Laine goal-drought watch: 15 games (ends 02/22)

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

This image belongs in the HHOF.

Lol. I remember that well. I was hoping that Ovie would end up with more goals than any other teammate had points.

Anyway, hope Laine can get it together and start scoring again. I'm a big fan.

 

[Tofveve]

Get a Fortnite intervention going. Being a momma's boy, having her live with you while making millions and being addicted to Fortnite is a major problem.

 

[grieves]

LOL, nice thread.

Laine needs an outlet to score. In his first season he played half a season with Scheifele and scored most of his goals with him and on the PP.

Second season he scored his goals on the PP and the other half with Stastny.

This season the PP is again broken (first unit has been for around 15 games now), and there is no new trade deadline "Stastny" addition yet. They had a good month when Connor was introduced to his line but went back to their old ways shortly thereafter, like they always do.

BUT there is no way the Jets are riding the Little-Laine combo into the playoffs if they have even an ounce of sense, which I think they do, so there should be another burst of offense on the horizon. The Little-Laine experiment has been going on for 160-ish games now without any success. They actually managed to downgrade that line by adding Roslovic.

Laine will be back with a vengeance once the team sorts itself out.

And yes, Laine has not been playing well himself. It's obvious this deployment is getting to him, but he seems to be getting out of the funk.

 

[Plural]

LOL, nice thread.

Laine needs an outlet to score. In his first season he played half a season with Scheifele and scored most of his goals with him and on the PP.

Second season he scored his goals on the PP and the other half with Stastny.

This season the PP is again broken (first unit has been for around 15 games now), and there is no new trade deadline "Stastny" addition yet. They had a good month when Connor was introduced to his line but went back to their old ways shortly thereafter, like they always do.

BUT there is no way the Jets are riding the Little-Laine combo into the playoffs if they have even an ounce of sense, which I think they do, so there should be another burst of offense on the horizon. The Little-Laine experiment has been going on for 160-ish games now without any success. They actually managed to downgrade that line by adding Roslovic.

Laine will be back with a vengeance once the team sorts itself out.

And yes, Laine has not been playing well himself. It's obvious this deployment is getting to him, but he seems to be getting out of the funk.

Do you now feel comfortable comparing his current season to OV's rookie season? I remember you being incredibly adamant about this being the "most fair" comparison to OV's rookie season. Seems like Laine is pacing well above Ovechkin so far.

 

[grieves]

Do you now feel comfortable comparing his current season to OV's rookie season? I remember you being incredibly adamant about this being the "most fair" comparison to OV's rookie season. Seems like Laine is pacing well above Ovechkin so far.

Of course I do. Just because I don't like the results doesn't mean I get to pick the rules.

Besides, I am familiar with the context for both players. Speculative and otherwise (playing time, PP time, physical development stage, scoring era etc.)

Also, I didn't think the Little-Laine thing would still be going on. I thought they wouldn't be brazen enough to keep doing it.

 

[Plural]

Of course I am. Just because I don't like the results doesn't mean I get to pick the rules.

Besides, I am familiar with the context for both players. Speculative and otherwise (playing time, PP time, physical development stage, scoring era etc.)

I'm just teasing you.

That said, I don't think there were more than few select people on the entire planet who actually thought Laine even stood a chance to become as good as Ovechkin. He does have a good chance to become the best goal-scorer of his generation and one of all-time greats. Lots of work to be done obviously, but I think he's that good.

He's not top-20 all-time player good though.

 

[grieves]

I'm just teasing you.

That said, I don't think there were more than few select people on the entire planet who actually thought Laine even stood a chance to become as good as Ovechkin. He does have a good chance to become the best goal-scorer of his generation and one of all-time greats. Lots of work to be done obviously, but I think he's that good.

He's not top-20 all-time player good though.

For his age he absolutely is. We wouldn't be even discussing this if he had a playmaker. Imagine what his numbers would be had he played with Scheifele instead of Little.

He is also the only player to score 40+ goals with less than 17min ice-time (or something along those lines). Not to mention the numerous records he has been breaking left and right.

I say again, once he is put into a position to succeed, he will explode.

 

[Plural]

For his age he absolutely is. We wouldn't be even discussing this if he had a playmaker. Imagine what his numbers would be had he played with Scheifele instead of Little.

He is also the only player to score 40+ goals with less than 17min ice-time (or something along those lines). Not to mention the numerous records he has been breaking left and right.

I say again, once he is put into a position to succeed, he will explode.

I was of the opinion that you were wrong previous years and I still think you're wrong. Laine is a huge complimentary piece and has huge potential as a goal-scorer. He has few really impressive feats under his belt (mainly his first two seasons goal-scoring and his Liiga playoff MVP) but he no longer should be going through this kind of adjustment period.

