Laine’s off-season training (see warning in post 832)

[DRW204]

if he aint posting it on social media, is he really training?

 

[Legend Leinonen]

Did Aki Berg train under Rautala (Aki being Turku-lad)? I think he's a interesting case considering this topic since I remember there was a lot of fuss about his excellent skating in his draft days. He was seen as rare combination of size and top end skating. Anyway Aki Berg somewhat flopped and I think big reason was because his much advertised skating seemed to almost regress from his draft days. Of course he had problems in other areas like hockey IQ too... but anyway…

Aki is still a big lad by the way

 

[Hunter368]

Laine looked sluggish and wasn't moving his feet enough during the first part of the year which was a factor in his first half uneven play. It wasn't just his linemates fault.

While I am sure there is some logic behind his training methods how do you think the team as a whole would perform if they all partook in the ame program where it takes the player half the year to really hit their stride? Imo despite the talent the team would be well out of a playoff spot.

The simple fact is that there are numerous young players in this league at various points in their physical development, but a great many of them have no issue being prepared to hit the ground running.

I really don't believe it should be acceptable for anyone to take half the season to get going especially when there are other methods and coaches out there that are able to get players prepped and ready to go for the start of October.

If Laine is sluggish again for chunk of the first half of the year then I would seriously start to question his routine.

Having said that I don't expect that to happen again as he was clearly annoyed with himself for his early season performance that I expect he will be ready to play at a high level at the start of the year.

Agreed

I'm going to be seriously annoyed if I hear he didn't skate this summer, skating is by far his biggest weakness overall. Skating is the key to driving offence and back checking and transion game thru middle ice. Practice freaking skating, work on every single day........so annoying seeing Laine coast out on the ice when you know he could be one of the best with his talent if he just skated hard. Endurance is also another factor he needs to improve.

 

[Board Bard]

Interesting interview with a Tampa reporter on the Big Show this morning. Seems Braydon Point was an average skater when drafted, but after working with freelance skating coach Bob Underhill he has become a very good skater. Sounds like the key coaching points involved technique, not strength training. Obviously Laine is a bigger guy but even so he would probably benefit from that kind of technique coaching.

At about the 1:08 mark.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/winnipeg-1290/the-big-show-july-19-2018-1.1143058

 

[Tommigun]

Having said that I don't expect that to happen again as he was clearly annoyed with himself for his early season performance that I expect he will be ready to play at a high level at the start of the year.

The problem here is that Laine was recently quoted as saying “boys play in the autumn, men in the spring”, where was alluding to going through exactly the same program with the same half a year recovery. So unfortunately it will happen again. I think the Jets management should intervene and cut Rautala loose.

 

[Ippenator]

The problem here is that Laine was recently quoted as saying “boys play in the autumn, men in the spring”, where was alluding to going through exactly the same program with the same half a year recovery. So unfortunately it will happen again. I think the Jets management should intervene and cut Rautala loose.

Or more likely they know things better than you...

 

[Tommigun]

Or more likely they know things better than you...

But surixon has a good point that if everyone partook in the same training as Laine the team would be out of contention by the time they find their legs. It is not standard procedure to go about it that way, and I don’t see why one player should be allowed to be exempt.

 

[Psych0dad]

But surixon has a good point that if everyone partook in the same training as Laine the team would be out of contention by the time they find their legs. It is not standard procedure to go about it that way, and I don’t see why one player should be allowed to be exempt.

Laines legs were just fine in pre-season and he kicked ass. He "lost his legs" when they threw him in with Little. Same happened in his calder run, move to Little line made him look shitty. And he immediately finds his legs even when Copp plays C instead of Little.

No chemistry leads to playing looking lost, they can't use their hockey IQ to anticipate and position, when a teammate is thinking of a totally different play. It becomes reactionary, chasing, instead of proactive.

 

[Tommigun]

Laines legs were just fine in pre-season and he kicked ass. He "lost his legs" when they threw him in with Little. Same happened in his calder run, move to Little line made him look ****ty. And he immediately finds his legs even when Copp plays C instead of Little.

No chemistry leads to playing looking lost, they can't use their hockey IQ to anticipate and position, when a teammate is thinking of a totally different play. It becomes reactionary, chasing, instead of proactive.

I agree that Laine should never EVER play with Little again, but he himself has stated that it takes half a year for him to find his legs due to his off-season training. I just posted a recent quote from him alluding to this fact. This is not made up, it’s from Laine’s own interviews.

 

[Psych0dad]

I agree that Laine should never EVER play with Little again, but he himself has stated that it takes half a year for him to find his legs due to his off-season training. I just posted a recent quote from him alluding to this fact. This is not made up, it’s from Laine’s own interviews.

Yeah and I have always put it in the category of "I have to blame myself because I can't blame the chemistry with this vet they force me to play with because then I would be shit on". Hockey jargon is often just lip service. The whole culture is "never shift blame even if it was warranted". Laine has often said he is happy to be playing with Little, but when they got Stastny he had trouble holding his excitement.

He knows you don't throw teammates under the bus. Us fans have that freedom, we can take that into account. They can't say it.

