Kris Letang's playoffs

[Big McLargehuge]

Funny how no one is calling out Kessel at all.

He had one goal the entire playoffs.


One

When you have the reputation of being a playoff warrior and are clearly playing very hurt, you get a little more leeway. Secondary scoring gets lumped together as a letdown in these playoffs, and Kessel is part of that, but he's not someone that Pens fans are going to throw under the bus.

I think a lot of the ease of making Letang the scapegoat is that he didn't play a role in the win last year.

 

[Anisimovs AK]

When you have the reputation of being a playoff warrior and are clearly playing very hurt, you get a little more leeway. Secondary scoring gets lumped together as a letdown in these playoffs, and Kessel is part of that, but he's not someone that Pens fans are going to throw under the bus.

I think a lot of the ease of making Letang the scapegoat is that he didn't play a role in the win last year.

Understandable, but my point is the disappearance of a 90 point player isnt a "secondary scoring" issue. Thats a star player being a passenger

 

[Old Gregg]

Funny how no one is calling out Kessel at all.

He had one goal the entire playoffs.


One

Well obviously Kessel has to be better but I mean look at the entire bottom 6. Hell, look at all the forwards outside of Crosby, Guentzal, Hornqvist and Malkin. Rust had 3 goals which were all against Philly. Hagelin had 2 goals which were both against Philly. Kessel, Sheahan and Brassard each had a goal against Philly. To win in the playoffs you need your depth guys to produce. Pittsburgh didn't get that this year. Their 1st line dragged them to game 6 of the 2nd round. I still wish Sullivan had left that 1st line together for the entire series but oh well. They were bound to lose at some point and the Caps played well. Give them credit.

 

[SouthGeorge]

I’m not defending Letang, I’m pointing out that people are getting so sucked into this narrative that they’re overlooking what actually caused that turnover and counter-rush.

What Crosby not being able to handle a blue to blue line pass? That happens but you don't expect losing the puck at their blue line and giving up a breakaway. That's just unacceptable. Letang has been making these mistakes his whole career.

In this clip you can see how they do a line change and where Letang was in the screenshot I sent you, his replacement would have already been on the ice. Also, he fails to clear the puck. Gets the puck and goes on a rush with 10 seconds left in a PK instead of dumping it up one. Turns the puck over and the Sharks go down and score with 1 second left on the PP and tie the game half way thru the 3rd.

1:46:50




His whole career is riddled with stupid mistakes like this.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Understandable, but my point is the disappearance of a 90 point player isnt a "secondary scoring" issue. Thats a star player being a passenger

I'm just not going to line-up to throw a guy under the bus who played a huge role in us winning back-to-back cups.

My patience will be lesser the next time he plays a (mostly) meaningless late regular season game while so blatantly obviously hurt to keep that damn iron man streak alive.

His whole career is riddled with stupid mistakes like this.

It's always been that way with Letang, you accept the bad because the good overwhelmingly outweighed the bad for so long. This season has been the first time the bad started to catch up to the good, and effectively caught up by the end of it all. That said, we're talking about the issues the Pens had with putting points on the board aside from the top line, and Letang had 11 points in 12 games, including his team's only goal in Game 6. The positives are still there, the negatives are just far, far more frequent than before.

 

[Anisimovs AK]

Well obviously Kessel has to be better but I mean look at the entire bottom 6. Hell, look at all the forwards outside of Crosby, Guentzal, Hornqvist and Malkin. Rust had 3 goals which were all against Philly. Hagelin had 2 goals which were both against Philly. Kessel, Sheahan and Brassard each had a goal against Philly. To win in the playoffs you need your depth guys to produce. Pittsburgh didn't get that this year. Their 1st line dragged them to game 6 of the 2nd round. I still wish Sullivan had left that 1st line together for the entire series but oh well. They were bound to lose at some point and the Caps played well. Give them credit.

One more time for the people in the back, Phil Kessel is not a depth player. He is the third highest paid player on the team and had a 92 point regular season

 

[Midnight Judges]

Letang directly lost the Pens the last 2 games. he needs to go

Not really. Letang scored the Pens' only goal in game 6.

Also, Letang and Dumoulin were tasked with taking on Kuznetsov and Ovechkin 2on2 repeatedly, with no help what so ever from Crosby or Crosby's line on any of the 3 game winning goals scored late in the third period or overtime by Ovechkin's line. It's not a good match-up regardless of who is back there. It was a scheme problem and Sullivan never sufficiently adjusted.

Don't get me wrong, Letang made some bad defensive plays, but their system is all about offense, and it's making him look even worse.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

One more time for the people in the back, Phil Kessel is not a depth player. He is the third highest paid player on the team and had a 92 point regular season

I think you're getting too caught up in the semantics of the definition. "Secondary scoring" is more code word for offense from the bottom six, and Phil is on the third line. Just as Geno isn't actually a second line center, we're well aware that Kessel isn't actually a third line winger.

 

[Anisimovs AK]

I think you're getting too caught up in the semantics of the definition. "Secondary scoring" is more code word for offense from the bottom six, and Phil is on the third line. Just as Geno isn't actually a second line center, we're well aware that Kessel isn't actually a third line winger.

