Lalonde & Yzerman 2023-24 Detroit Red Wings End of Season Media Availability

[RRhoads]

orgiveness for bad signings that Holland or any GM would never be afforded because of his on ice history.

This is BS. Have you even seen Holland's signings?

 

[Fynn]

Okay, Yzerman is perfect and does no wrong. Who cares if we ever make the playoffs.

See how that works? Pointing out the issues he's had is not raging, nor did I demand that he be fired. He's basically following the same blueprint that Holland did. Sign experienced guys while we wait for the draft picks to mature and succeed. Holland didn't have many first round picks to do that with in the later years. Most of the experienced guys Yzerman has acquired have not panned out. I don't feel like expecting a playoff berth after 5 years is too much to ask for. I also don't see what the point is of sticking with a coach who does not have the ability to get the most out of his team. They can't seem to do basic things like clear the zone or make a breakout pass. Seems like if a team is lacking talent, focusing on playing well defensively would be a place to start.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Okay, Yzerman is perfect and does no wrong. Who cares if we ever make the playoffs.

See how that works? Pointing out the issues he's had is not raging, nor did I demand that he be fired. He's basically following the same blueprint that Holland did. Sign experienced guys while we wait for the draft picks to mature and succeed. Holland didn't have many first round picks to do that with in the later years. Most of the experienced guys Yzerman has acquired have not panned out. I don't feel like expecting a playoff berth after 5 years is too much to ask for. I also don't see what the point is of sticking with a coach who does not have the ability to get the most out of his team. They can't seem to do basic things like clear the zone or make a breakout pass. Seems like if a team is lacking talent, focusing on playing well defensively would be a place to start.

Ken, you should probably spend less time posting on HFBoards and more time managing your team into another playoff loss.

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

He's done some great things and he's done some dumb things Yzerman. He isn't this messiah some think, but of course he isn't like Holland or a bad GM. He's a good/great GM who unfortunately doesn't have some of the advantages he had in Tampa.

 

[stillwater]

I take a lot of this as Yzerman playing his larger audience, other NHL GMs. A lot of it feels like negotiation posturing.

Yeah, no doubt the #1 priority of the rest of the league's GM's was to watch the end-of-season media availability from the Red Wings. More important than playoffs, and the draft and their own outgoing media availability it would seem.

 

[Hockey Know it all]

I posted the org chart up above.

Edit: lol at calling Compher an old vet. He is one year older than Larkin but didn't break into the NHL until a year after Larkin.

Are you referencing me saying I called Compher old? I never said anything about him at all.

 

[OneMoreTry]

PP1 would go to Seider, PP2 to Simon. You have to think Seider is a 50 point player on PP1. I actually in part think Yzerman brought in Ghost to keep Seider’s production down this year for the contract this summer.

Not really to intentionally keep it down (even though that may be one nice side effect from Yzermans POV), more likely because replacing him on the PP1 was easier than finding someone to replace him on PK1. If you think, that maybe he didn't want to play him in both roles.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Are you referencing me saying I called Compher old? I never said anything about him at all.

No, I was referencing someone else.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Because it's true. Yzerman is given so much more patience and forgiveness for bad signings that Holland or any GM would never be afforded because of his on ice history. It's always, poor Yzerman, he's ONLY had 5 years. Had any other GM made a nepo acquisition like Petry or signed Holl to a 3 year, 10 Million dollar, LMC deal to ride the pine, fans would be calling for his head.
Husso a 3 year 14+ mil NTC, to replace his previous failed acquisition, Nedeljkovic.
DeBrincat scored like a third of his goals in the first 2 weeks and had multiple double digit goal droughts. He was basically Compher, Fabbri, Sprong or Kubalik, without the PP ice time, and at nearly 8 milliion. Kane was supposed to light a fire under Cat. Didn't happen.

*yawn* Ok Kenny. Shouldn't you be focusing on the postseason?

No one is cutting Yzerman slack on the Holl signing. A lot of people just realized the hole he had to dig out of from Holland and the lack of a first overall pick during a strong draft year. Plenty of people give him grief for the Petry signing as well.

But you keep defending Kenny's honor. You should probably be defending some of the moves he made for the Oilers as well. He's gonna need it.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I don't like hearing that our D will probably be the same. I think that if we want to make the playoffs next year, we need to run something like:

Walman-Seider
Ed- Pesce/youngish 2nd pair D
C/M/P- AlJo
C/M/P


That means getting rid of Holl and one of Chiarot, Maatta and Petry, and then bringing in another top 6 D. That could be pretty costly in futures and it would be dumb to invest too many futures in the present when we're just a bubble team. That's still my ideal if we can make the cost work but I don't want to force it.


