Post-Game Talk: Laine TKO over Matthews - Jets Win 5-4 (OT)

[kylbaz]

Hutch stunk the first half of the game. That goal along the ice was bad, and the one where he was flopping like Pavs was worse, he couldve slid across laterally instead of thinking the guy would shoot from the corner.
He did make the clutch and timely saves tho in the third and OT. But our goalies need to be better than that, And I know Helly will be.
If that was Pavs in net he'd be ripped on this site.

Exactly. Fans here are unbelievable.

 

[garret9]

Exactly. Fans here are unbelievable.

Some are pretty believable.

Pavelec 0.907, 10751 shots <- basically known commodity
Hutchinson 0.911, 1950 shots <- some room for movement up/down as sample expands
Hellebuyck 0.914, 734 shots <- very much an unknown commodity at NHL level

Save percentage's meaningfulness is based on sample size. The industry standard is around 3K shots.

Do I believe the Jets' netminders have done well so far this season? No.
Does this mean they are equal or worse than Pavelec? No.

 

[Luc Labelle]

#neverforget

After reading so many posts on the GDT, PGT on both this board and the Leafs board as well as the Prospects area; I don't recall anyone making note of the backchecker on Laine's game winning hat trick goal. For those who keep insisting that Laine is slow or lacks first step quickness to succeed in the NHL, he actually pulls away from Matthews from the moment he received the puck all the way to his firing the game winning goal. Look how far back number 34 is as he admires Laine's shot hitting the back of the net.

One has to remember the pre-season game as well when McDavid scored the shorthanded goal when Myers stick broke. Laine caught up to McDavid just as he shot and scored. Laine's stick almost stopped the shot.

When it comes to the criticism of Laine not taking Matthews before the breakaway, both he and Ehlers had just jumped on the ice on a line change as the breakout pass to Matthews was being made.

 

[Aavco Cup]

^ while that is impressive for sure, Matthews had been on the ice for about a minute at that point while Laine was relatively fresh. BTW I'm the one who's been saying all along that Laine's skating is not a weakness.

 

[ijuka]

After reading so many posts on the GDT, PGT on both this board and the Leafs board as well as the Prospects area; I don't recall anyone making note of the backchecker on Laine's game winning hat trick goal. For those who keep insisting that Laine is slow or lacks first step quickness to succeed in the NHL, he actually pulls away from Matthews from the moment he received the puck all the way to his firing the game winning goal. Look how far back number 34 is as he admires Laine's shot hitting the back of the net.

One has to remember the pre-season game as well when McDavid scored the shorthanded goal when Myers stick broke. Laine caught up to McDavid just as he shot and scored. Laine's stick almost stopped the shot.

When it comes to the criticism of Laine not taking Matthews before the breakaway, both he and Ehlers had just jumped on the ice on a line change as the breakout pass to Matthews was being made.

As I noted earlier:

On that play, Patrik Laine moves from blue line to blue line as fast as Jack Eichel does here(accuracy is limited by the amount of FPS):



Laine might even be half a frame faster or so but 30 FPS limits accuracy.

 

[Festinator]

Guysss, I posted a "best jets chant" poll on the forums and you should all go vote (i've omitted the "laine's better" chant for obvious reasons)

 

[winnipegger]

Not only did Sportsnet botch the call by having the crowd muted, because of their monolithic ownership of hockey in Canada we missed what I would say was a generational call by Beyak. Should have been on TSN.

 

[Lempo]

After reading so many posts on the GDT, PGT on both this board and the Leafs board as well as the Prospects area; I don't recall anyone making note of the backchecker on Laine's game winning hat trick goal. For those who keep insisting that Laine is slow or lacks first step quickness to succeed in the NHL, he actually pulls away from Matthews from the moment he received the puck all the way to his firing the game winning goal. Look how far back number 34 is as he admires Laine's shot hitting the back of the net.

But at some point Matthews has realized that the window to catch Laine before he'll be in shooting position has closed, so it's correct choice to stop pushing for that lost play and see if there's a new one emerging.

Buuut there wasn't.

 

[puck stoppa]

Some are pretty believable.

Pavelec 0.907, 10751 shots <- basically known commodity
Hutchinson 0.911, 1950 shots <- some room for movement up/down as sample expands
Hellebuyck 0.914, 734 shots <- very much an unknown commodity at NHL level

Save percentage's meaningfulness is based on sample size. The industry standard is around 3K shots.

Do I believe the Jets' netminders have done well so far this season? No.
Does this mean they are equal or worse than Pavelec? No.

