Confirmed with Link: Lars 'Danish Rage' Eller Re-Signs (3.5m x 4 years) overlords rejoices

[Sorinth]

You neglect to recognize how many games Eller had Galchenyuk and Gallagher with him and put up donuts, or the games he just had Galchenyuk.

The excuses pile up for him. And I like Eller. But he needs to be 2012-2013 Eller, not 2011-2012 or 2013-2014 Eller. That's it. That's all. No excuses.

2012-2013 Eller had a 53 point pace . If you are expecting that from a third liner with no PP time your out to lunch. Can you find a single 3rd line player who got 1min or less a game of PP time that put up 50pts in the last 10 years?

He had Gallagher for 21 games and Galchenyuk for 43 games (Including all of Gallagher's). Care to see how many game Marchand was with Bergeron for?

Eller had a bad year last year, no one is saying he didn't but since he was put in a third line role (3 years ago) he's averaged nearly half a point a game over that time. If you expect more from a third line with no PP then your expectations are just delusional.

 

[Price is Wright]

If you expect more from a third line with no PP then your expectations are just delusional.

I'm expecting 35-45 points. That's acceptable for a third line center who gets the minutes he does. I think him and Sekac are going to click and there will be line shuffles. Therrien plays a three line attack with a grind line. He's going to get the minutes. He just needs to use them. He also needs to get better on the road.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

I'm tired of people trying to make excuses for an NHL hockey player who had a bad season.

There seems to be Habs fans here who believe Eller would be a 70 point superstar center if the team gave him 20 minutes a game on top PP time. It's ludicrous. He isn't being held down. He just isn't stepping up.

Eller had a great start to the season. Woopie. He's Brian Savage. Mr. October. 8 points in 8 games. Almost 1/3 of his points came in the first eight games of his 77 game season.

I believe Eller can be better, much better, and it doesn't take PP time or getting Max Pacioretty latched onto his line to do it. It takes Eller playing smarter. He proved that in the playoffs. I want to see him prove it consistently over the course of a full season.

Andy already answered all your points, so I won't rehash them. I do find it funny though that, on one hand:

There seems to be Habs fans here who believe Eller would be a 70 point superstar center if the team gave him 20 minutes a game on top PP time. It's ludicrous. He isn't being held down. He just isn't stepping up.

...but on the other hand:

I believe Eller can be better, much better, and it doesn't take PP time or getting Max Pacioretty latched onto his line to do it. It takes Eller playing smarter. He proved that in the playoffs. I want to see him prove it consistently over the course of a full season.

So you find it ridiculous to characterize Eller as a 70 point player w/ Pacioretty and PP time, but you also believe that he can (and should) rival Marchand (53 points) and Frolik (42 points) while being a bottom 6 player with no PP time and linemates nowhere near Bergeron and Kane?

Seems a pretty fine line to walk

And my original comment was more to point out that the phrase "I'm a huge fan of Eller..." exclusively precedes a post that does nothing but dump on him, and IMO is thrown in as nothing more than an attempt to impart impartiality / legitimacy to a post whose main point is to trash a player. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's just how I see it...










...and I'm a huge fan of your posts, NTN

 

[Andy]

You ignore the fact he STOPPED producing with those players and they were taken off his line to go play with more productive players. 8 in 8 followed by 5 in 14, 3 of which came from a single Islanders game. Then Gallagher came off the line in Minnesota. Galchenyuk was still on the line until 2014, when he went completely dry until April.

So, lines can go in and out of slumps. And Eller didn't play the next 15 games with Galchenyuk and Gallagher, the line had got split up for a few games before being reunited. Also, despite not putting up points, the line was still playing extremely well, it was the team's best line and Galchenyuk and Eller had discussed how they were getting used to being keyed in on by the team's better players.

They were producing and then the line was just broken up. They produced 3 points each in the Islanders game, and put point up in the Columbus games just after the Tampa game in between. They were producing and were threats each game, the line was broken up to cater to DD who put up goose eggs the entire season up to that point no matter who he played with.

