Larry Murphy In Toronto...

[Sentinel]

Murphy was not very good with the Wings. In that 97 Cup run he was lucky to grace the ice with a prime Nicklas Lidstrom as his D partner and amazing two-way Selke caliber forwards in front of him like peak Sergei Fedorov and a still very good Steve Yzerman. That and Detroit’s left wing lock system covered up for much of his deficiencies.

Let's just say you are the only one who thinks that. He was amazing in Detroit: nearly flawless and complimenting the still-young Lidstrom perfectly. With the defense pairings of L-M and F-K, Detroit was inpenetrable. All they needed was some solid goaltending, which they got in Vernon and slightly less so next year in Osgood.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Not hated. But the classic line was "We'll never win with him as captain." It grated my nerves when people said that because true fans knew Sundin never got a proper winger until an old Mogilny showed up. The problem with Sundin is that he didn't fight and being so big the fans thought he should. Matthews might start getting some of that same if the Leafs don't pick it up. But Sundin was a player who used his size differently than others. He used it to protect the puck, to wrap around the net and he was almost impossible to knock off the puck. He didn't throw checks around as much as you'd like, but it wasn't as if he was soft either. One of the most consistent players of all-time and a guy who rarely missed a game. I loved him, and while he was always cordial with the press he was no different than a Joe Sakic type who never preferred to be the centre of attention.

As time has gone by Leaf fans would kill to have a guy like him as their captain again.

Sundin is one of my all-time favorites.

Matthews plays a similar game, although I think he can be better or at least peak higher.

Leafs fan on this site seem quite different from the types who loved guys like Domi and moaned about the Clark trade. Hopefully he'll get the deserved amount of respect if he becomes the Captain and turns out to be a good one. I'm sure he'd be better than Dion in the role.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Sundin had good stats in two Conference Finals showings. 11 points in 8 games. Even in Vancouver in his last year he had 8 points in 8 games. I heard that narrative about Roberts and McCauley bringing Toronto to the 2002 CFs, but they had 1 point each in the Carolina series, while Sundin had 4. He even tied game 5 with 22 seconds left. I didn't watch those games, but that narrative seems a bit suspect looking at the stats.

Sundin was an animal in the 2001 playoffs. The guy had nine points against the Devils in a seven game series (4 g, 5 a) and was +3 in the series. That Devils team had finished first overall in the EC and would end up taking COL to a seventh game in the SCF. That was a damn good team that TOR had no business being competitive against.

Sundin had a big four point game in game two of TOR's 1999 series against the Penguins and the Leafs ended up winning that series and getting to the ECF like they would again do in 2002. That Penguins team featured peak Jagr and had beaten the Devils in round one.



This whole narrative that the Leafs did better without him in the playoffs is garbage. I've addressed it in the past. All they did in 2002 to reach the ECF was win two out of four against the Isles after they had taken a 2-0 series lead with Sundin healthy and in the line-up (he got injured in game three) and then then beat a team they owned in the playoffs and had swept in 2001. Then he led the team in scoring against Carolina and scored a goal that saved the Leafs' season at the time in game six.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Let's just say you are the only one who thinks that. He was amazing in Detroit: nearly flawless and complimenting the still-young Lidstrom perfectly. With the defense pairings of L-M and F-K, Detroit was inpenetrable. All they needed was some solid goaltending, which they got in Vernon and slightly less so next year in Osgood.

Don’t think so. By 99 many were wanting to trade Murphy, as they had towards the end of his Toronto stint in 97.

Murphy at 36/37 just wasn’t the same player he’d been in his prime. He was adequate in that 97 run, when coupled with a prime, not young, 27 year old Nick Lidström.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Don’t think so. By 99 many were wanting to trade Murphy, as they had towards the end of his Toronto stint in 97.

Murphy at 36/37 just wasn’t the same player he’d been in his prime. He was adequate in that 97 run, when coupled with a prime, not young, 27 year old Nick Lidström.

I don't recall Murphy really becoming a point of frustration among Red Wings fans until his last season.

