Kucherov (now) or Stamkos (09-12)?

[Zanon]

Who would you rather have on your team?

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[VoluntaryDom]

from 09-12 Stamkos was 4th in the NHL with 2.19 p1/60 and 1st with 132 p1. from 17-19 Kucherov is 4th in the NHL with 2.27 p1/60 and 3rd with 69 p1. However, Kuch has played a lot with 5th in p1/60 Brayden Point and 23rd in p1/60 Steven Stamkos, both of whom do not see insane drop offs away from him. Stamkos only really had 17th in p1/60 Marty St. Louis, in a stretch between his Art Rosses. Kucherov is a better play driver but not by enough to counter the linemate difference imo. Close but clear, Stamkos.


note: i used 900 minute minimum for kucherov and 1800 minute minimum for stamkos, assuming 600 minutes per season is a fair minimum
also note: holy f*** Sidney Crosby's p1/60 was over 3 in that 3 season span

 

[authentic]

The guy who is the better overall offensive player, and probably defensively too compared to 09-12 Stamkos.

 

[ESH]

from 09-12 Stamkos was 4th in the NHL with 2.19 p1/60 and 1st with 132 p1. from 17-19 Kucherov is 4th in the NHL with 2.27 p1/60 and 3rd with 69 p1. However, Kuch has played a lot with 5th in p1/60 Brayden Point and 23rd in p1/60 Steven Stamkos, both of whom do not see insane drop offs away from him. Stamkos only really had 17th in p1/60 Marty St. Louis, in a stretch between his Art Rosses. Kucherov is a better play driver but not by enough to counter the linemate difference imo. Close but clear, Stamkos.


note: i used 900 minute minimum for kucherov and 1800 minute minimum for stamkos, assuming 600 minutes per season is a fair minimum
also note: holy **** Sidney Crosby's p1/60 was over 3 in that 3 season span

Wait, so your argument for picking Stamkos here is that Point is a better player than 2x Art Ross winner Martin St. Louis?

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Wait, so your argument for picking Stamkos here is that Point is a better player than 2x Art Ross winner Martin St. Louis?

better than that stretch of MSL's career sure. peak MSL no.

 

[780il]

Stamkos

Why? He's a really good friend of McDavid and would probably hammer in 70 goals on the left side of the pp off Mcjesus backdoor feeds. (We badly need a good RH one timer on the left wall of the pp)

 

[SillyRabbit]

Peak Stamkos gets underrated because he peaked quite early in his career.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Last season was a “disappointing” playoff run by Kucherov’s standards, yet it was still notably better than any playoff run of Stamkos’ career. Kucherov.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Last season was a “disappointing” playoff run by Kucherov’s standards, yet it was still notably better than any playoff run of Stamkos’ career. Kucherov.

thats because we rarely made the playoffs during stamkos' peak.

 

[Kuz]

09-12 was so low scoring compared to the scoring environment now. We have not seen close to the scoring there is in the league since 05/06. Makes you wonder what Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin could have gotten in there prime this year.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

thats because we rarely made the playoffs during stamkos' peak.

Stamkos played 18 playoff games in the heart of his peak in 2010-2011 and scored 6 goals and 7 assists. His other playoff runs were also quite disappointing and his style of play, even during his peak, has always been the one-dimensional, predictable style that works better in the regular season than the playoffs.

Kucherov, meanwhile, had two separate long playoff runs before his peak started, and he crushed it in both of them.

 

[Addison Rae]

from 09-12 Stamkos was 4th in the NHL with 2.19 p1/60 and 1st with 132 p1. from 17-19 Kucherov is 4th in the NHL with 2.27 p1/60 and 3rd with 69 p1. However, Kuch has played a lot with 5th in p1/60 Brayden Point and 23rd in p1/60 Steven Stamkos, both of whom do not see insane drop offs away from him. Stamkos only really had 17th in p1/60 Marty St. Louis, in a stretch between his Art Rosses. Kucherov is a better play driver but not by enough to counter the linemate difference imo. Close but clear, Stamkos.


note: i used 900 minute minimum for kucherov and 1800 minute minimum for stamkos, assuming 600 minutes per season is a fair minimum
also note: holy **** Sidney Crosby's p1/60 was over 3 in that 3 season span

Do you even understand the stats you use?

 

[Khomutov]

Voted Kucherov but Stamkos was great, especially in 2011-12.

