Player Discussion: Kristian Vesalainen

[Mortimer Snerd]

Might be best to trade him while he still has value

What makes you think he has value now?

A couple of years ago, after his strong season in Liiga, when we were arguing who was better, him or Tolvanen is probably when his value peaked. Since then, neither have impressed much.

He has only just turned 21. He still has time but I think next season will be very important to him. He needs to step up.

 

[ps241]

What makes you think he has value now?

A couple of years ago, after his strong season in Liiga, when we were arguing who was better, him or Tolvanen is probably when his value peaked. Since then, neither have impressed much.

He has only just turned 21. He still has time but I think next season will be very important to him. He needs to step up.

Right now he looks 40-60 at best to succeed from my vantage. That is one of the challenges of late 1st early 2nd picks the odds really fall off. I think we have been spoiled a bit with the Jets success in the 1st over the first 4 to 5 seasons.

 

[voyageur]

I'm hoping for a good season for him. He screwed up his own progression by going back to Finland, but he also improved his financial status.

The Jets don't rush prospects, and it's usually in their 2nd year of development that we have seen players push through: Lowry got a whole year on the Moose in, Roslovic, Appleton all come to mind. Harkins took until the 3rd year to make his progression. Well Ves is at 1 and 1/4 right now.

I'm hoping he gets to play alongside Gus for most of his time on the Moose this year. Having Heinola there too, could help increase his enjoyment of the experience, and his production. Looking for that Heinola to Ves one-timer on the PP.

Last year he got caught behind the Chibisov-Harkins-Griffith line that took off, and playing with the Shaws and Suess's or Spacek, who look disinterested, didn't bring out his A-game, but he didn't look too engaged himself at times. I'd expect him to be on the top line to start, with the Moose, and knowing that he has to play his best to get the call up, as he physically and mentally matures, this could be the year he makes his mark. If he can bring that physical edge, I think that's something the Jets would want in their lineup.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I'm hoping for a good season for him. He screwed up his own progression by going back to Finland, but he also improved his financial status.

The Jets don't rush prospects, and it's usually in their 2nd year of development that we have seen players push through: Lowry got a whole year on the Moose in, Roslovic, Appleton all come to mind. Harkins took until the 3rd year to make his progression. Well Ves is at 1 and 1/4 right now.

I'm hoping he gets to play alongside Gus for most of his time on the Moose this year. Having Heinola there too, could help increase his enjoyment of the experience, and his production. Looking for that Heinola to Ves one-timer on the PP.

Last year he got caught behind the Chibisov-Harkins-Griffith line that took off, and playing with the Shaws and Suess's or Spacek, who look disinterested, didn't bring out his A-game, but he didn't look too engaged himself at times. I'd expect him to be on the top line to start, with the Moose, and knowing that he has to play his best to get the call up, as he physically and mentally matures, this could be the year he makes his mark. If he can bring that physical edge, I think that's something the Jets would want in their lineup.

Hope the few extra grand was worth it to him if it stops him from being an nhler.

 

[voyageur]

Hope the few extra grand was worth it to him if it stops him from being an nhler.

That's easy to say, but a few extra grand goes a long way. He doesn't have the leverage like a college kid to get 30 games in the NHL before going down to the Moose, or not going down at all, like Copp, as a bonus for leaving college.
Remember the Jets don't give signing bonuses. So you have to earn what you get. I mean you still get paid good, relatively speaking, compared to a lower middle class schmuck like me, for being on the Moose, but if you think there is a better opportunity to earn money, you take it. Heinola did, and no one seems to be on him.

 

[puck stoppa]

Next season camp is a big one for him. Kid needs to put it into gear if he wants to make the team. There are openings but he's far from a lock. Could end up starting the year off on the Moose. Something just doesn't seem right with his compete level when I watch him. Hoping he wakes up and delivers.

Vincent said they had him working on his deficiencies and that it was taking time for him to adjust. He may benefit another year rounding out his game before he’s a regular. I just hope they don’t kill his confidence on offense. I see him being a recall during the year and we’ll see if he’s ready if not keep working hard and year after should be in the lineup.

 

[Whileee]

As I said in prospect thread:
Give up on him? No way. He may not end up being a top six player but he will be a valuable NHLer on an ELC. I see him taking a similar path to the NHL as Armia. Put him with Copp and Lowry on a recall next year and let him play a simple game where he shines, on the wall. He still projects as an important bottom six player for us going forward.

In their D+3 seasons in the AHL:

Armia, 7g, 27 points in 54 games (0.50 points/game)
Vesalainen, 12g, 30 points in 60 games (0.50 points/game)

 

[Whileee]

Vincent said they had him working on his deficiencies and that it was taking time for him to adjust. He may benefit another year rounding out his game before he’s a regular. I just hope they don’t kill his confidence on offense. I see him being a recall during the year and we’ll see if he’s ready if not keep working hard and year after should be in the lineup.

