it. Therrien doesn't do Lars many favors. But Lars doesn't do himself many either.

He'll never be a 1st line talent. Just not what he is. He is going to have highs and lows just like a guy like Plekanec will. 2nd and 3rd liners will always be somewhat streaky.

We haven't done much to help him though. You can't just give a guy defensive assignments and then yell at him when he doesn't produce offense for you. At some point you've got to either give him some opportunities offensively or lower your expectations.

Lars Eller is one of the best 3rd line centers in the league. He's slumping but I'm not worried about the guy.