Confirmed with Link: Lars 'Danish Rage' Eller Re-Signs (3.5m x 4 years) overlords rejoices

[Mario Lemieux fan 66]

So you're kinda "meh" on having our #1C get 67 points instead of 52?

It's not a done thing. Some of them could gets less points.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

Players like Crosby, Malkin, Kopitar, Getzlaf, Toews are never on the market you need to draft them. I seriously doubt Eller, Plekanec or Galchenyuk can beat Desharnais number by more than 10-15 points. Even then they are far from the superstars center you listed.

Wait a minute...Why do they have to beat Desharnais by 10-15 pts? You just said you don't think none of our centers can't beat DD's number and now they have to beat him by 15 pts?

I would use the all over DD as a first center role because they are more complete than DD. Plekanec have had season of 69-70 pts before when being used a a first center. He scored 20 goals for the 6th time in his career last season so its not like Pley is done offensively, he doesnt produce as much because he has more defensive duties and have to play with leftovers winger. Eller outproduced DD in 12-13 and this playoffs, all that in a bottom 6 role (weaker winger, no PP) so I dont see how you can say with certainty that none of our centers can outproduce DD.

 

[Mario Lemieux fan 66]

How do we get superstars? By drafting them. By playing them.
We draft one.....but we don't play him.
.

I don't see Galchenyuk as a superstar. More a 55 to 65 points Producer in his prime.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

I don't see Galchenyuk as a superstar. More a 55 to 65 points Producer in his prime.

Only one way to find out...

 

[Mario Lemieux fan 66]

Wait a minute...Why do they have to beat Desharnais by 10-15 pts? You just said you don't think none of our centers can't beat DD's number and now they have to beat him by 15 pts?

I would use the all over DD as a first center role because they are more complete than DD. Plekanec have had season of 69-70 pts before when being used a a first center. He scored 20 goals for the 6th time in his career last season so its not like Pley is done offensively, he doesnt produce as much because he has more defensive duties and have to play with leftovers winger. Eller outproduced DD in 12-13 and this playoffs, all that in a bottom 6 role (weaker winger, no PP) so I dont see how you can say with certainty that none of our centers can outproduce DD.

The goal is to maximize the team success with the players they have. Playing Plekanec against weaker opposition doesn't seems like a smart move when he can be a two way center by shutting down the other team top line and get a point every now and then.

Eller was a god in the playoff but there was also a long stretch last year when he was legitimely bad all by himself and unable to complete a single pass. Eller needs to be more consistent. But i recognize that he also should get more powerplay time than last year.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

The goal is to maximize the team success with the players they have. Playing Plekanec against weaker opposition doesn't seems like a smart move when he can be a two way center by shutting down the other team top line and get a point every now and then.

Eller was a god in the playoff but there was also a long stretch last year when he was legitimely bad all by himself and unable to complete a single pass. Eller needs to be more consistent. But i recognize that he also should get more powerplay time than last year.

Well, you changed your version again.

You started off the other post by saying none of our center can realistically outproduced DD.

I'm sorry but I don't think having a 50pts center as a top liner is what I called maximizing the team's success.

I'd rather use the best center on the first line. The more complete center. The center that scored 20 goals 6 times in his career. The center that can reach 70 pts in an offensive role. Not the center that averages about 55 pts in the regular season and is overwhelmed in the playoffs.

Let's not pretend like DD only spot to be useful is the 1st line. He remains a pretty good player with good vision, he can be relevant in the 2nd or third line aswell. If he can produce 40-45pts as a 2nd center or third center which is reachable for him IMO.

 

[Mario Lemieux fan 66]

Well, you changed your version again.

I'm sorry but I don't think having a 50pts center as a top liner is what I called maximizing the team's success.

I'd The center that can reach 70 pts in an offensive role. Not the center that averages about 55 pts in the regular season and is overwhelmed in the playoffs.

.

All our centers are 45 to 55 points center. If you want an upgrade you need to look outside of the team.

Plekanec 70 points was 4 years ago. I would not expect the same number even if was playing against far weaker opposition.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I don't see Galchenyuk as a superstar. More a 55 to 65 points Producer in his prime.

Eh, I see potentially more. I'm not sure if he'd reach it but he's pretty good.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

All our centers are 45 to 55 points center. If you want an upgrade you need to look outside of the team.

Plekanec 70 points was for years ago. I would not expect the same number even if was playing against far weaker opposition.

Well, when Plekanec got 70 pts his role was different, he was playing DD's current role. Plekanec's production has decrease because he's too good defensively and the coach rather use him in a more defensive role.

He still got it as a goal scorer potting 20 again last season but his wingers have all the troubles in the world scoring. Playing with wingers like Bourque, Gionta, Bournival, Moen, Prust doesn't not help his numbers of assists. And he's rarely on the first PP where Markov and Subban are on it. That also have an impact on his production.