I could see him spending some time with the Moose in the upcoming season (if there is a season), and breaking into the Jets line-up with an injury, or perhaps if the Jets trade Perreault at the deadline as a playoff rental (if the Jets aren't in a solid playoff position).

 

[Adam da bomb]

That's easy to say, but a few extra grand goes a long way. He doesn't have the leverage like a college kid to get 30 games in the NHL before going down to the Moose, or not going down at all, like Copp, as a bonus for leaving college.
Remember the Jets don't give signing bonuses. So you have to earn what you get. I mean you still get paid good, relatively speaking, compared to a lower middle class schmuck like me, for being on the Moose, but if you think there is a better opportunity to earn money, you take it. Heinola did, and no one seems to be on him.

Hey we all have to make our own decisions if his short term decision bites him that’s on him. If it works that’s partly on him too.

 

[surixon]

Spending half a season in the KHL vs AHL whe hes 19 is likely not going to have a material impact on his devolment.

It may have actually helped in the sense that he seemed more receptive to modifying his game this year. Only time will tell.

 

[ps241]

Vincent said they had him working on his deficiencies and that it was taking time for him to adjust. He may benefit another year rounding out his game before he’s a regular. I just hope they don’t kill his confidence on offense. I see him being a recall during the year and we’ll see if he’s ready if not keep working hard and year after should be in the lineup.

In their D+3 seasons in the AHL:

Armia, 7g, 27 points in 54 games (0.50 points/game)
Vesalainen, 12g, 30 points in 60 games (0.50 points/game)

I could see him spending some time with the Moose in the upcoming season (if there is a season), and breaking into the Jets line-up with an injury, or perhaps if the Jets trade Perreault at the deadline as a playoff rental (if the Jets aren't in a solid playoff position).

There is the draft part.......now we are watching the development part.

Hope the kid has the will and character to hang in and do the spade work and transition his game?

Armia was a highly skilled winger who adjusted his game and has become a very effective middle six asset. Both bigger framed prospects so can KVes humble himself to take a slightly lesser role than he has played most of his life like Joel did?

 

[Teemusalami204]

Was super exited for him but the way the team is shaped now we don’t need another oversized soft player.

Unless he learns how to play like Lowry or Copp at the least I don’t really think he will add much to this team

 

[surixon]

Was super exited for him but the way the team is shaped now we don’t need another oversized soft player.

Unless he learns how to play like Lowry or Copp at the least I don’t really think he will add much to this team

He doesn't play soft. The org has been turning him into a North/South power winger. Exactly what the team needs in its top 9.

 

[surixon]

There is the draft part.......now we are watching the development part.

Hope the kid has the will and character to hang in and do the spade work and transition his game?

Armia was a highly skilled winger who adjusted his game and has become a very effective middle six asset. Both bigger framed prospects so can KVes humble himself to take a slightly lesser role than he has played most of his life like Joel did?

I dont know if he will or won't have to settle for a lesser role. The org seems to still be developing him as a power offensuve winger. He starts to excel at that and Maurice will find a place for him in an offensive role.

 

[Whileee]

There is the draft part.......now we are watching the development part.

Hope the kid has the will and character to hang in and do the spade work and transition his game?

Armia was a highly skilled winger who adjusted his game and has become a very effective middle six asset. Both bigger framed prospects so can KVes humble himself to take a slightly lesser role than he has played most of his life like Joel did?

I think there were the same comments about Armia then, as there are about Vesalainen now. Buffalo gave up on Armia about a year before he really made it in the NHL. Watching Gurianov with Dallas - he reminds me a lot of Vesalainen, and he has a similar skillset and trajectory.

 

[JetsUK]

I think there were the same comments about Armia then, as there are about Vesalainen now. Buffalo gave up on Armia about a year before he really made it in the NHL. Watching Gurianov with Dallas - he reminds me a lot of Vesalainen, and he has a similar skillset and trajectory.

Yeah, I've said this before. He's going to take a little longer, but having seen most of his games with the Moose, he still has a ton of upside and everything Vincent has said lately suggests he';s putting in the time to get better. I think he'll improve quickly and hopefully will be rewarded with some NHL games, especially if we're in retooling mode.

 

[Teemusalami204]

He doesn't play soft. The org has been turning him into a North/South power winger. Exactly what the team needs in its top 9.

Wicked. I hope he turns out to be what we need.

 

[ps241]

I think there were the same comments about Armia then, as there are about Vesalainen now. Buffalo gave up on Armia about a year before he really made it in the NHL. Watching Gurianov with Dallas - he reminds me a lot of Vesalainen, and he has a similar skillset and trajectory.

Yea good examples of two guys who took a while to find their games at the NHL level. I am guilty as charged as far as not watching K Ves much with the Moose. I was rink side watching him in some drills last winter at the IcePlex and he was a bit pissed at himself or Keane for dropping the ball on a attack drill (Keane was feeding passes to the winger breaking in). That was the ultimate snap shot observation but at that moment he didn't lack passion.

Like any Jets prospect I am cheering for the kid.