 

[Whileee]

Laines legs were just fine in pre-season and he kicked ass. He "lost his legs" when they threw him in with Little. Same happened in his calder run, move to Little line made him look ****ty. And he immediately finds his legs even when Copp plays C instead of Little.

No chemistry leads to playing looking lost, they can't use their hockey IQ to anticipate and position, when a teammate is thinking of a totally different play. It becomes reactionary, chasing, instead of proactive.

Laine said himself in late October that he had heavy legs, and hoped he could have them back after Christmas.

 

[Tommigun]

Yeah and I have always put it in the category of "I have to blame myself because I can't blame the chemistry with this vet they force me to play with because then I would be **** on". Hockey jargon is often just lip service. The whole culture is "never shift blame even if it was warranted". Laine has often said he is happy to be playing with Little, but when they got Stastny he had trouble holding his excitement.

He knows you don't throw teammates under the bus. Us fans have that freedom, we can take that into account. They can't say it.

No matter what he says or doesn’t say about his teammates, those quotes are from when was talking about his summer training. Are you saying he’s pre-emptively making up comments in case he’s asked about his teammates the following season? Also, he said the same thing about taking half a year to find his legs before last season even started, before ELL was cemented in any way. No.

He clearly, without any ambiguity, when asked about his summer training, says it’s directly responsible for a slow start to the season.

 

[Ippenator]

I agree that Laine should never EVER play with Little again, but he himself has stated that it takes half a year for him to find his legs due to his off-season training. I just posted a recent quote from him alluding to this fact. This is not made up, it’s from Laine’s own interviews.

He never said that his legs were totally lost. Just that it took some time to get them moving even better. It’s naive to think that any player plays with their peak skating for the full season. The peak is always somewhere during the season. A stupid player makes his training in the way that his peak condition is right away in the beginning of the season. And very rarely players do so. But with most of the players the need to train especially their leg muscles is not at all as big as in Laine’s situation, so the build for the training can’t be exactly the same.

Anyway really stupid to compare any individual player’s training to any bigger groups training. Laine has chosen to train a lot of his summer with Rautala, because he is an expert with great results in the areas that are Laine’s biggest weaknesses in hockey - which are the lack of explosive power in his legs and the young big sized player’s stamina, which is below the NHL average for most of the young players of his size. People are here completely not understanding the needs for different training for different individuals. Simply based on their weaknesses.

 

[GaryPoppins]

I believe he said he came in a little heavier than the year previous which is a common second year mistake. He'll be lean, mean and ready to go.

 

[Tommigun]

He never said that his legs were totally lost. Just that took some time to get them moving even better. It’s naive to think that any player plays with their peak skating for the full season. The peak is always somewhere during the season. A stupid player makes his training in the way that his peaks condition is right away in the beginning of the season. And very rarely players do so. But with most of the players the need to train especially their leg muscles is not at all as big as in Laine’s situation, so the build for the training can’t be exactly the same.

Anyway really stupid to compare any individual player’s training to any bigger groups training. Laine has chosen to train a lot of his summer with Rautala, because he is an expert with great results in the areas that are Laine’s biggest weaknesses in hockey - which are the lack of explosive power in his legs and the young big sized player’s stamina, which is below the NHL average for most of the young players of his size. People are here completely not understanding the needs for different training for different individuals. Simply based on their weaknesses.

No he said exactly that — he has stated on multiple occasions that he had heavy legs due to his summer training. There really isn’t any ambiguity there, none, and the quotes are crystal clear. There’s no way to misinterpret them.

Also, what are the great results by Rautala you are referring to? And even if there were a lot of those, it still is not a good thing to train like that if it makes you piggy-back on your teammates for half a season.

 

[Psych0dad]

I know he and Rautala said before season started that he won't be "loose" at the start but then he was pretty good in pre season. So I think we would have seen more of that in regular season if he had stayed in 1st. And after his stiffness would be gone he would be even better. It wouldn't have been highlighted at all but playing with Little it was...the lack of chemistry didn't allow him to compensate for the stiffness with positioning.

I'm aware they are building his core and leg muscle to be able to move tgat frame better, and it will take some focus from the finer detail work. But that's what they have chosen to be the best for his development based on individual needs. A flyweight Jeff Skinner or McDavid can focus on figure skating training early on, they don't have to haul a 6'5 frame around. But they will never have that frame, Laine can take figure skating lessons after he has acquired the engine to effectively move it. Barkov didn't do that either until he had enough muscle to control the movement better.

Players are individuals and different individuals have different advantages and different areas of development needed. It seems that Jets and Laine agree on how he should proceed. First develop the engine, then start working on details and edge work. His skating isn't bad, his acceleration is. A truck needs a bigger engine than a tiny sportscar to have a chance in acceleration. An underpowered truck is an underpowered truck even if it has some great turn handling etc.

 

[Tommigun]

[...] compensate for the stiffness with positioning.

I know, it’s hard. *wink*

 

[Tommigun]

I know he and Rautala said before season started that he won't be "loose" at the start but then he was pretty good in pre season. So I think we would have seen more of that in regular season if he had stayed in 1st. And after his stiffness would be gone he would be even better. It wouldn't have been highlighted at all but playing with Little it was...the lack of chemistry didn't allow him to compensate for the stiffness with positioning.