Not saying he could easily reach 70 pts again but with Pacioretty and whoever on his right+first wave PP, I think Plek can easily get 20g/40a 60pts again.

 

[Mario Lemieux fan 66]

Not saying he could easily reach 70 pts again but with Pacioretty and whoever on his right+first wave PP, I think Plek can easily get 20g/40a 60pts again.

It's very possible as much as it's possible for Desharnais to hit 60 points playing with Pacioretty and Paranteau. Like i said all our centers are able to averaging 45-55 points.

 

[Wats]

Players like Crosby, Malkin, Kopitar, Getzlaf, Toews are never on the market you need to draft them. I seriously doubt Eller, Plekanec or Galchenyuk can beat Desharnais number by more than 10-15 points. Even then they are far from the superstars center you listed.

That's why trying to put Galchenyuk in the best situation to develop as an offensive C makes sense to many. He's almost literally the only shot at having a legitimate 1st line C.

 

[Mario Lemieux fan 66]

That's why trying to put Galchenyuk in the best situation to develop as an offensive C makes sense to many. He's almost literally the only shot at having a legitimate 1st line C.

I am not against it, i am just not as much a believer in Galchenyuk as some of you. He would need to get better in a lot of area to be considered a 1st line center (face-off, defense, skating, etc.). If we can get a big top 6 forward with talent for a package of Desharnais or Eller + 1st round pick + Beaulieu or Tinordi i would be ok to try Galchenyuk as a center. Until then, he is a winger.

 

[Wats]

I am not against it, i am just not as much a believer in Galchenyuk as some of you. He would need to get better in a lot of area to be considered a 1st line center (face-off, defense, skating, etc.). If we can get a big top 6 forward with talent for a package of Desharnais or Eller + 1st round pick + Beaulieu or Tinordi i would be ok to try Galchenyuk as a center. Until then, he is a winger.

Faceoff skill doesn't magically appear though, actually playing center and taking faceoffs helps. Defense is also improvable and why starting off with majority offensive zone starts/easier minutes helps ease him in. He's already at a ~45 point production rate in both playoffs and regular season at the age of 20. I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean by much of a believer since he's already close to Desharnais without getting as much opportunity and icetime. No one is saying he's going to be Crosby/Lemieux.

 

[Milhouse40]

Without DD?

Then our wingers need to exceed what they made too right? Because putting Galchenyuk at C does remove that production.

There's always a way to rearrange what we have to lead to better output, nothing is ever optimal. I just doubt removing talent at any position helps overall. Re-allocating it? Ya, maybe, maybe not. Losing it without replacing it? Not really.

Exceed production OR be better defensively.
I'll take a 45pts center who is good in his own zone ahead of a 55pts center incapable of checking in his own zone.

Having said that, as far as we know, Galchenyuk gave us 0.5pts/game, not like we're trying to find another Gretzki at this point.

I don't see Galchenyuk as a superstar. More a 55 to 65 points Producer in his prime.

So in his prime he'll produce less than Plekanec (This guy has 69-70 points season),...i see him as a 70-75points player really soon....as soon as he can play with top offensive talent and top offensive ice-time.

 

[Milhouse40]

the main problem with Galchenyuk right now is what "Watsatheo" was pointed out.
Those are the O-zone start of last year:

Desharnais: 53.4%
Briere: 44.5%
Eller: 43.4%
Plekanec: 39.0%
White: 28.5%

And "the plan" is to keep Galchenyuk with Mr.39% offensive zone starts?
The main problem is the duo of Pacioretty and Desharnais...both sucked up all the offensive game situations
leaving none for the other lines. Galchenyuk ABSOLUTELY NEED this ice-time in order to progress.

 

[Price is Wright]

Was he playing on the third line?
Did he spend 50% of his ice time with Prust and or Bourque?
Did he start in the defensive zone over 56% of the time?

Oh. So now the discussion changes from him needing PP time to him needing to play with better linemates?

Make up your mind. If Frolik can do it, Eller can do it.

 

[Sorinth]

Oh. So now the discussion changes from him needing PP time to him needing to play with better linemates?

Make up your mind. If Frolik can do it, Eller can do it.

Frolik has produced 80 points in his last 216 games (3 seasons + playoffs)
Eller has produced 97 points in his last 220 games (3 seasons + playoffs)

So what exactly has Frolik done that Eller hasn't?

EDIT: The discussion has always been about role, that includes linemates, ice time, zone starts, matchups, etc...

 

[Price is Wright]

Frolik has produced 80 points in his last 216 games (3 seasons + playoffs)
Eller has produced 97 points in his last 220 games (3 seasons + playoffs)

So what exactly has Frolik done that Eller hasn't?

EDIT: The discussion has always been about role, that includes linemates, ice time, zone starts, matchups, etc...