Also, people forget that before Vanek came in and with the dud of a signing that Briere was, the Canadiens didn't have the personnel to run 3 scoring lines.

There are very few third lines centres that put up 40 points in a bottom 6 role without PP time.

 

[Price is Wright]

And my original comment was more to point out that the phrase "I'm a huge fan of Eller..." exclusively precedes a post that does nothing but dump on him, and IMO is thrown in as nothing more than an attempt to impart impartiality / legitimacy to a post whose main point is to trash a player. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's just how I see it...

I used to get on Gillies case when he was helping win the Islanders multiple Cups. Didn't mean I wanted him gone or traded.

I'm not going to excuse what I see on the ice. I watched Eller live in Detroit play wing with Plekanec and Gionta and look like an AHLer. It was like he forgot he had brains or Plekanec told him to play like Andrei Kostitsyn and chase the puck like a rabid dog.

My point with Frolik and Marchand is that you can put up 30+ points without PP time. Eller does get PP time, just not as much as you guys would like. I have no problem seeing Eller put up 30+ points on even strength. I don't see why the people making excuses for him can't see that.

 

[Sorinth]

I'm expecting 35-45 points. That's acceptable for a third line center who gets the minutes he does. I think him and Sekac are going to click and there will be line shuffles. Therrien plays a three line attack with a grind line. He's going to get the minutes. He just needs to use them. He also needs to get better on the road.

First off 35-45 points is Elite production for third liners, doubly so for 3rd liners who don't get PP time.

And guess what Eller's average over the last 3 seasons is in that range.

We most certainly did not play a three line attack last season. We played a one line attack and 2 shutdown lines. If we had a three line attack the zone starts would be fairly even.

 

[Andy]

Also to clarify:

Eller had 6 points (not 5) over that 14 game period that is considered "not producing in a top 6 role".

Also interesting to note, over that same 14 game period:

Gionta 7 points in 13 games
Gallagher 7 points in 14 games
Galchenyuk 7 points in 14 games
Plekanec 12 points in 14 games
Desharnais 1 point in 14 games
Bourque 4 points in 14 games.

Briere and Pacioretty missed a chunk of games during that period because of injury. However, during those string of games, Briere had 2 points in 4 games and Pacioretty had 1 point 6.

His numbers weren't all that different from the rest of the top 6 during that time span (Plekanec aside).

 

[Winter Eclipse]

My point with Frolik and Marchand is that you can put up 30+ points without PP time.

You said PP time AND linemates originally.

Marchand also was not a 3rd liner, and played with Bergeron.

Frolik played with Kane.

It's fine if you wanna say w/o PP time, but to ask Eller to consistently produce as well as Marchand does on the 2nd line with Bergeron, while playing on the 3rd line with Galchenyuk is unrealistic IMO.

 

[Grant McCagg]

I'd love to see a debate on here about which came first..the chicken or the egg. I'm sure it would be both popular and heated. There appears to be a lot of "black and white" opinions on here, but I suppose this is the type of place where you will find such things.

I don't think anyone can definitively predict Eller's future production or what line he will play on. There is much evidence to suggest that he is a cusper at this point...he's shown flashes of being a top two-center..but also shown stretches where he looks no better than a checking-line player. I'm with the folks who thinks he needs to earn it.

The positive thing is that the last time we saw him play, he was playing quite well, and it was during the playoffs, which also bodes well. It looked like he was back to the player we saw much of the previous season. Considering the injury he overcame and his age...it is reasonable to expect that he will be closer to the player we saw in the playoffs than the one we saw in the regular season, but by no means a given.

I think Bergevin showed Habs nation this past season that he is on the ball, and that the majority of decisions made by him and his staff has been pretty much dead on since last October. More than once I've pondered why there was such an improvement in Eller's game once the playoffs started..same thing with Bourque. I find it too much of a coincidence to think the switch simply flicked on for both of them at the same time, especially in Eller's case, as Bourque has a reputation as a streaky player.

