Rumor: LA Kings looking at Markov

[Lafleurs Guy]

If you can't get a stud prospect you may as well keep him. He'll make a bigger impact sheltering and helping a kid like Beaulieu and then Tinordi/Pateryn than giving him away for B prospects and having to rush kids into 20-22 minutes a game.

He's not going to make a huge impact on those kids... We have Subban for that.

If you can get a good prospect (preferably a blueliner) then do it. The prospect doesn't have to be Seth Jones. I have no idea who's out there or who teams would be willing to deal. And to be honest, if Markov's negotitiating his own deal and wants to stay, I don't think this is going to happen at all.

In principle though, I agree with dealing him if the return is for prospects that can help us. It doesn't have to be for a young Markov... you aren't going to get that. But it makes sense to maximize the asset before it comes to it's end of life.

And the whole mentoring thing is a red herring. Subban didn't need a mentor and he can hold the rookies' hands.

 

[Tuggy]

Or even better yet, when LA still had Gretzky

Desharnais - Gretzky - Pacioretty

As if Therrien would move Desharnais to the wing for Gretzky.

 

[ZARTONK]

We should go after that Kopitir, Kopititor, Kapital?... guy.

 

[PricePkPatch*]

Markov would add a lot more to their offense than a 3rd line rookie not producing.

Bottom line the Habs can trade him elsewhere for a comparable young player if LA won't move him...just saying if they can't at least get a young player like that, keep him.

They will not scuttle part of their own offence for a marginal scoring improvement.

If they want to do a genuine cup run, it'll be with all of their best active assets, and Toffoli is part of that. Even if he is in a slump at the moment, it doesn't mean they have given up on him.

We may get genuine bluechip prospects out of a Contender team, but it will be unproven prospects - prospects who aren't producing at the NHL level right now, and thus won't be an immediate factor for a contending team.

 

[SpeedyPotato]

They will not scuttle part of their own offence for a marginal scoring improvement.

If they want to do a genuine cup run, it'll be with all of their best active assets, and Toffoli is part of that. Even if he is in a slump at the moment, it doesn't mean they have given up on him.

We may get genuine bluechip prospects out of a Contender team, but it will be unproven prospects - prospects who aren't producing at the NHL level right now, and thus won't be an immediate factor for a contending team.

I tend to agree... I think that if they trade him to a contending team, the return will be similar to the one they got for Halak... A good prospect that is NHL ready but not yet established and +, which could be a pick or another prospect that is younger and farther from the NHL.

 

[PricePkPatch*]

I tend to agree... I think that if they trade him to a contending team, the return will be similar to the one they got for Halak... A good prospect that is NHL ready but not yet established and +, which could be a pick or another prospect that is younger and farther from the NHL.

Basically this. This isn't a shot taken at MonctonScout's capacity to evaluate talent.

It's a shot taken at his ability to understand basic priorities for GMs

 

[le_sean]

He's their 8th scorer, having 20 points in 40-something games while being on the 2nd worst offence of the NHL.

At this point, the Kings are gonna keep whatever offence they already have. They will NOT give up Toffoli if they are serious about a cup run. Get real and wake up.

Exactly.

They would be acquiring Markov for the offence he brings, especially on the PP. It would be extremely counter-productive to trade offence in Toffoli for offence in Markov. Smart teams do not do this. Toffoli is the heir to Justin Williams.

Forbort interests me more than Pearson though. Pearson just reminds me of players the Habs already have.

 

[1993]

Basically this. This isn't a shot taken at MonctonScout's capacity to evaluate talent.

It's a shot taken at his ability to understand basic priorities for GMs

If they don't give Toffoli you move him to another team. LA has a window to win another championship so if they really think they need Markov to win it, they will give us Toffoli. Anaheim, Colorado, & San Jose can also offer us a good package.

 

[Monctonscout]

He's not going to make a huge impact on those kids... We have Subban for that.

If you can get a good prospect (preferably a blueliner) then do it. The prospect doesn't have to be Seth Jones. I have no idea who's out there or who teams would be willing to deal. And to be honest, if Markov's negotitiating his own deal and wants to stay, I don't think this is going to happen at all.

In principle though, I agree with dealing him if the return is for prospects that can help us. It doesn't have to be for a young Markov... you aren't going to get that. But it makes sense to maximize the asset before it comes to it's end of life.

And the whole mentoring thing is a red herring. Subban didn't need a mentor and he can hold the rookies' hands.

The "mentoring" is the difference between wining franchises and ones like Edmonton or Columbus that can't develop young players.

It's also not just about mentoring, it's about breaking in guys gradually. Unfortunately when Subban broke in, Markov was injured and he was thrust in a bigger role than he was ready for his first couple years and had some ups and downs. Subban is tough mentally and handled it and came out ok, but that's not always the case.

Throwing Beaulieu into a #2-3 role this year and next is stupid and recipe to blow up. Let the kid develop at 17-18 minutes.

 

[PricePkPatch*]

If they don't give Toffoli you move him to another team. LA has a window to win another championship so if they really think they need Markov to win it, they will give us Toffoli. Anaheim, Colorado, & San Jose can also offer us a good package.

That's not how it works. Maybe in Fantasy Land or your NHL13 game it does, but not in real life.

A GM is not going to dispose of a producing asset on the verge of a cup run, unless the asset you acquire in return is taking up his place.

If you want an NHL-ready prospect who has an established track record for Markov, then it'll be a Defenseman.

 

[Monctonscout]

Exactly.

They would be acquiring Markov for the offence he brings, especially on the PP. It would be extremely counter-productive to trade offence in Toffoli for offence in Markov. Smart teams do not do this. Toffoli is the heir to Justin Williams.

Forbort interests me more than Pearson though. Pearson just reminds me of players the Habs already have.