That said, I guess I wouldn't be surprised if there was some "possibly misguided" frustration toward Murphy for some of that 98-99 season. Up until the Chelios trade, the Red Wings were barely a .500 team and Murphy and Lidstrom were the sole competent blueliners on that team after they lowballed Fetisov and Rouse into retirement and out of town, respectively, and went after the big expensive backfiring fish in Uwe Krupp. The rest of the blue line was a mess: a washed up and recently turned journey man waiver claim Todd Gill (who missed a couple months injured), a Jamie Macoun who seemingly hit his "best by date" lifting the 1998 Stanley Cup, Aaron Ward standing one foot out of Bowman's dog house, incomplete winger to dman project Mathieu Dandenault, a stagnating and struggling Anders Eriksson and prospect Yan Golubovsky, who IIRC only played because the Wings were trying to convince the Rangers to take him for Ulf Samuelsson.

==

As for Murphy in Toronto, I can't remember where I read it, but part of the issue was also coaching. Murphy was never a good skater, but seemed to make up for it by having a pretty good awareness of where to or not to be, and an above average ability to move the puck up ice using a pass or dump. IIRC, Toronto's coach in 96/97 (Mike Murphy) wanted the slow footed dman to instead skate the puck out of the zone, which led to pressure and subsequent turnovers and opposing rushes which Murphy didn't possess the speed to keep up with. Given it was the Leafs, I'm sure he was soured on at the first mistake.

An interesting tidbit about the Murphy trade to Detroit is that he was a Plan B after an aborted comeback attempt (that the Red Wings, not the player, actually pushed for) by longtime Bowman pet Mike Ramsey.

 

[Tarantula]

IIRC, Toronto's coach in 96/97 (Mike Murphy) wanted the slow footed dman to instead skate the puck out of the zone, which led to pressure and subsequent turnovers and opposing rushes which Murphy didn't possess the speed to keep up with.

Very well could be, he did have some very noticeable turnovers it seemed, really stood out.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

One thing to consider is that Toronto is a hockey market unlike any other because the hockey team isn't as important in any other market of this size. Montreal is the only other comparable environment, but Toronto is even bigger.

Any drama around the Leafs gets magnified 20x because of the media environment. In most smaller NHL markets, the entire hockey media is basically the local rag's beat writer and the guys working for the regional sports network covering the team. In many cases the guys working for the regional sports networks are *very* close to the organization, and there isn't all that much debate going on.

But if you play hockey for the Leafs it's more like being a soccer star in Italy rather than playing hockey in Tampa Bay. A guy like Gilmour got blown up to be a hero way beyond any rational justification, meanwhile your typical Leafs scapegoats often get vilified like they rape kids after hours. It's a poisonous dynamic and probably one of the main reasons why Toronto has such a hard time clawing its way back to contention. I think Montreal, now that they're 25 years into a Finals drought has started to see some of the same issues. When passion meets frustration it gets ugly fast.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Sundin was an animal in the 2001 playoffs. The guy had nine points against the Devils in a seven game series (4 g, 5 a) and was +3 in the series. That Devils team had finished first overall in the EC and would end up taking COL to a seventh game in the SCF. That was a damn good team that TOR had no business being competitive against.

Sundin had a big four point game in game two of TOR's 1999 series against the Penguins and the Leafs ended up winning that series and getting to the ECF like they would again do in 2002. That Penguins team featured peak Jagr and had beaten the Devils in round one.



This whole narrative that the Leafs did better without him in the playoffs is garbage. I've addressed it in the past. All they did in 2002 to reach the ECF was win two out of four against the Isles after they had taken a 2-0 series lead with Sundin healthy and in the line-up (he got injured in game three) and then then beat a team they owned in the playoffs and had swept in 2001. Then he led the team in scoring against Carolina and scored a goal that saved the Leafs' season at the time in game six.

Don't forget in 2001 Sundin also scored the OT winning goal in Game 1 against the Senators and that was a series no one else said the Leafs would win since they had lost all five regular season games that year to Ottawa and they went onto sweep them in four straight games. Plus the Senators were the #2 seed and the Leafs were the #7 seed.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but the recent trashing of Jake Gardiner reminded me of what Larry Murphy dealt with from Toronto media and fans, and I came across this funny newsgroup topic from '97 on the day Larry Murphy was sent to Detroit, and I had to share it with this board.