I think that at some point before the playoffs started that Bergevin, Duds, Therrien - and whoever else Bergevin wanted in the room - sat down with Eller and had a heart to heart with him. His biggest issue is with the mental part of the game, the physical skills are there. He is not without sense, but there are times that he played like a dough head, including the majority a 50-game stretch during the season. He did not deserve power play time and top-six linemates and minutes during that period. He needs to use his teammates smartly..the positive thing is that he is capable of doing just that, as we saw in the playoffs.

During the playoffs however...he played like he deserved top six opportunities. I don't think that will be lost on Bergevin, Duds..and yes..even Therrien.

It's hard not to argue that the team has gotten bigger..Bergevin has made n effort in this offseason to address a lack of size by jettisoning Bouillon, Gio and Briere. Duds has a reputation for liking a large, rugged team....Mellanby was and is no wallflower either.

I don't think they are crazy about having top two centers who are a combined 7 inches or so under 6-0. I really think they would like to see Eller step up and seize the opportunity at some point..but he has to earn it.

If he comes out and plays like he did in the playoffs....Eller will be given more opportunity. Even if he starts on the third line...he is going to have good linemates, especially if Bourque plays well. There will be no excuse for him having another 26-point season.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

I'd love to see a debate on here about which came first..the chicken or the egg. I'm sure it would be both popular and heated. There appears to be a lot of "black and white" opinions on here, but I suppose this is the type of place where you will find such things.

I don't think anyone can definitively predict Eller's future production or what line he will play on. There is much evidence to suggest that he is a cusper at this point...he's shown flashes of being a top two-center..but also shown stretches where he looks no better than a checking-line player. I'm with the folks who thinks he needs to earn it.

The positive thing is that the last time we saw him play, he was playing quite well, and it was during the playoffs, which also bodes well. It looked like he was back to the player we saw much of the previous season. Considering the injury he overcame and his age...it is reasonable to expect that he will be closer to the player we saw in the playoffs than the one we saw in the regular season, but by no means a given.

I think Bergevin showed Habs nation this past season that he is on the ball, and that the majority of decisions made by him and his staff has been pretty much dead on since last October. More than once I've pondered why there was such an improvement in Eller's game once the playoffs started..same thing with Bourque. I find it too much of a coincidence to think the switch simply flicked on for both of them at the same time, especially in Eller's case, as Bourque has a reputation as a streaky player.

I think that at some point before the playoffs started that Bergevin, Duds, Therrien - and whoever else Bergevin wanted in the room - sat down with Eller and had a heart to heart with him. His biggest issue is with the mental part of the game, the physical skills are there. He is not without sense, but there are times that he played like a dough head, including the majority a 50-game stretch during the season. He did not deserve power play time and top-six linemates and minutes during that period. He needs to use his teammates smartly..the positive thing is that he is capable of doing just that, as we saw in the playoffs.

During the playoffs however...he played like he deserved top six opportunities. I don't think that will be lost on Bergevin, Duds..and yes..even Therrien.

It's hard not to argue that the team has gotten bigger..Bergevin has made n effort in this offseason to address a lack of size by jettisoning Bouillon, Gio and Briere. Duds has a reputation for liking a large, rugged team....Mellanby was and is no wallflower either.

I don't think they are crazy about having top two centers who are a combined 7 inches or so under 6-0. I really think they would like to see Eller step up and seize the opportunity at some point..but he has to earn it.

If he comes out and plays like he did in the playoffs....Eller will be given more opportunity. Even if he starts on the third line...he is going to have good linemates, especially if Bourque plays well. There will be no excuse for him having another 26-point season.

The problem I have with this is that it's heavy on emotional appeal and mantra, but short on specifics.

He has to "earn" it.
What qualifies as earning it? Given that 52 points is enough to earn 1st line offensive minutes, top linemates, and priority PP time, what threshold are you setting for Eller to earn a promotion?

He is going to have good linemates.
Like who? Are you counting Bourque as a quality linemate? What linemates do you see Eller getting, and why do they qualify as good?