So you add Gionta to the package and get a 2nd back. I'm sure for this year Gionta brings more to the table, he can add at least as much offense plus, can help them on PK and defensively, guy that's won the cup etc. Even if you have to retain 25-50% of both cap hits to make it work or take Greene or Mitchell as a dump.

 

[Monctonscout]

That's not how it works. Maybe in Fantasy Land or your NHL13 game it does, but not in real life.

A GM is not going to dispose of a producing asset on the verge of a cup run, unless the asset you acquire in return is taking up his place.

If you want an NHL-ready prospect who has an established track record for Markov, then it'll be a Defenseman.

He's playing 11 minutes a game and has 2 points the last 6 weeks...not like he would be trading a top 6 forward...talk about overdramatizing.

 

[SpeedyPotato]

If they don't give Toffoli you move him to another team. LA has a window to win another championship so if they really think they need Markov to win it, they will give us Toffoli. Anaheim, Colorado, & San Jose can also offer us a good package.

If you want Toffoli, IMO, you'll have to give them a forward that can contribute right now.. Now maybe you get Toffoli + for Markov +, but this team has had struggle scoring .. Not sure they give up a young stud who's ready to break out unless they get a forward in return in that deal.. and no Bourque is unfortunately not gonna cut it..

Seriously, even though I would like the habs to get such a deal done, I just don't see them trading Markov at all... I hope I'm wrong even though I love the guy, cause I really think he could actually be the key in getting that young size and skill up front we've been lacking. That being said, we won't get a proven player for him and any trade of that type will be such a risky proposition that I believe MB will keep and sign him, especially since the habs will probably make the playoffs and are in a weak conference.. Again, I agree that trading him for assets might be the best move, but unless we start falling drastically until march 5th I just don't see it unfortunately.

 

[PricePkPatch*]

He's playing 11 minutes a game and has 2 points the last 6 weeks...not like he would be trading a top 6 forward...talk about overdramatizing.

I know it will surprise you to learn that, but NHL GMs don't have as much lack of long-term memory as you do.

 

[SpeedyPotato]

So you add Gionta to the package and get a 2nd back. I'm sure for this year Gionta brings more to the table, he can add at least as much offense plus, can help them on PK and defensively, guy that's won the cup etc. Even if you have to retain 25-50% of both cap hits to make it work or take Greene or Mitchell as a dump.

Now this might interest them, I think Gionta has more value for a team like the Kings than for us.. but again, this would be kissing goodbye to the season and I don't think it would sit well with a lot of people.

 

[PricePkPatch*]

So you add Gionta to the package and get a 2nd back. I'm sure for this year Gionta brings more to the table, he can add at least as much offense plus, can help them on PK and defensively, guy that's won the cup etc. Even if you have to retain 25-50% of both cap hits to make it work or take Greene or Mitchell as a dump.

Agreed with SpeedyPotato, that this is actually a deal worth considering for the Kings.

 

[bsl]

I don't want MB to trade Markov. That would basically mean that we give up on the playoffs.

Aaaand: That's why Habs haven't won a cup in 20years. You win the prize. Were you being sarcastic?

And, UH. Markov is a UFA, unless part of the deal is conditional on him signing with the team he is traded to , we can sign him back this summer.

This is Bergy's moment: Sign Markov, or trade him. There is no other option.

Habs paid ****loads to keep Markov while he was hurt. I will be pissed if he walks this summer, for nothing. Everyone here should be very pissed indeed if that happens. Sign him now, or trade him at deadline. End of.

Edit: Agree with Markov on signing, then wait until the 11th hour, when a key PP D man on a contender gets hurt, and they offer the moon for him.

 

[SpeedyPotato]

Pearson and Vey are more plausible as potential returns.. I know Kaberle never was as good as Markov, especially when the Leafs traded him to Boston, but at his full value, he fetched a late 1st, conditional 2nd and a prospect many had already labeled as a bust in Colborne.. I'm not sure MB wouldn't be crucified here if he were to trade Markov for that kind of return..

 

[PricePkPatch*]

However, just so we are clear: trading Markov AND Gionta is basically announcing loud and clear that you gave up for this year

 

[Domenic]

The "mentoring" is the difference between winning franchises and ones like Edmonton or Columbus that can't develop young players.

It's also not just about mentoring, it's about breaking in guys gradually. Unfortunately when Subban broke in, Markov was injured and he was thrust in a bigger role than he was ready for his first couple years and had some ups and downs. Subban is tough mentally and handled it and came out ok, but that's not always the case.

Throwing Beaulieu into a #2-3 role this year and next is stupid and recipe to blow up. Let the kid develop at 17-18 minutes.

This. Subban has also stated that Markov is a big influence for him.

 

[SpeedyPotato]

However, just so we are clear: trading Markov AND Gionta is basically announcing loud and clear that you gave up for this year

Exactly.. don't think that's happening.

 

[RealityBytes]

So what's the latest on this rumor ... fact or fiction? Nothing on it outside of HFBoards?

 

[bsl]

You are vindicated.

No. He has now played over 100 games healthy, and has very good value to a contender who wants to win this year. This is the moment, not three years ago.

LG was premature on that. He will never have higher value to a desperate contender, while damaging Habs less with his departure. That is key.

Anyway, it's moot. Markov is re signed, or traded. If he walks for nothing this summer, after Habs paid him on IR for 2 seasons, and then recovers, Montreal fans will have Bergy's head, and deservedly so.

 

[hototogisu]

So what's the latest on this rumor ... fact or fiction? Nothing on it outside of HFBoards?

My thoughts as well. Markov proposals can be discussed in the proposal thread (with the Kings or not) but I don't see any reason to keep this open. I think everyone's got their two cents in by now anyway.