YAHOOO!!! Murphy GONE!!!!!!!!

 

[The Panther]

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but the recent trashing of Jake Gardiner reminded me of what Larry Murphy dealt with from Toronto media and fans, and I came across this funny newsgroup topic from '97 on the day Larry Murphy was sent to Detroit, and I had to share it with this board.

YAHOOO!!! Murphy GONE!!!!!!!!

That's a bit sad.

 

[streitz]

was a series no one else said the Leafs would win[/MEDIA]

I didn't realize how long you've been growing this imaginary legend, lol.

 

[streitz]

That's a bit sad.

Murphy was right when he said leafs fans don't know hockey, lol.

Jeez there's some venom in that old yahoo group.


"
He's GONE!! He's GONE!!!! What a relief!!! Finally, we've been spared
the torture of watching the ultimate pylon and his pathetic gaffs. We
don't even have to pick up too much of his salary! Looks like our prayers
have been answered! The biggest cancer on the Leafs is no more! Boy, do I
pitty Red Wing fans. I guess this is truly the nail in the coffin for the Red
Wings' playoff hopes.
Its a good thing that Murphy is still in the central division. That
means every time we play the Wings, we can run the score up that much more
every time Sundin blows by Murphy when he's on the ice. HAHAHA!!!"


Ray Jay- Leafs fan, Carlton university(GO RAVENS)

 

[Doctor No]

Murphy was right when he said leafs fans don't know hockey, lol.

Every single NHL franchise has fans like this. Many of them.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The ultimate kicker, Murphy goes on to win back-to-back Stanley Cups with Detroit, playing a pivotal role on those teams. Can't think of many players who got to win back-to-back Cups with two different teams, but Murphy achieved that.

 

[streitz]

Every single NHL franchise has fans like this. Many of them.

I mean obviously not every leaf fan is like that, that being said whether it's because of the media or whatever Toronto does have a history of things like this with certain players.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Two big factors there, one as pointed out by Spirit, Sundin was not a physical player and W Clarke went out the door in the trade, double whammy there, second big factor was he was Capt after Doug Gilmour, while not a fighter, had the nickname "Killer". Sundin was never appreciated in Hogtown to the degree he deserved to be.

he also succeeded borje salming as toronto’s swedish star. another very tough act to follow.

The ultimate kicker, Murphy goes on to win back-to-back Stanley Cups with Detroit, playing a pivotal role on those teams. Can't think of many players who got to win back-to-back Cups with two different teams, but Murphy achieved that.

hmm, dick duff, bryan trottier, red kelly, that’s all i got off the top of my head.

 

[Hobnobs]

Murphy was not very good with the Wings. In that 97 Cup run he was lucky to grace the ice with a prime Nicklas Lidstrom as his D partner and amazing two-way Selke caliber forwards in front of him like peak Sergei Fedorov and a still very good Steve Yzerman. That and Detroit’s left wing lock system covered up for much of his deficiencies.

Either you didn't watch him play or you have a personal beef with Larry Murphy because this is far from the truth. Murphy helped that team over the hump.

 

[FerrisRox]

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but the recent trashing of Jake Gardiner reminded me of what Larry Murphy dealt with from Toronto media and fans, and I came across this funny newsgroup topic from '97 on the day Larry Murphy was sent to Detroit, and I had to share it with this board.

YAHOOO!!! Murphy GONE!!!!!!!!

I don't think there's much comparison between Murphy and Gardiner. Leaf fans trashing Murphy were ignorant and ill-informed.

This time it's the Leaf fans defending Gardiner that are ignorant and ill-informed.

 

[Dingo]

The city has a habit of hating good players and loving crappy ones.
Ty Domi > Mats Sundin is a good example.

ha, it also doest help having Cherry so involved in a team’s presentation. I remember him arguing, pleading, cajoling, Cherrying up and down that Darcy Tucker was what made that team work, not Sundin!
He did the same for Peca over Hasek in their deep run in 99.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Murphy was bad in Toronto.. he was exposed on a bad team. On other teams where he could settle in as a complementary player he was good.

Same thing with a guy like Kessel. Torn up in Toronto because he was super soft and one dimensional. Gots to Pittsburgh where he isn't "the guy" and does pretty well.