The original statement was that Eller won't do better on points because he doesn't get PP time. I pointed out Marchand who had 40+ ES points and Frolik who had 39 Even Strength points.

 

[Andy]

The original statement was that Eller won't do better on points because he doesn't get PP time. I pointed out Marchand who had 40+ ES points and Frolik who had 39 Even Strength points.

No, the argument as always been that Eller will struggle to put up 40 points with 0 pp time in a third line role, that is, playing behind Plekanec and Desharnais in terms of centre priority.

Very few players do this. And while Marchand did have 40 +ES, he's not a third line role playing with bottom 6 wingers. He's is a #1b role since Boston doesn't have a real first line and he plays with a great centre.

 

[Price is Wright]

No, the argument as always been that Eller will struggle to put up 40 points with 0 pp time in a third line role, that is, playing behind Plekanec and Desharnais in terms of centre priority.

Very few players do this. And while Marchand did have 40 +ES, he's not a third line role playing with bottom 6 wingers. He's is a #1b role since Boston doesn't have a real first line and he plays with a great centre.

You neglect to recognize how many games Eller had Galchenyuk and Gallagher with him and put up donuts, or the games he just had Galchenyuk.

The excuses pile up for him. And I like Eller. But he needs to be 2012-2013 Eller, not 2011-2012 or 2013-2014 Eller. That's it. That's all. No excuses.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

You neglect to recognize how many games Eller had Galchenyuk and Gallagher with him and put up donuts, or the games he just had Galchenyuk.

The excuses pile up for him. And I like Eller. But he needs to be 2012-2013 Eller, not 2011-2012 or 2013-2014 Eller. That's it. That's all. No excuses.

A huge red flag right there

 

[Andy]

You neglect to recognize how many games Eller had Galchenyuk and Gallagher with him and put up donuts, or the games he just had Galchenyuk.

The excuses pile up for him. And I like Eller. But he needs to be 2012-2013 Eller, not 2011-2012 or 2013-2014 Eller. That's it. That's all. No excuses.

Frolik spent 42% of the season playing with Evander Kane, Schiefle, Ladd or Little.

Lars Eller spent 20% of the season with Galchenyuk and Gallagher and 7% of the year with Galchenyuk and Prust and 5% with Galchenyuk and Bourque. The rest of the season he was shuffled between bottom 6 players. The situations aren't comparable at all. Frolik played almost half the season with his team's best forwards. Not surprisingly, Eller produced best when playing with actual top 6 forwards. Prust and Bourque didn't produce with anyone all season long, so them not producing with Eller isn't a knock against him.

Also, as Kriss E has pointed out several times, Eller was producing at a normal rate for his usage when he was playing just with Galchenyuk.

Eller spent 20% of the year in a top 6 role, Frolik spent almost half the year in a top 6 role.

It really isn't comparable at all.

Eller will struggle to hit 40 points in a bottom 6 role with little PP time playing with bottom 6 players for an overwhelming majority of the year. Very few players in the bottom 6 do this.

 

[Price is Wright]

A huge red flag right there

I'm tired of people trying to make excuses for an NHL hockey player who had a bad season.

There seems to be Habs fans here who believe Eller would be a 70 point superstar center if the team gave him 20 minutes a game on top PP time. It's ludicrous. He isn't being held down. He just isn't stepping up.

Eller had a great start to the season. Woopie. He's Brian Savage. Mr. October. 8 points in 8 games. Almost 1/3 of his points came in the first eight games of his 77 game season.

I believe Eller can be better, much better, and it doesn't take PP time or getting Max Pacioretty latched onto his line to do it. It takes Eller playing smarter. He proved that in the playoffs. I want to see him prove it consistently over the course of a full season.

 

[Andy]

I'm tired of people trying to make excuses for an NHL hockey player who had a bad season.

I'm tired of people who have ridiculous expectations. Many said before the year even started to not expect Eller to put up a lot of points if he's not in a top 6 role without PP time. Very few players in a bottom 6 role put up more than 40 points without PP time.

Marchand and Frolik don't count because they spent the majority of their years in a top 6 role...in the case of the former, some might even argue that he along with Bergeron constitute the team's first line.

In terms of pure line combos, Eller spent the overwhelming majority of the year with bottom 6 players. The only time of the year he produced is when he was given productive wingers...not surprisingly.

 

[Price is Wright]

In terms of pure line combos, Eller spent the overwhelming majority of the year with bottom 6 players. The only time of the year he produced is when he was given productive wingers...not surprisingly.

You ignore the fact he STOPPED producing with those players and they were taken off his line to go play with more productive players. 8 in 8 followed by 5 in 14, 3 of which came from a single Islanders game. Then Gallagher came off the line in Minnesota. Galchenyuk was still on the line until 2014, when he went completely dry until April.