Player Discussion Kurtis Gabriel

[Circulartheory]

Great, see if you can't sign him. But guys like him tend to become free agents that you can find easily.

Not according to the news article that had him in high demand during the 2013 season. Sounded like he was going to get selected by another team in the midrounds, if not by the Wild.

Great, you projected him as a 4th rounder. I projected him in the top 60. The fact is, we need offensive players, guys with speed and a great shot. We don't have a lot of guys like that. Who knows, he could bulk up easily.

You projected him in the top 60 based on what? The fact is, we did need offensive players but I debate whether that means drafted high risk players that struggled outside of 2-on-1 rushes. The risk seems a bit too much in terms of the reward.

This argument will revert to the ol' safe vs risk pick debate but I will say Bjorkstrand fell to the latter of the 3rd round for very good reason. Its not like NHL teams forget he was still available.

Our leading scorer in the AHL? Was a defenseman that we just traded. We don't have much depth here.

Like I said, I look at depth in terms of the overall Wild picture, not just who is in the AHL and juniors. I also consider young players in the NHL and I urge others to do the same. Future is our future, the only time that changes is when the benefits of being a "future" expires, and those benefits is mainly the luxury of cheap, easily negotiable ELCs.

Meaning, that includes Granlund, Brodin, Coyle, Zucker, Niederreiter, Kuemper, Dumba etc.

While I agree we may need more goal-scoring ability, I still think our depth is still quite strong. Drafting Gabriel in favor of another high risk prospect certainly has not destroyed the columns holding up our prospect pool.

 

[thestonedkoala]

sounds as though GMs were asking for him in trades today. couldn't have been all that scrubby.

Or the prices on prospects were low. I mean we saw a lot of trades and prospects weren't going for a lot. I don't think GMCF is just going to toss in a prospect given what he gave up last year.

 

[rynryn]

i think it's fair to say he's worth more than a 3rd round pick at this point.

 

[BagHead]

Intangibles.

I had some of those for breakfast this morning. I'm pretty hungry, still.

Honestly, I hope this kid works out, because he sounds like a good kid, but I feel like we got a medium weight fighter out of him, who may be able to skate well enough to hold down a 12-13th forward role someday, and play decent defense without any offense. Think Clayton Stoner in forward form. I will reiterate, just a feeling. I haven't seen much of him at all, yet.

 

[Nino Noderreiter]

i've never watched him play, but the thing is a large majority of you keep saying he's a 12/13th forward who can fight at best. Yet, why are GM's trying to acquire him? Why do we have posters/people going out of their way to say how special this kid is. I'm not saying I'm hoping for a ton but I think the kid could surprise some people

 

[rynryn]

well baby steps into acceptance since most of these people vilified the pick when it happened. go back and read the comments. no one likes to be wrong .

 

[Generic User]

well baby steps into acceptance since most of these people vilified the pick when it happened. go back and read the comments. no one likes to be wrong .

Indeed. We all love to be the guy/gal that "called it" but sometimes it's best to not say anything and reserve judgment 'til we know what the hell we're talking about

 

[MuckOG]

Indeed. We all love to be the guy/gal that "called it" but sometimes it's best to not say anything and reserve judgment 'til we know what the hell we're talking about

Which makes all the draft day *****ing and whining all the more hilarious. Most fans (me included) know very little about these prospects outside of youtube highlights and CSS rankings. The NHL draft is a crapshoot which even the "experts" manage to get wrong. (The only player I can claim to have truly known quite a bit about was Fasching, but that's personal...In fact, I was wondering if those personal biases were the reason why I was pulling my hair out as he fell to the 4th round. Turns out I was probably right in the end.)

I've seen the statistics that show that only 25% of players picked in the 2nd round play in at least 200 NHL games. 3rd round and beyond, only 12% of players. So, after the 1st round, the chances are great that these players will never make it.

Depending on organizational needs, sometimes it's smart to look for the "safest" pick, sometimes the opposite is true.

 

[State of Hockey]

i've never watched him play, but the thing is a large majority of you keep saying he's a 12/13th forward who can fight at best. Yet, why are GM's trying to acquire him? Why do we have posters/people going out of their way to say how special this kid is. I'm not saying I'm hoping for a ton but I think the kid could surprise some people

Pretty simple. There's a lot of bad GMs out there. Some players get drafted simply because of a name (e.g. Jared Staal). They get hung up on things besides talent. Then when the leagues get tougher, the prospect bombs out.

For example, I can't help but laugh when I hear a 4th-line/3rd-pairing physical forward or defensemen being a great one because he's "tough to play against". Oh really. Is Mike Rupp hard to play against? Or Clayton Stoner? Was Zenon Konopka? No, those guys were easy to play against. Koivu, Suter, those guys are tough to play against. You win only on the goals section of the scoreboard.