 

[GigaChad]

Can anyone tell, who has seen him play, what is his playing style?
Corner play, shot, passing, speed, assertiveness, IQ, etc?

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

What's latest on Pooljarvi? Always saw some similarities in the slow curve with these big Finn's.

 

[surixon]

Can anyone tell, who has seen him play, what is his playing style?
Corner play, shot, passing, speed, assertiveness, IQ, etc?

They have been getting him to play a more direct game. He has been learning to use his body to shield the puck while he skates by people.

As the season went on he was attacking defenders and trying to barge his way around them on a path to the net. He is a good skater and can can separation if he can beat his opponent. He also has good agility that he uses in the corners to buy himself time with the puck.

He has a very heavy shot with a quick release and often likes to find open area in the high slot to use it. I would say his passing skills are average to slightly above average. He can make decent plays but is more of a shooter that goes to the slot or front of the net. I wouldnt seay he has elite hockey sense but it most certainly isn't something that will hold him back.

I think he is now playing the type of game he needs to play to have success at the NHL level. He just needs to get a bit stronger and faster to really be able to use those physical attributes that he has to create openings for himself and his teammates. If he's able to do that I thinknthe offense will really start to come as he will be pretty hard to contain at his size.

 

[JetsUK]

They have been getting him to play a more direct game. He has been learning to use his body to shield the puck while he skates by people.

As the season went on he was attacking defenders and trying to barge his way around them on a path to the net. He is a good skater and can can separation if he can beat his opponent. He also has good agility that he uses in the corners to buy himself time with the puck.

He has a very heavy shot with a quick release and often likes to find open area in the high slot to use it. I would say his passing skills are average to slightly above average. He can make decent plays but is more of a shooter that goes to the slot or front of the net. I wouldnt seay he has elite hockey sense but it most certainly isn't something that will hold him back.

I think he is now playing the type of game he needs to play to have success at the NHL level. He just needs to get a bit stronger and faster to really be able to use those physical attributes that he has to create openings for himself and his teammates. If he's able to do that I thinknthe offense will really start to come as he will be pretty hard to contain at his size.

Excellent summary.

I'd add only that he has deceptive quickness for a big man, both in term of acceleration and the ability to change pace and even direction straighline and pivoting -- this is noticeable in some of his moves off the boards and out of corners to shooting positions. KVes may already be better at this than, say, Wheeler and Laine, and this makes him a real threat on the PP, where he can make the quick pass or burst into the slot for a scoring opportunity.

I agree that he needs a bit more strength, but the main thing he needs now is confidence and playing time in all situations without fear of being benched or PB'd for weeks if he makes a mistake at the NHL level. Maybe this is the year he gets to develop on a line that offers him actual playing time with a chance to succeed. He isn't a prospect we can afford to lose or ignore at this point, IMO. If I'm Chevy I make sure that PoMo gets that message, and plays him over the Borques and Letestus.

 

[surixon]

Excellent summary.

I'd add only that he has deceptive quickness for a big man, both in term of acceleration and the ability to change pace and even direction straighline and pivoting -- this is noticeable in some of his moves off the boards and out of corners to shooting positions. KVes may already be better at this than, say, Wheeler and Laine, and this makes him a real threat on the PP, where he can make the quick pass or burst into the slot for a scoring opportunity.

I agree that he needs a bit more strength, but the main thing he needs now is confidence and playing time in all situations without fear of being benched or PB'd for weeks if he makes a mistake at the NHL level. Maybe this is the year he gets to develop on a line that offers him actual playing time with a chance to succeed. He isn't a prospect we can afford to lose or ignore at this point, IMO. If I'm Chevy I make sure that PoMo gets that message, and I play him over the Borques and Letestus.

I wouldnt be opposed to him starting in the AHL ala Conner and getting that confidence going so that he hits the ground running in an injury call up and doesn't look back.

 

[JetsUK]

I wouldnt be opposed to him starting in the AHL ala Conner and getting that confidence going so that he hits the ground running in an injury call up and doesn't look back.

Agree, and that's what I expect will happen. I think he'll be a great add when he gets the call, either as a quick, lethal shooter on the Lowry/Copp line or a transition threat on a 4th line that hopefully gets more than 4-6 mins a game.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Vesalainen does not look like a future top 6 NHL player at this stage. His is not great with the puck on his stick and he can't get his shot off enough at even strength. He doesn't process the game fast enough. Maybe that changes; it often does with developing players. I just don't see the package required for an NHL scorer.

He hasn't adapted to smaller rink with NA style coaching and plays and roughness, possibly. He needs 2 full years here, playing 70+ games NA pro level to adjust, aclimatize, familiarize, and adapt his quickness to applying his junior showing skills. He's not a slouch skater and has size, bulk to withstand the rough stuff. Maybe he is unsure of his skills to adapt to this play, to NHL? He showed a scoring shot ability from different angles in offensive zone, in junior highlights.
Maybe he is too slow for upgraded talent,level, speed of NHL?
A write-off? Not my calling or take (yet). 2 years to see.