There will be no excuses this time.
So if his linemates don't play well (like regular season Bourque) and he's not given any additional opportunities even if he's playing well (like in the playoffs) it's still all on Eller?

 

[Church]

Phil Parent likes this signing

 

[Winter Eclipse]

Phil Parent likes this signing

Really?!?!?!? Then we should make sure he can see it right at the top of the boards, just in case he forgets the wonderful news!!

 

[Sorinth]

I'd love to see a debate on here about which came first..the chicken or the egg. I'm sure it would be both popular and heated. There appears to be a lot of "black and white" opinions on here, but I suppose this is the type of place where you will find such things.

I don't think anyone can definitively predict Eller's future production or what line he will play on. There is much evidence to suggest that he is a cusper at this point...he's shown flashes of being a top two-center..but also shown stretches where he looks no better than a checking-line player. I'm with the folks who thinks he needs to earn it.

The million dollar question is what does earn it mean? He led the team in scoring during the playoffs with 13 point in 17 games. To a lot of people that would be considered earning it, no?

The only time Eller has gotten a sniff of the top-6 was when Desharnais was completely brutal. So there's a serious question about whether anything he does can earn him that spot.

 

[Price is Wright]

You said PP time AND linemates originally.

People need to stop saying this.

Brad Marchand put up 46 even strength points compared to only two powerplay points. Eller had double the PP minutes Marchand had.

Don't make things up. I pointed out Marchand's ES points compared to PP points. Said nothing about linemates.

 

[Andy]

Don't make things up. I pointed out Marchand's ES points compared to PP points. Said nothing about linemates.

But why should Eller put similar points ES a lesser offensive role than Marchand? That makes no sense.

I'll say the same thing about Eller this season as I did last season...without top 6 lines mates, pp time and more offensive situations, I really don't see Eller putting up more than 30-35 points max. I would guess around 33. Last year was right around the mark, but Eller hasn't struggled that hard since entering the league, so it really was an outlier.

40 points would really shock me if he plays in the same role this upcoming season as last.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

Don't make things up. I pointed out Marchand's ES points compared to PP points. Said nothing about linemates.

You spoke about linemates right here:

You neglect to recognize how many games Eller had Galchenyuk and Gallagher with him and put up donuts, or the games he just had Galchenyuk.

The excuses pile up for him. And I like Eller. But he needs to be 2012-2013 Eller, not 2011-2012 or 2013-2014 Eller. That's it. That's all. No excuses.

Now you didn't say it in your original post, that's true, but discussing PP time in a vacuum is a little disingenuous, no?

 

[Grant McCagg]

The problem I have with this is that it's heavy on emotional appeal and mantra, but short on specifics.

Huh? It wasn't an emotional appeal at all.

He has to "earn" it.
What qualifies as earning it? Given that 52 points is enough to earn 1st line offensive minutes, top linemates, and priority PP time, what threshold are you setting for Eller to earn a promotion?

He has to outplay the other two centers coming out of the gate this season like he did in these past playoffs.

He is going to have good linemates.
Like who? Are you counting Bourque as a quality linemate? What linemates do you see Eller getting, and why do they qualify as good?

Montreal has excellent winger depth right now IMO..you don't have to agree. Whoever wins the third line spots will have earned it....in my opinion there are six or seven good candidates to play with Eller on the third line..he won't be playing with AHL scrubs like some third line centers do on poor NHL teams.

There will be no excuses this time.
So if his linemates don't play well (like regular season Bourque) and he's not given any additional opportunities even if he's playing well (like in the playoffs) it's still all on Eller?

Once again I refer back to his injury, which many seem to weant to ignore completely on this board. That was his main "excuse" for not driving to the net and playing more aggressively in the offensive zone last regular season - it was a mental thing IMO......he proved by the playoffs that it should no longer be an excuse. Add in that people can't use the excuse that he had to play at times with a "washed up" Briere and Gionta.....and he is now entering the prime of his career when he should have things figured out mentally and physically...no excuses any more.