 

[Kari Takko]

From the sounds of it, if Gabriel makes it to the NHL, he'll be a fan favorite.

It seems GMCF is looking for guys to fill out the bottom 6 roles in the mid to later rounds. When you can fill those spots with ELC young guys, you can spend more on the skilled guys. I'm happy to see so much passion on the boards, because that means there's no apathy.

TSK, you seem very concerned that we don't have enough skill in the system. While we don't have a lot in Iowa, we do have some in college/jr in Dumba, Lucia and Olofsson, and we have a ton in Minnesota. I think you're getting a little bent out of shape over nothing.

 

[Puhis]

Pretty simple. There's a lot of bad GMs out there. Some players get drafted simply because of a name (e.g. Jared Staal). They get hung up on things besides talent. Then when the leagues get tougher, the prospect bombs out.

For example, I can't help but laugh when I hear a 4th-line/3rd-pairing physical forward or defensemen being a great one because he's "tough to play against". Oh really. Is Mike Rupp hard to play against? Or Clayton Stoner? Was Zenon Konopka? No, those guys were easy to play against. Koivu, Suter, those guys are tough to play against. You win only on the goals section of the scoreboard.

I'm quite sure guys like Torrey Mitchell and Nate Prosser are an absolute ***** to play against. Generally, fast, aggressive and gritty players can make your life very difficult. That's why they're called checkers (or grinders).

 

[thestonedkoala]

TSK, you seem very concerned that we don't have enough skill in the system. While we don't have a lot in Iowa, we do have some in college/jr in Dumba, Lucia and Olofsson, and we have a ton in Minnesota. I think you're getting a little bent out of shape over nothing.

We have no depth though, which is strange to see Zucker in all these proposals. Neither Bulmer or Bus has really lit it to up in the AHL. Phillips has been mediocre. We have no pure offensive player that we can plug in if someone goes down. We keep complaining that our team plays too grindy and yet that's who we bring in. We're also using free agency to patch holes and for the majority, it might work for a year or two before it starts going sideways.

 

[MuckOG]

We have no depth though, which is strange to see Zucker in all these proposals. Neither Bulmer or Bus has really lit it to up in the AHL. Phillips has been mediocre. We have no pure offensive player that we can plug in if someone goes down. We keep complaining that our team plays too grindy and yet that's who we bring in. We're also using free agency to patch holes and for the majority, it might work for a year or two before it starts going sideways.

Nothing wrong with that. Not all players need to be home grown developed talent.

And, yes we do have a pure offensive player that we can plug in if someone goes down...Jason Zucker. Also, with the acquisition of Moulson, the NHL squad has enough depth to compensate if one player is on the shelf. Heck, even before Moulson we did...as evidenced by winning games without Koivu and Parise for a long stretch. When Koivu went down in years past, we were screwed.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Nothing wrong with that. Not all players need to be home grown developed talent.

But building a team around guys in their 30s isn't a smart way either.

And, yes we do have a pure offensive player that we can plug in if someone goes down...Jason Zucker. Also, with the acquisition of Moulson, the NHL squad has enough depth to compensate if one player is on the shelf. Heck, even before Moulson we did...as evidenced by winning games without Koivu and Parise for a long stretch. When Koivu went down in years past, we were screwed.

We're talking beyond this year. I don't see a lot going in terms of depth especially at center. If we get rid of Brod and then Granny and Koivu get injured, Phillips?

 

[MuckOG]

But building a team around guys in their 30s isn't a smart way either.

There have been plenty of Stanley Cup championship teams have had 30+ year old players at their core.

We're talking beyond this year. I don't see a lot going in terms of depth especially at center. If we get rid of Brod and then Granny and Koivu get injured, Phillips?

Coyle, Phillips, Graovac, Gilmour, future drafts, future trades, future free agent acquisitions, etc.

Not all depth issues need to be resolved from the minor leagues.

 

[Kari Takko]

But building a team around guys in their 30s isn't a smart way either.



We're talking beyond this year. I don't see a lot going in terms of depth especially at center. If we get rid of Brod and then Granny and Koivu get injured, Phillips?

Read a post wrong... response doesn't make sense.

 

[PariseSuterKoivu]

I think what draws people to Gabriel is that he plays a smart aggressive style, he's a super high character guy, a leader and all out effort guy on every shift. His skating reportedly is good for a big guy and he is very aware on the ice. Hope he can develop and offensive skill or 2. He should be a quality gritty 4th liner who will make the oppostion work on every shift.