 

[Sky04]

Voted Kuch cause Dom said Stamkos.

 

[Sky04]

better than that stretch of MSL's career sure. peak MSL no.

66 points Point better than 2x 90+ point scorer MSL in that span. What was that comment about the obvious slapping you in the face?

 

[bert]

Wait, so your argument for picking Stamkos here is that Point is a better player than 2x Art Ross winner Martin St. Louis?

He thinks point is steve yzerman so the story checks out.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Do you even understand the stats you use?

ye

i dont understand WAR so i dont use it

 

[nickdawg95]

the guy with 60 goals

 

[bobholly39]

from 09-12 Stamkos was 4th in the NHL with 2.19 p1/60 and 1st with 132 p1. from 17-19 Kucherov is 4th in the NHL with 2.27 p1/60 and 3rd with 69 p1. However, Kuch has played a lot with 5th in p1/60 Brayden Point and 23rd in p1/60 Steven Stamkos, both of whom do not see insane drop offs away from him. Stamkos only really had 17th in p1/60 Marty St. Louis, in a stretch between his Art Rosses. Kucherov is a better play driver but not by enough to counter the linemate difference imo. Close but clear, Stamkos.


note: i used 900 minute minimum for kucherov and 1800 minute minimum for stamkos, assuming 600 minutes per season is a fair minimum
also note: holy **** Sidney Crosby's p1/60 was over 3 in that 3 season span

You do realize p/60 have exactly 0 value in comparing past performances right?

It's one thing for you to look at Point and say "hey his p/60 is higher than players with more ice-time - so i'll pick him because i'm confident he can earn more ice-time in future and provide more points". (hardly an exact science - 1 because there's no guarantee he maintains his p/60 with more ice time, 2 there's no guarantee he can earn more ice-time - but at least there's some logic there).

Looking at past performances though Points is much more important than p/60.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

You do realize p/60 have exactly 0 value in comparing past performances right?

It's one thing for you to look at Point and say "hey his p/60 is higher than players with more ice-time - so i'll pick him because i'm confident he can earn more ice-time in future and provide more points". (hardly an exact science - 1 because there's no guarantee he maintains his p/60 with more ice time, 2 there's no guarantee he can earn more ice-time - but at least there's some logic there).

Looking at past performances though Points is much more important than p/60.

what makes past performances any different than current ones? you still have to be efficient in your ice time.

also, Kucherov is 3rd in total p1 since the start of last year with 69 as i mentioned. Point is t-4th with 66, stamkos is t-22nd with 52. Stamkos in his peak 3 seasons had 132 p1 in 3 seasons which would be 66 in the 1.5 seasons kuch has played in the time span i used. his best linemate (marty st louis) had 113 p1 which was t-5th. that would be about 56 in the season and a half span. stamkos was 19 p1 ahead of his best linemate and would be about 10 ahead if adjusted to a season and a half. kucherov is only 3 p1 ahead of brayden point in that span.

 

[Ainec]

peak Stamkos was good but Kucherov has more arsenal in his offensive toolbox while also being better all around

 

[daver]

As always, need an in-depth P1/60 analysis before deciding.

 

[bobholly39]

what makes past performances any different than current ones? you still have to be efficient in your ice time.

also, Kucherov is 3rd in total p1 since the start of last year with 69 as i mentioned. Point is t-4th with 66, stamkos is t-22nd with 52. Stamkos in his peak 3 seasons had 132 p1 in 3 seasons which would be 66 in the 1.5 seasons kuch has played in the time span i used. his best linemate (marty st louis) had 113 p1 which was t-5th. that would be about 56 in the season and a half span. stamkos was 19 p1 ahead of his best linemate and would be about 10 ahead if adjusted to a season and a half. kucherov is only 3 p1 ahead of brayden point in that span.

When you compare 2 player's past seasons - look at who was more valuable and produced more.

100 points is more valuable than 90 points in a vacuum - even if the 90 points guy had a better p/60. It's too bad for him for not earning more ice-time, and good on the first guy for earning more ice time and scoring more points. ie - p/60 is useless.

Now if you want to use p/60 as a metric to try and predict future predictions - sure that has some worth (though again - probably not as much as you would think).

 

[daver]

Both players are/did put their names among the best of the league for a spell. Kucherov is better in the playoffs so far.

 

[AlphaCatalyst]

The answer is Kucherov because the guy who is always wrong said it was clearly Stamkos.