I'm aware they are building his core and leg muscle to be able to move tgat frame better, and it will take some focus from the finer detail work. But that's what they have chosen to be the best for his development based on individual needs. A flyweight Jeff Skinner or McDavid can focus on figure skating training early on, they don't have to haul a 6'5 frame around. But they will never have that frame, Laine can take figure skating lessons after he has acquired the engine to effectively move it. Barkov didn't do that either until he had enough muscle to control the movement better.

Players are individuals and different individuals have different advantages and different areas of development needed. It seems that Jets and Laine agree on how he should proceed. First develop the engine, then start working on details and edge work. His skating isn't bad, his acceleration is. A truck needs a bigger engine than a tiny sportscar to have a chance in acceleration. An underpowered truck is an underpowered truck even if it has some great turn handling etc.

No seriously you probably have valid points but Laine has said so many times that his first half of the season is affected by his training that it shouldn’t be up for debate. And I think Jets management will intervene soon to put a stop to it.

 

[Psych0dad]

He has 80 goals as a teen and Jets know they have given him mainly 2nd line duty and forced him in with Little.

He scored 44 goals with low icetime. In fact, nobody else has scored even 40 with that low icetime in the NHL history since icetime has been registered.

So are you saying he isn't making anything out of his less than optimal circumstances? Is that why Jets need to intervene? Because he just beat Crosby and Gretzky in teenage scoring, i guess he needed to beat them by more, despite the era beimg a lot harder to score in.

Yeah I don't see the same problem. I see he has acceleration issues for sure, and stamina as well. He is working in those, so in a few years I see a different problem ...who the hell can contain him even a little bit when he does have good acceleration and stamina and strength? Positive problems to have. He is still historically great, despite hitting mainly curveballs from Maurice. He definitely hasn't been given anything, he showed he was a 1st liner immediately in first season but he hasn't seen much if it because Jets have other prospects to coddle and some vets to suck up to.

 

[Whileee]

I know he and Rautala said before season started that he won't be "loose" at the start but then he was pretty good in pre season. So I think we would have seen more of that in regular season if he had stayed in 1st. And after his stiffness would be gone he would be even better. It wouldn't have been highlighted at all but playing with Little it was...the lack of chemistry didn't allow him to compensate for the stiffness with positioning.

I'm aware they are building his core and leg muscle to be able to move tgat frame better, and it will take some focus from the finer detail work. But that's what they have chosen to be the best for his development based on individual needs. A flyweight Jeff Skinner or McDavid can focus on figure skating training early on, they don't have to haul a 6'5 frame around. But they will never have that frame, Laine can take figure skating lessons after he has acquired the engine to effectively move it. Barkov didn't do that either until he had enough muscle to control the movement better.

Players are individuals and different individuals have different advantages and different areas of development needed. It seems that Jets and Laine agree on how he should proceed. First develop the engine, then start working on details and edge work. His skating isn't bad, his acceleration is. A truck needs a bigger engine than a tiny sportscar to have a chance in acceleration. An underpowered truck is an underpowered truck even if it has some great turn handling etc.

I'm trying to understand how Laine's obvious lack of power and quickness and agility in skating has anything to do with his linemates. Imagine how silly it would be if Laine blamed his sluggishness on his linemate. It's just as silly here.

 

[Ippenator]

No seriously you probably have valid points but Laine has said so many times that his first half of the season is affected by his training that it shouldn’t be up for debate. And I think Jets management will intervene soon to put a stop to it.

He practically said that they had planned his training in a way that he might be a tad stiff for some part of the season and that it should start becoming gradually better during the season. Nothing wrong in anything like that, and that’s how things went for him anyway after all.

He did not say that his skating was crap or anything like that for any part of the season. It has been people and their stupid hyperboles doing that here.

 

[Whileee]

Still think Laine needs to work on his skating in the offseason like many other NHL players do, and can't think of a good reason for him to avoid it.

 

[Psych0dad]

I'm trying to understand how Laine's obvious lack of power and quickness and agility in skating has anything to do with his linemates. Imagine how silly it would be if Laine blamed his sluggishness on his linemate. It's just as silly here.

You can ignore the fact that he looks a million times better away from Little. Even within games.

I can't. And I pointed out why that is. His weaknesses are highlighted with linemates who can't read his plays and who he can't read. A "stiff" Laine is still the most effective winger if he plays with the right people. A stiff Laine looks lost with a player who has a completely different play in mind. A stiff Laine will look a lot better with chemistry.

 

[Psych0dad]

Still think Laine needs to work on his skating in the offseason like many other NHL players do, and can't think of a good reason for him to avoid it.

He won't avoid it. It's just not priority yet.

And you don't have to think of the hood reasons for it, we have already written them down in this thread

 

[Tommigun]

He won't avoid it. It's just not priority yet.

And you don't have to think of the hood reasons for it, we have already written them down in this thread

Why do other young players skate, and look good at it then? Are they doing it wrong? There are other big kids out there as well.