No, but hutchs time will soon run out. He had a few glorious chances and shows he can't find the consistency to be a number one. The sooner we turn to helly the better. Let hutch be a backup quick.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Exactly. Fans here are unbelievable.

You are ONE of them actually.
We just had 4 years of Pavelec blowing leads and generally being a bad goalie and you want him back ?
400 games isn't enough for you ?
Pot meet Kettle

 

[puck stoppa]

You are ONE of them actually.
We just had 4 years of Pavelec blowing leads and generally being a bad goalie and you want him back ?
400 games isn't enough for you ?
Pot meet Kettle

We don't want him back, just saying hutch has been very inconsistent in his opportunities and I think needs to be sharper and more consistent. He doesn't get the same leash from me like he does from others. Not defending pavs getting harshly criticized, but when will hutch step up or buzz off? Getting close to one or the other as far as starter role.

 

[ps241]

We don't want him back, just saying hutch has been very inconsistent in his opportunities and I think needs to be sharper and more consistent. He doesn't get the same leash from me like he does from others. Not defending pavs getting harshly criticized, but when will hutch step up or buzz off? Getting close to one or the other as far as starter role.

I look at Hutch as being a really solid NHL back up that we need for the Vegas draft. We all know Helly is more of the future but PMo isn't going to ride him until he gets hot. I have zero problems with a rotation for now and playing the hot hand and when a Helly is ready away we go.

I would love to have another 2014-15 where both goalies get hot at different times because quite frankly we will need that until the new year to have any chance of hanging in the playoff race.

 

[puck stoppa]

I look at Hutch as being a really solid NHL back up that we need for the Vegas draft. We all know Helly is more of the future but PMo isn't going to ride him until he gets hot. I have zero problems with a rotation for now and playing the hot hand and when a Helly is ready away we go.

I would love to have another 2014-15 where both goalies get hot at different times because quite frankly we will need that until the new year to have any chance of hanging in the playoff race.

It's his third real shot at the reigns. Career backup which I'm fine with, and agree about Vegas part but let's get helly rolling here, get him confident.

 

[kylbaz]

Some are pretty believable.

Pavelec 0.907, 10751 shots <- basically known commodity
Hutchinson 0.911, 1950 shots <- some room for movement up/down as sample expands
Hellebuyck 0.914, 734 shots <- very much an unknown commodity at NHL level

Save percentage's meaningfulness is based on sample size. The industry standard is around 3K shots.

Do I believe the Jets' netminders have done well so far this season? No.
Does this mean they are equal or worse than Pavelec? No.

That has nothing to do with my post. The point was someone(s) wanted to give Hutch credit for giving up four goals and playing good for a period of the game. Pavs would have been ripped apart for giving up four goals. People here would have been saying it wouldnt' have went to OT if we had a 'real' goalie.

I think Helle will be a fine goalie. You used save % which like you said the shots are too low for both of them. But both of them are affected greatly by hot starts. Is it fair to remove the hot stretch out and not the cold stretch? No. But what they've done lately compared to what they did their first 1-2 months in the season is more important to me. Do a save% graph for both of them from the start of their careers, you're going to see downhill trends for both of them.

As I mention below, Hutch can look really good in net. But I don't think he has the makeup to be number one. But maybe he can. But it just seems since he's been considered for the number one job, he just makes a mental mistake or two every game and it turns into a goal. Almost every single game he lets in a week goal that should have been a fairly easy save.

You are ONE of them actually.
We just had 4 years of Pavelec blowing leads and generally being a bad goalie and you want him back ?
400 games isn't enough for you ?
Pot meet Kettle

I'm not saying Pavs in the answer but he gets dumped on harder than he should. Our D is and has been terrible and no one wants to admit it. Buff is out of position or simply not tying the guy up in front of the net constantly, and somehow people here don't see that and defend Buff. I said at the beginning of the year watch Helle and Hutch struggle and watch people make the excuse that it's because Trouba isn't here. Our goaltending hasn't put up a game over .900% yet. As puckstoppa said, Hutch has been given the chance more than once to step up and become the number one, including last year, and he blew it every time. For some reason he lets in atleast one really soft goal every game. I don't know if it's mental or what, but he seems to let in one every game.

 

[CaptainChef]

We don't want him back, just saying hutch has been very inconsistent in his opportunities and I think needs to be sharper and more consistent. He doesn't get the same leash from me like he does from others. Not defending pavs getting harshly criticized, but when will hutch step up or buzz off? Getting close to one or the other as far as starter role.