If we can't fix the defense then I guess this year is a "wait out the few mistakes Yzerman has made" year. We can just let Petry expire without having to pay to get rid of him. With fewer years, Holl or Copp may be trade-able for relatively cheap. If not, either could be bought out for fewer years than right now.


Our cap situation after next year is actually really good. Copp is going to be really rough and who knows how good Compher will be in 26-27. I can't believe Chiarot and Holl are both on the books through 25-26. Besides those everything is really good. We could very feasibly add a couple strong players while seeing our young kids take over the roster (by 2026 I expect Kasper, Danielson, ASP and Cossa will all be on the team with other solid shots at making it in AlJo, Wallinder, Mazur to go along a ton of long shots). If the kids that should hit do, and we manage to bring in ~2 good players I think we'll be okay. Aiming for end of season 2025-2026:


Cat- Larkin- Raymond
FA/Trade- Kasper/Danielson- Ras
Kasper/Danielson- Compher- Mazur/Berggren/FA
Copp and some 4th liners

Walman- Seider
Edvinsson- FA/Trade
Chiarot/AlJo- ASP
Chiarot/AlJo/Wallinder

Cossa
Backup

Then going into 26-27 we enter our actual contender years. The defense will be entering its final form. Larkin will be exiting his prime at 30 but hopefully Kasper/Danielson or someone else will have stepped in to at least share the 1C burden. That's the biggest question mark for me. If that doesn't happen we may never be better than the 2009 predators.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I don't like hearing that our D will probably be the same. I think that if we want to make the playoffs next year, we need to run something like:

Walman-Seider
Ed- Pesce/youngish 2nd pair D
C/M/P- AlJo
C/M/P


That means getting rid of Holl and one of Chiarot, Maatta and Petry, and then bringing in another top 6 D. That could be pretty costly in futures and it would be dumb to invest too many futures in the present when we're just a bubble team. That's still my ideal if we can make the cost work but I don't want to force it.


If we can't fix the defense then I guess this year is a "wait out the few mistakes Yzerman has made" year. We can just let Petry expire without having to pay to get rid of him. With fewer years, Holl or Copp may be trade-able for relatively cheap. If not, either could be bought out for fewer years than right now.


Our cap situation after next year is actually really good. Copp is going to be really rough and who knows how good Compher will be in 26-27. I can't believe Chiarot and Holl are both on the books through 25-26. Besides those everything is really good. We could very feasibly add a couple strong players while seeing our young kids take over the roster (by 2026 I expect Kasper, Danielson, ASP and Cossa will all be on the team with other solid shots at making it in AlJo, Wallinder, Mazur to go along a ton of long shots). If the kids that should hit do, and we manage to bring in ~2 good players I think we'll be okay. Aiming for end of season 2025-2026:


Cat- Larkin- Raymond
FA/Trade- Kasper/Danielson- Ras
Kasper/Danielson- Compher- Mazur/Berggren/FA
Copp and some 4th liners

Walman- Seider
Edvinsson- FA/Trade
Chiarot/AlJo- ASP
Chiarot/AlJo/Wallinder

Cossa
Backup

Then going into 26-27 we enter our actual contender years. The defense will be entering its final form. Larkin will be exiting his prime at 30 but hopefully Kasper/Danielson or someone else will have stepped in to at least share the 1C burden. That's the biggest question mark for me. If that doesn't happen we may never be better than the 2009 predators.

I don't understand mentioning Chiarot in the same breath as Holl or even Petry.

Chiarot played well this season and is one of the only Dmen who can handle big players in front of the net.

 

[Fynn]

Ken, you should probably spend less time posting on HFBoards and more time managing your team into another playoff loss.

Good to know you don't have anything further to dispute what was posted.

*yawn* Ok Kenny. Shouldn't you be focusing on the postseason?

No one is cutting Yzerman slack on the Holl signing. A lot of people just realized the hole he had to dig out of from Holland and the lack of a first overall pick during a strong draft year. Plenty of people give him grief for the Petry signing as well.

But you keep defending Kenny's honor. You should probably be defending some of the moves he made for the Oilers as well. He's gonna need it.