I get that he's having difficulties meshing well with Little and that's understandable. But if we would be talking about a player capable of making stuff happen on his own (which is the very minimum requirement for players who are supposedly on the level of Ovechkin/Crosby/McDavid) he would be able to put even some amount of points on the board. And it's not only that, his play looks god f***ing awful.

Simply put, he's going to have to improve his own game tremendously if he want's to be considered as one of the premier wingers in the game today. For him to reach a status where he could battle against some of the all-time greats like Brett Hull or Selänne is looking like a very tall order and something truly special needs to happen for him to take that next step. And I'm positive I talk for 99% of hockey fans around the globe that they never saw him having a realistic chance to be similar level player as Ovechkin.

But we will see as time goes by. I'll be pleasantly surprised if Laine gets to a "perennial rocket contender" status and stunned if he reaches "best winger in the game" status. I hope for both. But the truth is, if he wants to be the latter he is going to have to start driving the offense on his line by himself and the linemates excuse simply won't cut it.

 

[grieves]

I was of the opinion that you were wrong previous years and I still think you're wrong. Laine is a huge complimentary piece and has huge potential as a goal-scorer. He has few really impressive feats under his belt (mainly his first two seasons goal-scoring and his Liiga playoff MVP) but he no longer should be going through this kind of adjustment period.

I get that he's having difficulties meshing well with Little and that's understandable. But if we would be talking about a player capable of making stuff happen on his own (which is the very minimum requirement for players who are supposedly on the level of Ovechkin/Crosby/McDavid) he would be able to put even some amount of points on the board. And it's not only that, his play looks god ****ing awful.

Simply put, he's going to have to improve his own game tremendously if he want's to be considered as one of the premier wingers in the game today. For him to reach a status where he could battle against some of the all-time greats like Brett Hull or Selänne is looking like a very tall order and something truly special needs to happen for him to take that next step. And I'm positive I talk for 99% of hockey fans around the globe that they never saw him having a realistic chance to be similar level player as Ovechkin.

But we will see as time goes by. I'll be pleasantly surprised if Laine gets to a "perennial rocket contender" status and stunned if he reaches "best winger in the game" status. I hope for both. But the truth is, if he wants to be the latter he is going to have to start driving the offense on his line by himself and the linemates excuse simply won't cut it.

Yeah, nothing wrong with disagreements. Time will reveal who gets to wear the doofus hat, eh . I agree that right now Laine is not a very useful player because the team is refusing to use the good parts and trying to force the same porridge through the veins.

Laine is his own player. He is not physically ready yet and definitely not comparable to 20yo Ovie. Kind of like Ovie's shot is nowhere close to Laine's in terms of expected goals. Different players.

Being a physical bulldozer is not Laine's thing anyway (yet). Laine is a more cerebral player with by far the best shot in the league. It's like comparing Doomguy with Agent 47. Both have their own way of doing things.

Btw, appealing to consensus opinion is unnecessary as it is not a guarantee of anything, group animals that we are.

Oh, and for the record, Laine posted that 43 goals with 16:31 ice-time last season. So basically there was the PP and Stastny where he was able to do that, IN SPITE of playing with Little for 60-ish games on the season.

 

[Plural]

Yeah, nothing wrong with disagreements. Time will reveal who gets to wear the doofus hat, eh . I agree that right now Laine is not a very useful player because the team is refusing to use the good parts and trying to force the same porridge through the veins.

Laine is his own player. He is not physically ready yet and definitely not comparable to 20yo Ovie. Kind of like Ovie's shot is nowhere close to Laine's in terms of expected goals. Different players.

Being a physical bulldozer is not Laine's thing anyway (yet). Laine is a more cerebral player with by far the best shot in the league. It's like comparing Doomguy with Agent 47. Both have their own way of doing things.

Yeah, time will tell and nobody can predict the future. Maybe you end up being right. Wouldn't be the first time in sports where "the underdog" beats the odds.

Laine is his own player for sure and I'm not trying to say he needs to play similarly to Ovechkin. But in order to make the comparisons valid he needs to be at least comparable in terms of on ice impact. We can take in to account his issues with chemistry (which actually is starting to be a knock on him since he has to be able to be a high end player no matter who he plays with) and usage. But the fact remains, he hasn't shown he's capable of reaching that status of the absolute best players in the world. I'm not saying the issue is he hasn't gotten there yet. The issue is that only his biggest fans actually see him having a chance at that. The vast, vast majority of people who watch him see his potential as a goal-scorer but also the limits in his game and style that will prevent him reaching that upper-elite status.