 

[Andy]

Brian Gionta is a good hockey player...part of the reason for Lars' revival which started at the tail end of the regular season when Gionta was placed on his line. It helped him having a competent two-way winger.

 

[Ineverplayedthegame]

Marchand is an annoying little rat and a Bruins and I hate him as much as any Habs fan but he's a very very good player. Asking Eller to be as good as half (admittedly not the best half) of a duo that's arguably up there with Kopitar-Williams and Toews-Hossa in terms of ES efficiency seems like a pretty damn high standard.

Brian Gionta is a good hockey player...part of the reason for Lars' revival which started at the tail end of the regular season when Gionta was placed on his line. It helped him having a competent two-way winger.

Gionta's career as hab (and overall) as been ridiculously underrated. He was clearly slowing down and I'm happy we didn't give him the contract he got from Buffalo but he was probably our best player at ES in his first two seasons here.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

Brian Gionta is a good hockey player...part of the reason for Lars' revival which started at the tail end of the regular season when Gionta was placed on his line. It helped him having a competent two-way winger.

Yep, having the captain on his wing was the turning point in Eller's season. It did help Eller a lot.

 

[Rapala]

Once again I refer back to his injury, which many seem to weant to ignore completely on this board. That was his main "excuse" for not driving to the net and playing more aggressively in the offensive zone last regular season - it was a mental thing IMO......he proved by the playoffs that it should no longer be an excuse. Add in that people can't use the excuse that he had to play at times with a "washed up" Briere and Gionta.....and he is now entering the prime of his career when he should have things figured out mentally and physically...no excuses any more.

I've said all along his injury impacted everything about his season last year.
Thor showed up to training camp bulked to the hilt.
It took him almost a complete season to find a good balance. Size/Speed/Stamina
Keep in mind Bergeron put up 39 pts the year following his injury granted it was in 60 odd games but his plus minus was no where near normal for him.
Lars can easily generate 50 pts for this club providing his linemates are opportunistic.
His PO performance and this contract will shift the pressure some to his linemates.
The question now should be who can perform with Lars...

 

[Grant McCagg]

Yep, having the captain on his wing was the turning point in Eller's season. It did help Eller a lot.

Yet Gionta is at best at third liner at this point in his career IMO. A solid third liner, but a third liner. It's time for Eller to make his linemates better regardless of who that might be. He did that in the playoffs, time for him to do it for an entire season.
Eller was significantly better than Gionta in the playoffs BTW. Eller cetainly wasn't "improved" by not receiving passes from Gionta.

It had less to do with Eller playing with Gionta than it did him waking up mentally.

 

[Hoople]

Still a lot of arguing about Eller and his value to the team.

Has he signed yet? I hope its soon.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

Yet Gionta is at best at third liner at this point in his career IMO. A solid third liner, but a third liner. It's time for Eller to make his linemates better regardless of who that might be. He did that in the playoffs, time for him to do it for an entire season.
Eller was significantly better than Gionta in the playoffs BTW. Eller cetainly wasn't "improved" by not receiving passes from Gionta.

It had less to do with Eller playing with Gionta than it did him waking up mentally.

Oh yeah.. I also meant Gio helped Eller mentally.

Eller's sometimes reminds me of AK, not by the type of player but the kind of player that when he loses his confidence, he's like left out of the team, he's completely lost and couldn't complete/take a pass. They just need more maintenance but still good/useful players nonetheless.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Once again I refer back to his injury, which many seem to weant to ignore completely on this board. That was his main "excuse" for not driving to the net and playing more aggressively in the offensive zone last regular season - it was a mental thing IMO......he proved by the playoffs that it should no longer be an excuse. Add in that people can't use the excuse that he had to play at times with a "washed up" Briere and Gionta.....and he is now entering the prime of his career when he should have things figured out mentally and physically...no excuses any more.

As far as I'm concerned there are no excuses for Therrien anymore. He's been a complete idiot in how he's used Eller.