That's hilarious. No one hated Holland more than I did. I root against Edmonton at every turn. That's why it's so frustrating seeing Yzerman doing and saying all the same things and yet Holland sucked, but Yzerman is a great GM. Wait, didn't you just say it's been 5 years since Holland and you can't keep going back to him. But you just did.

There's plenty of Petry sucks, but no blaming Yzerman for it. Well, he might make bad moves, but it's Holland's fault! Thanks for proving my point.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

I think he is gonna try with the defense, but is not gonna commit and say yeah it'll be drastically different if certain guys don't wanna come here.

I mean the defense is gonna be different in some way with full time Edvinsson and Johansson at the very least. Petry was always gonna be back. Most of them still have term and could only see them moving out Holl or Maatta.

Honestly with how most of the free agent signings have gone, I'm ok with being quiet in that regard and playing ELC kids instead.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Good to know you don't have anything further to dispute what was posted.

That's hilarious. No one hated Holland more than I did. I root against Edmonton at every turn. That's why it's so frustrating seeing Yzerman doing and saying all the same things and yet Holland sucked, but Yzerman is a great GM. Wait, didn't you just say it's been 5 years since Holland and you can't keep going back to him. But you just did.

There's plenty of Petry sucks, but no blaming Yzerman for it. Well, he might make bad moves, but it's Holland's fault! Thanks for proving my point.

Saying I'm proving your point doesn't actually make it true. I guess you're skipping over all the posts talking about how Petry was a bad signing or criticizing Yzerman for a bad Michigan guy signing.

I'm talking about Holland because you were the one crying about him. There's no point disputing what you posted because it's not based in anything close to reality. I don't spend a lot of time disputing which direction the sun is gonna rise tomorrow either when someone insists it's gonna be the west.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

The problem with most of these "why aren't you guys also mad at Yzerman and demanding he gets fired!" crowd is they also talk in that extreme rage twitter type talk that's just so boring, that thread on the main forum is filled with it. Hard to want to even have a discussion with that shit.

Also all they ever have is free agent signings that don't mean dick all in the grand scheme of things, oh no we got Holl and Copp! What does this mean for the cup next year!?

This is gonna come down to draft picks as always and being able to make a trade, in which to me Yzerman has done extremely well at. Hence why the "any other GM would be fired!" talk just makes me laugh, prospects take time.

But go ahead rage away.

Agreed. I've popped into that thread to see some of the hot takes by people completely unfamiliar with the Wings.

Like I can enjoy the Sens and Sabres continuing to suck, but I wouldn't post on the main boards pretending to have an informed perspective about where they've gone wrong.

 

[Fynn]

Saying I'm proving your point doesn't actually make it true. I guess you're skipping over all the posts talking about how Petry was a bad signing or criticizing Yzerman for a bad Michigan guy signing.

I'm talking about Holland because you were the one crying about him. There's no point disputing what you posted because it's not based in anything close to reality. I don't spend a lot of time disputing which direction the sun is gonna rise tomorrow either when someone insists it's gonna be the west.

Yeah, I'm just crying about Holland. You literally just blamed Holland for Yzerman signing Holl. Fact. Reality.

Holland made plenty of poor decisions. But he also was dealt plenty of unforseen circumstances after taking over. Losing Konstantinov, Jiri Fischer, Datsyuk pledging his loyalty to mother Russia, Rafalski retiring early, Brad Stuart requesting a trade because of family reasons, Johan Franzen's career ending early due to concussions and mental health, losing out on Suter when he and Parise decided to pair up. He wasn't left with a lot of draft capital either which is what happens when you win that many cups. He didn't develop the guys who were supposed to take over like Nyquist, Tatar, Oulette, Sproull. Bad picks, poor coaching in the minors or left there too long? Don't know. He made bad situations worse by panic free agent signings with long term contracts. Yzerman is a bit better in that regard. Holland didn't adjust well to the salary cap.
Yes, the rebuild should have started way sooner than it did. Was that Holland's doing or the Ilitch family's directive? Don't know.

 

[Winger98]

No one is cutting Yzerman slack on the Holl signing.

Personally, I find the Holl signing a nothing burger.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Yeah, I'm just crying about Holland. You literally just blamed Holland for Yzerman signing Holl. Fact. Reality.