And no, his shot is not by and far the best in the league. His shot has elements that are probably the best in the world but his shot is not some kind of model breaker as we've seen this season. He's going to be in the upper end of sh% even with big shot amount. That's why he's probably going to win few rockets. His shot simply is that good and possibly overall the best in the game. But if it truly would be by and far the best in the league he wouldn't be shooting at 4,1% for 100 consecutive shots. Even if his overall game has taken a step back, if his shot would be as good as you advertise he would be able to score on PP or when (on super rare occasion) his linemates feed him a prime scoring chance. This season, he hasn't been able to.

 

[FinRanger]

Hasn't played Fortnite since Monday, he gonna score tonight! But I'm guessing he plays the newest Battle Royal game Apex Predator.

 

[grieves]

Yeah, time will tell and nobody can predict the future. Maybe you end up being right. Wouldn't be the first time in sports where "the underdog" beats the odds.

Laine is his own player for sure and I'm not trying to say he needs to play similarly to Ovechkin. But in order to make the comparisons valid he needs to be at least comparable in terms of on ice impact. We can take in to account his issues with chemistry (which actually is starting to be a knock on him since he has to be able to be a high end player no matter who he plays with) and usage. But the fact remains, he hasn't shown he's capable of reaching that status of the absolute best players in the world. I'm not saying the issue is he hasn't gotten there yet. The issue is that only his biggest fans actually see him having a chance at that. The vast, vast majority of people who watch him see his potential as a goal-scorer but also the limits in his game and style that will prevent him reaching that upper-elite status.

And no, his shot is not by and far the best in the league. His shot has elements that are probably the best in the world but his shot is not some kind of model breaker as we've seen this season. He's going to be in the upper end of sh% even with big shot amount. That's why he's probably going to win few rockets. His shot simply is that good and possibly overall the best in the game. But if it truly would be by and far the best in the league he wouldn't be shooting at 4,1% for 100 consecutive shots. Even if his overall game has taken a step back, if his shot would be as good as you advertise he would be able to score on PP or when (on super rare occasion) his linemates feed him a prime scoring chance. This season, he hasn't been able to.

So you take one slump from a sample size of almost three seasons and say that the slump is not the anomaly, but the rest of his games even before the NHL are. Even when you can see a visible difference in how that player is carrying himself, with zero confidence. Not plausible in my books.

I'm trying to find the link for you with the expected goals rankings so you can see for yourself (the article about Laine's shot, anyone?). Laine basically doubles his expected goals. It's not about SH%. expected goals works differently as it calculates a lot more information, such as distance and shot type.

If you think it's starting to become a knock on Laine that after 160 games he is not developing chemistry, whereas he absolutely rips the league a new one with the correct linemates? He should just fundamentally change his player type and playing style. That is a pretty tall ask. I guess the 161st time is the charm.

Laine has been suffering from low confidence, which I completely understand.

But with a frame and injury history like that, I am not suprised the physical side is taking time. He'll get there.

Besides, he is already something like 100 NHL goals up on Ovie at the same age (Ovie scored 26 goals in total as an 18 + 19yo in the Russian league).

 

[Plural]

So you take one slump from a sample size of almost three seasons and say that the slump is not the anomaly, but the rest of his games even before the NHL are. Even when you can see a visible difference in how that player is carrying himself, with zero confidence. Not plausible in my books.

I'm trying to find the link for you with the expected goals rankings so you can see for yourself (the article about Laine's shot, anyone?). Laine basically doubles his expected goals. It's not about SH%. expected goals works differently as it calculates a lot more information, such as distance and shot type.

If you think it's starting to become a knock on Laine that after 160 games he is not developing chemistry, whereas he absolutely rips the league a new one with the correct linemates? He should just fundamentally change his player type and playing style. That is a pretty tall ask. I guess the 161st time is the charm.

Laine has been suffering from low confidence, which I completely understand.

But with a frame and injury history like that, I am not suprised the physical side is taking time. He'll get there.

Besides, he is already something like 100 NHL goals up on Ovie at the same age (Ovie scored 26 goals in total as an 18 + 19yo in the Russian league).

His shot is one of the best in the world and possibly the best. But it's not as much ahead as you claim. Albeit, this is a subjective opinion and we will know the answer to this (among many other questions) when time passes. I believe his shot is among the best if not the best. But it's not some superhuman ability he has.

I don't think his first two seasons were anomaly and this is the norm. He's in a slump that's all. But if his shot would be by and far the best in the league he wouldn't be able to put himself in a slump like this. Doesn't really matter though. Even if I would agree with you on that his shot is by and far the best in the world it still wouldn't be enough to put him among the absolute best players in the world.