What you dont seem to realize is that nobody is necessarily pushing for equal time for Hutch and Helly. Nor is management IMO. We're all waiting for and expecting Helly to take that next step. IMO it won't be long before that shapes up; although there will naturally be a wrinkle or two in that plan.

 

[CaptainChef]

T



I'm not saying Pavs in the answer but he gets dumped on harder than he should. Our D is and has been terrible and no one wants to admit it. Buff is out of position or simply not tying the guy up in front of the net constantly, and somehow people here don't see that and defend Buff. I said at the beginning of the year watch Helle and Hutch struggle and watch people make the excuse that it's because Trouba isn't here. Our goaltending hasn't put up a game over .900% yet. As puckstoppa said, Hutch has been given the chance more than once to step up and become the number one, including last year, and he blew it every time. For some reason he lets in atleast one really soft goal every game. I don't know if it's mental or what, but he seems to let in one every game.

If your whole point is that poor Pavs get dumped on harder than he should, I'd leave that one die. We've had 4 years of his crappy goaltending forced upon us because management wouldn't do anything with him. He's crappy and we all know it. End of story. If he ever makes it up here again, we'll likely be even harder on him because we've had it up to here with his type of tending.

Hutch, yes he's pushing it, but he still has potential (maybe). So we'll overlook the odd bad goal. Helly -- lots of potential; lots of patience with him.

 

[garret9]

That has nothing to do with my post. The point was someone(s) wanted to give Hutch credit for giving up four goals and playing good for a period of the game. Pavs would have been ripped apart for giving up four goals. People here would have been saying it wouldnt' have went to OT if we had a 'real' goalie.

I think Helle will be a fine goalie. You used save % which like you said the shots are too low for both of them. But both of them are affected greatly by hot starts. Is it fair to remove the hot stretch out and not the cold stretch? No. But what they've done lately compared to what they did their first 1-2 months in the season is more important to me. Do a save% graph for both of them from the start of their careers, you're going to see downhill trends for both of them.

As I mention below, Hutch can look really good in net. But I don't think he has the makeup to be number one. But maybe he can. But it just seems since he's been considered for the number one job, he just makes a mental mistake or two every game and it turns into a goal. Almost every single game he lets in a week goal that should have been a fairly easy save.

Sorry about the confusion to the point of your earlier post.

Yes and no.

I do believe a good or bad goalie can have 4 goals against and have a good game.
I also believe a good goalie is unlikely to consistently have games like that.

Now, by my own eyetest, Hutchinson did a very poor job at first (in part at fault for the high 4 goals against) and did well after so it wasn't worse. Optimally he should do good all game. Pavelec has done that, worse goalies have done that, and better goalies have done that. What Hutchinson still is has *some* to be seen.

As to the downtrend, I think that is disingenuous to overly focus on it just as much as if someone were to overly focus on the hot starts.

The way you should look at it is more like this:

Sorry for bad drawings. I'm in a rush. So not to scale haha.

Red = Pavelec
Blue = Hutchinson
Green = Hellebuyck

The downtrend causes the ceiling to collapse more than the floor. However, the fact that the overall result is still higher, it is still more likely than not that Hutch (and Helle) is better than Pavelec, even though he may be worse and even though the results are trending down.

Helle meanwhile has better results than both, and even though he is also downtrending, he is more likely to be better than Hutch than not... but he could be worse and the smaller sample means there is a greater unknown.

 

[raideralex99]

Hutch stunk the first half of the game. That goal along the ice was bad, and the one where he was flopping like Pavs was worse, he couldve slid across laterally instead of thinking the guy would shoot from the corner.
He did make the clutch and timely saves tho in the third and OT. But our goalies need to be better than that, And I know Helly will be.
If that was Pavs in net he'd be ripped on this site.

Grant Fuhr never had great numbers BUT when he had to make the big save in the 3rd period or OT he did and that is what counts.
Remember the Blues game a couple of years ago where they fought back to tie the game only to lose in the end by a long weak shot from the blue line that Pavs missed. See the difference.

 

[garret9]

Grant Fuhr never had great numbers BUT when he had to make the big save in the 3rd period or OT he did and that is what counts.
Remember the Blues game a couple of years ago where they fought back to tie the game only to lose in the end by a long weak shot from the blue line that Pavs missed. See the difference.

The more saves you make, the fewer timely saves you need to do.

 

[Eyeseeing]

We know what we HAD in Pavs
We do not know yet what we have in either Helle or Hutch but we do need to find out so THEY need to keep playing.
Pavs hopefully is in the past, barring injuries.
HF let's please move on from him....