 

[Jarick]

i've never watched him play, but the thing is a large majority of you keep saying he's a 12/13th forward who can fight at best. Yet, why are GM's trying to acquire him? Why do we have posters/people going out of their way to say how special this kid is. I'm not saying I'm hoping for a ton but I think the kid could surprise some people

Same reason GM's acquire other fighters? McCormick was traded and he offers nothing to a team outside of fighting.

There's maybe ONE person who's actually watched him play comment about him in this thread. If you search his name in the Prospect forum, you literally find no mention of his play at all and practically nothing beyond him potentially being drafted too high.

What we do have in this thread is two things:

1. People looking at stats and assuming that he's going to be a fourth line fighter type

2. People looking at his draft status and assuming that he's going to be a valuable role player

 

[MuckOG]

Same reason GM's acquire other fighters? McCormick was traded and he offers nothing to a team outside of fighting.

There's maybe ONE person who's actually watched him play comment about him in this thread. If you search his name in the Prospect forum, you literally find no mention of his play at all and practically nothing beyond him potentially being drafted too high.

What we do have in this thread is two things:

1. People looking at stats and assuming that he's going to be a fourth line fighter type

2. People looking at his draft status and assuming that he's going to be a valuable role player

Something else we know is that the Wild were very high on his based on his play at training camp last fall and thought long and hard before sending him back to Owen Sound....May not mean all that much, but it's something worth noting.

 

[rynryn]

yeah i'm just going by what i'm told. 3rd round picks don't make it to the NHL more often than not so not sure how looking at his draft position would make anyone assume he'd be a valuable role player. my thought at the point of the draft was "it's not the end of the world if he doesn't work out." when there were a lot of people flipping out about what a waste of a pick it was. 3rd round picks are mostly "wastes."

 

[MuckOG]

A study was done that said that only 12% of players drafted after the 2nd round played more than 200 career NHL games.

 

[Parker1]

6 points in his last 4 games (3 & 3). Too many "clean" hits to count. Covers a lot of ice and makes himself a general nuisance for the opposition. Primarily gets a lot of duty against the opposition's "top line" in a shut-down role so the points can be hard to come by. Looks like a man amongst boys a lot of nights - technically I guess he is. Seems to have even more jump in his game since signing the ELC. Again, Gabe will give you everything that he's got on many levels and is never satisfied with mediocrity. He will push himself harder than any Coach could ever hope to and then will push a little more. This young man is true character, through and through. I look forward to watching him develop at the next level.

 

[Scoutguy77]

6 points in his last 4 games (3 & 3). Too many "clean" hits to count. Covers a lot of ice and makes himself a general nuisance for the opposition. Primarily gets a lot of duty against the opposition's "top line" in a shut-down role so the points can be hard to come by. Looks like a man amongst boys a lot of nights - technically I guess he is. Seems to have even more jump in his game since signing the ELC. Again, Gabe will give you everything that he's got on many levels and is never satisfied with mediocrity. He will push himself harder than any Coach could ever hope to and then will push a little more. This young man is true character, through and through. I look forward to watching him develop at the next level.

WE get it, you like him.
Im going to reserve judgement until I see him as a pro. Saw him at Traverse City.

 

[Al Lagoon]

From the sounds of it, if Gabriel makes it to the NHL, he'll be a fan favorite.

It seems GMCF is looking for guys to fill out the bottom 6 roles in the mid to later rounds. When you can fill those spots with ELC young guys, you can spend more on the skilled guys. I'm happy to see so much passion on the boards, because that means there's no apathy.

TSK, you seem very concerned that we don't have enough skill in the system. While we don't have a lot in Iowa, we do have some in college/jr in Dumba, Lucia and Olofsson, and we have a ton in Minnesota. I think you're getting a little bent out of shape over nothing.

A thousand times this. No more wasting money on Mitchell, Nystrom & Co.

 

[Puhis]

6 points in his last 4 games (3 & 3). Too many "clean" hits to count. Covers a lot of ice and makes himself a general nuisance for the opposition. Primarily gets a lot of duty against the opposition's "top line" in a shut-down role so the points can be hard to come by. Looks like a man amongst boys a lot of nights - technically I guess he is. Seems to have even more jump in his game since signing the ELC. Again, Gabe will give you everything that he's got on many levels and is never satisfied with mediocrity. He will push himself harder than any Coach could ever hope to and then will push a little more. This young man is true character, through and through. I look forward to watching him develop at the next level.

Sounds good. I heard he is also very, very strong, which will come handy along the boards and establishing the cycle. Your updates are much appreciated, looking forward to seeing him play among the pros.