Until he shows he can battle for the league lead in points and goals he won't be considered as one of the best in the world. Ovechkin (and other comparable players) were able to produce numbers at the top of the league no matter who they played with. Until Laine shows he has similar ability he won't be considered in the same tier. Will he? Most likely not but I guess anything is possible in sports.

I don't think the issue is solely about his raw physical development. He just doesn't have the tools to dominate the game similarly as Ovechkin had. I hope he proves me wrong and he did prove me wrong in the beginning of his career (I expected maximum of 30 or so goal pace his rookie season). But his lack of development so far is really concerning and the flaws people saw in his game in his first two seasons are now being exposed.

What comes to his goal-scoring start, it's nothing short of amazing. I don't think anyone else has ever finished top-10 in goals in their draft+1 and draft+2 seasons (and he finished 2nd in his sophomore season). This came with limited TOI and seemingly without chemistry with primary center. What concerns me is that when he is not put in favorable situation to use his shot he falls outside the game. So far, Laine hasn't shown he can use his skating/playmaking/puck handling/etc. to create time and scoring opportunities similarly as all-time greats we're comparing him to have.

And I would be absolutely shocked if he's going to be up on goals compared to OV when he's 33 years old. There's been one player in the history of the game with more goals than Ovechkin has at the same age. That guy is Wayne Gretzky. There is some merit to these "most goals before turning 20" comparisons but they're very limited because vast majority of players simply don't have the chance to play at that age. I know your opinion on Ovechkin and his RSL numbers. But there is a reason why he was the consensus #1 OA pick and there was only one guy deemed to even have a viable chance to be picked ahead of him. Funnily enough that same guy had 3 goals and 9 assists in 34 games in the same league. Still, all professional scouts saw that those two were special players and they were unanimously considered as historically strong #1 and #2 picks. Not at all surprisingly both guys went on to dominate the NHL for years and are unanimously considered as the two best players since the -05 lockout after Sidney Crosby.

 

[Kevs Security]

Laine is going to score twice against Vegas and this thread will become even more unreadable than it is right now.

 

[grieves]

His shot is one of the best in the world and possibly the best. But it's not as much ahead as you claim. Albeit, this is a subjective opinion and we will know the answer to this (among many other questions) when time passes. I believe his shot is among the best if not the best. But it's not some superhuman ability he has.

I don't think his first two seasons were anomaly and this is the norm. He's in a slump that's all. But if his shot would be by and far the best in the league he wouldn't be able to put himself in a slump like this. Doesn't really matter though. Even if I would agree with you on that his shot is by and far the best in the world it still wouldn't be enough to put him among the absolute best players in the world.

Until he shows he can battle for the league lead in points and goals he won't be considered as one of the best in the world. Ovechkin (and other comparable players) were able to produce numbers at the top of the league no matter who they played with. Until Laine shows he has similar ability he won't be considered in the same tier. Will he? Most likely not but I guess anything is possible in sports.

I don't think the issue is solely about his raw physical development. He just doesn't have the tools to dominate the game similarly as Ovechkin had. I hope he proves me wrong and he did prove me wrong in the beginning of his career (I expected maximum of 30 or so goal pace his rookie season). But his lack of development so far is really concerning and the flaws people saw in his game in his first two seasons are now being exposed.

What comes to his goal-scoring start, it's nothing short of amazing. I don't think anyone else has ever finished top-10 in goals in their draft+1 and draft+2 seasons (and he finished 2nd in his sophomore season). This came with limited TOI and seemingly without chemistry with primary center. What concerns me is that when he is not put in favorable situation to use his shot he falls outside the game. So far, Laine hasn't shown he can use his skating/playmaking/puck handling/etc. to create time and scoring opportunities similarly as all-time greats we're comparing him to have.

And I would be absolutely shocked if he's going to be up on goals compared to OV when he's 33 years old. There's been one player in the history of the game with more goals than Ovechkin has at the same age. That guy is Wayne Gretzky. There is some merit to these "most goals before turning 20" comparisons but they're very limited because vast majority of players simply don't have the chance to play at that age. I know your opinion on Ovechkin and his RSL numbers. But there is a reason why he was the consensus #1 OA pick and there was only one guy deemed to even have a viable chance to be picked ahead of him. Funnily enough that same guy had 3 goals and 9 assists in 34 games in the same league. Still, all professional scouts saw that those two were special players and they were unanimously considered as historically strong #1 and #2 picks. Not at all surprisingly both guys went on to dominate the NHL for years and are unanimously considered as the two best players since the -05 lockout after Sidney Crosby.