Holland made plenty of poor decisions. But he also was dealt plenty of unforseen circumstances after taking over. Losing Konstantinov, Jiri Fischer, Datsyuk pledging his loyalty to mother Russia, Rafalski retiring early, Brad Stuart requesting a trade because of family reasons, Johan Franzen's career ending early due to concussions and mental health, losing out on Suter when he and Parise decided to pair up. He wasn't left with a lot of draft capital either which is what happens when you win that many cups. He didn't develop the guys who were supposed to take over like Nyquist, Tatar, Oulette, Sproull. Bad picks, poor coaching in the minors or left there too long? Don't know. He made bad situations worse by panic free agent signings with long term contracts. Yzerman is a bit better in that regard. Holland didn't adjust well to the salary cap.
Yes, the rebuild should have started way sooner than it did. Was that Holland's doing or the Ilitch family's directive? Don't know.

I did no such thing. My comment about digging out from the hole Holland left was about why people aren't all over Yzerman for it being 5 years into the rebuild. I wasn't talking about Holl.

I'm not interested in relitigating the Holland era. He's gone. Get over it.

Personally, I find the Holl signing a nothing burger.

I think this year it's a nothing burger because he could sit in the press box, play if absolutely needed and didn't have a negative impact on cap space because there was room.

I'm not sure that will be the case in the next couple years. That $3.4 million and roster spot will matter more.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Personally, I find the Holl signing a nothing burger.

The Holl contract on its own doesn't really matter.

Once you add up Holl, Petry, Maatta, Copp, Husso, Chiarot, Perron you end up with 27 million in contracts for guys whose performances are literally replacement level. Guys like Husso and Holl who earned a combined 8 million this year and barely even played. 27 million that is doing nothing except making it harder to bring guys up, give guys the time they deserve, and/or sign better players. If you had the 8 million dollars from Holl/Copp available you could chase Reinhart, Marchessault, or Lindholm in the off-season.

Petry, Maatta, Husso are all out next year, and Chiarot seems to be improving, but we are stuck with Copp and Holl and that's why they are getting the attention.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

The Holl contract on its own doesn't really matter.

Once you add up Holl, Petry, Maatta, Copp, Husso, Chiarot, Perron you end up with 27 million in contracts for guys whose performances are literally replacement level. Guys like Husso and Holl who earned a combined 8 million this year and barely even played. 27 million that is doing nothing except making it harder to bring guys up, give guys the time they deserve, and/or sign better players. If you had the 8 million dollars from Holl/Copp available you could chase Reinhart, Marchessault, or Lindholm in the off-season.

Petry, Maatta, Husso are all out next year, and Chiarot seems to be improving, but we are stuck with Copp and Holl and that's why they are getting the attention.

Did they ever LTIR Husso ? I feel like he could've been but maybe there was no point? I'm not super familiar with how LTIR works.

 

[RRhoads]

Did they ever LTIR Husso ? I feel like he could've been but maybe there was no point? I'm not super familiar with how LTIR works.

No point. If they were gonna add a player with Husso putting them above the cap, it would be a point.

You only get cap relief for the money spent above the cap if you LTIR someone.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Did they ever LTIR Husso ? I feel like he could've been but maybe there was no point? I'm not super familiar with how LTIR works.

He may have gotten LTIR when he was injured before the conditioning stint in GR.

Even if he was healthy, though, his play was so poor that Reimer/Lyon were getting starts ahead of him.

The thought of a Husso/Lyon tandem next year is terrifying. IMO if Husso is getting a majority of starts the team will be a lottery team next year regardless of roster construction.

Addressing the G really should be Yzerman's top concern, and for as much as I've been blasting Copp, Husso should really be the buyout target after trading for a G.

 

[dalem177]

Serious question:

Chiarot got better this year - do we know that Holl or Petry can't get better?

 

[Fynn]

I did no such thing. My comment about digging out from the hole Holland left was about why people aren't all over Yzerman for it being 5 years into the rebuild. I wasn't talking about Holl.

I'm not interested in relitigating the Holland era. He's gone. Get over it.



I think this year it's a nothing burger because he could sit in the press box, play if absolutely needed and didn't have a negative impact on cap space because there was room.

I'm not sure that will be the case in the next couple years. That $3.4 million and roster spot will matter more.

A lot of people just realized the hole he had to dig out of from Holland and the lack of a first overall pick during a strong draft year.

Maybe take your own advice? At least own what you said.

 

[DanielMarois]

Serious question:

Chiarot got better this year - do we know that Holl or Petry can't get better?

Petry is turning 37, Holl sucked in TO too, they're not getting better.