The whole point of the expected goals measurement is that we have some metric to evaluate. It's not subjective like you said. Not at all.

Maybe the measure of a true player is to suddenly create chemistry with players you have no chemistry with after 160 games, but I think that's not a realistic measurement. Feel free but it doesn't seem like an intelligent way to approach this.

Right now the data indicates that if you give Laine a player he meshes with, he will absolutely tear the league apart. With Stastny he immediately broke MacKinnon's teenage point streak record. Just another record but who's counting.

I'm not that interested in how he is perceived right now. Every player is an individual and have to go through development. I'm more interested in the final product.

Right now Laine is just the guy who broke a record by scoring a lot with little ice-time.

And don't get me started on how much PP time Ovie got in his 20yo season. It's like they barely played 5v5 at all.

 

[Plural]

The whole point of the expected goals measurement is that we have some metric to evaluate. It's not subjective like you said. Not at all.

Maybe the measure of a true player is to suddenly create chemistry with players you have no chemistry with after 160 games, but I think that's not a realistic measurement. Feel free but it doesn't seem like an intelligent way to approach this.

Right now the data indicates that if you give Laine a player he meshes with, he will absolutely tear the league apart. With Stastny he immediately broke MacKinnon's teenage point streak record. Just another record but who's counting.

I'm not that interested in how he is perceived right now. Every player is an individual and have to go through development. I'm more interested in the final product.

Right now Laine is just the guy who broke a record by scoring a lot with little ice-time.

And don't get me started on how much PP time Ovie got in his 20yo season. It's like they barely played 5v5 at all.

Yeah, this is just a difference in POV. You stick to your guns and I appreciate it (and you're not being obnoxious about it either, props on that too).

There really is not much common ground for us here, since we seem to evaluate Laine and players in general in such a different fashion.

We will see how Laine progresses and how his career turns out. So far it's been an incredible rollercoaster ride with high ups and low lows. He did do very well his first two seasons and I think he more than deserves next season to show what he can do. Maybe he takes the right turns and ends up fixing most of his holes in his game.

I know I sound like I dislike him as a player but that's not it. I'm just overtly critical Finn with propensity to pessimism. I've been like this to my favorite players forever. You should have seen me when Ovechkin was playing like crap (compared to his former self) after the Olympics.

Nevertheless, I hope Laine gets his game together and shows me how he can be one of the best in the world.

 

[grieves]

Yeah, this is just a difference in POV. You stick to your guns and I appreciate it (and you're not being obnoxious about it either, props on that too).

There really is not much common ground for us here, since we seem to evaluate Laine and players in general in such a different fashion.

We will see how Laine progresses and how his career turns out. So far it's been an incredible rollercoaster ride with high ups and low lows. He did do very well his first two seasons and I think he more than deserves next season to show what he can do. Maybe he takes the right turns and ends up fixing most of his holes in his game.

I know I sound like I dislike him as a player but that's not it. I'm just overtly critical Finn with propensity to pessimism. I've been like this to my favorite players forever. You should have seen me when Ovechkin was playing like crap (compared to his former self) after the Olympics.

Nevertheless, I hope Laine gets his game together and shows me how he can be one of the best in the world.

Absolutely, talking about stuff is fun and it wouldn't be interesting without opposition. Men are combative when talking to each other always so it's completely normal (assuming you are a man, which most posters on a hockey forum undoubtedly are). We enjoy fighting even though it annoys us half the time . Luckily we also have the ability to get over fights quickly.

I respect your opinions as well, and since time will tell anyway, we can leave it at this . I also respect that you are not a blind fanboy just because of your home country.

Respectful disagreements and criticisms are always ok. I don't mind even the disrespectful ones because I'm not the one showing my true colors to the whole world.

 

[Eso]

Funny how this topic has already reached 26 pages (and Laine's drought is still on)...

But hey! He had an assist on only goal agaist Avs last night!

 

[Andon]

Hasn't played Fortnite since Monday, he gonna score tonight! But I'm guessing he plays the newest Battle Royal game Apex Predator.

Another guess would be that he just uses a more secret Fortnite account now, since everyone knows about that NallePuh account and can check the stats and when he plays. Should have quit that account long ago.

 

[LeeIFBB]

ripip laine

 

[Outofbodyinhungary]

Thread close

 

[jetsforever]

It's over!!!

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Golden Knights are playing like an AHL team, doesn't count.

 

[CaptainShark]

Time to start a new one?

 

[Cellee]

He did a great job freeing up Scheifele to make that goal happen.

Atta boy, Patty!