I think its the other way around, actually. I use depth scoring to describe someone like Tom Wilson or Thomas Holmstrom's contributions, regardless of placement in the lineup.

 

[Old Gregg]

I think its the other way around, actually. I use depth scoring to describe someone like Tom Wilson or Thomas Holmstrom's contributions, regardless of placement in the lineup.

We all know Kessel was playing injured and his play dropped before the playoffs had even started. Of course it would have been nice for him to produce but it would have been nice for every forward not named Crosby, Guentzal, Hornqvist and Malkin to do something.

 

[Old Gregg]

Not really. Letang scored the Pens' only goal in game 6.

Also, Letang and Dumoulin were tasked with taking on Kuznetsov and Ovechkin 2on2 repeatedly, with no help what so ever from Crosby or Crosby's line on any of the 3 game winning goals scored late in the third period or overtime by Ovechkin's line. It's not a good match-up regardless of who is back there. It was a scheme problem and Sullivan never sufficiently adjusted.

Don't get me wrong, Letang made some bad defensive plays, but their system is all about offense, and it's making him look even worse.

This quote is hilarious....trying to blame Crosby for the 3 GWGs. The first one was Maatta turning over the puck and being tripped by Wilson, the second one was horrible defense by Letang on Vrana and the third was a great play by Kuznetsov to cause a TO in the neutral zone and turn it back up ice for a goal. Outside of not taking that pass (which he had to reach for) cleanly, Crosby had nothing to do with how horrible the defense played on the other goals

 

[SouthGeorge]

Not really. Letang scored the Pens' only goal in game 6.

Only goal in a game they were being trapped all game in the NZ because Letang handed them Game 5 which was basically Game 7? This is why he's stuck around so long. People looking at meaningless stats.

 

[Midnight Judges]

This quote is hilarious....trying to blame Crosby for the 3 GWGs. The first one was Maatta turning over the puck and being tripped by Wilson, the second one was horrible defense by Letang on Vrana and the third was a great play by Kuznetsov to cause a TO in the neutral zone and turn it back up ice for a goal. Outside of not taking that pass (which he had to reach for) cleanly, Crosby had nothing to do with how horrible the defense played on the other goals

Sure, if you assume Crosby has zero defensive responsibilities - which you strongly imply by referring to "the defense" as if it doesn't involve the C.

Pens fans have been telling me how Crosby is a complete 200 foot player though, and how he's worth more than a winger due to his defensive intangibles.

I am glad you are here to debunk that nonsense.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Only goal in a game they were being trapped all game in the NZ because Letang handed them Game 5 which was basically Game 7? This is why he's stuck around so long. People looking at meaningless stats.

Goals are a meaningless stat now - in a game tied at 1 no less.

Wow.

Lay off the corsi son. lol

 

[SouthGeorge]

Goals are a meaningless stat now - in a game tied at 1 no less.

Wow.

Lay off the corsi son. lol

Without him they would have found a way to score just like they did all last years playoffs. They would have been for it because they don't have to worry about him giving up a breakaway to blow the game again.

 

[tarheelhockey]

What Crosby not being able to handle a blue to blue line pass? That happens but you don't expect losing the puck at their blue line and giving up a breakaway. That's just unacceptable. Letang has been making these mistakes his whole career.

Turning the puck over in the middle of the ice, to the other team’s top line while in the middle of a line change is a great way to surrender a breakaway.

It doesn’t make sense to bust Letang’s balls over that play and then say “that happens” to Crosby making an unforced turnover of that magnitude. It’s OT in an elimination game, you cannot just bumble the puck onto Ovechkin’s stick in the middle of the ice with your entire team heading the wrong way. It’s crazy to me that people are so focused on Letang’s presence on the ice that they’re not seeing this.

Again I truly don’t care about his past mistakes. I’m talking about the claim that he cost the team this specific goal, because he wasn’t able to move at light speed to cover for Crosby’s mistake.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Without him they would have found a way to score just like they did all last years playoffs.

That is a wild assumption.

-especially when the Caps held the Pens to 2.3 goals per game this series.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Turning the puck over in the middle of the ice, to the other team’s top line while in the middle of a line change is a great way to surrender a breakaway.

It wasn't in the middle of the ice. It was inside the offensive zone, 150 feet away off a quick hitter. It's not like they had possession and the D was set and Crosby turned it over there. He wasn't going for a line change either. We've already been over this.

 

[SouthGeorge]

That is a wild assumption.

-especially when the Caps held the Pens to 2.3 goals per game this series.

They beat he Caps last year without him and two years ago won the biggest game of the series when he was suspended.

 

[SenzZen]

Man some of you are quick to turn on players.

Threw Fleury under the bus before he was moved. Profess undying love for him when he returns.

I can only imagine the same with Letang.

It must be dizzying.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It wasn't in the middle of the ice. It was inside the offensive zone, 150 feet away off a quick hitter. It's not like they had possession and the D was set and Crosby turned it over there. He wasn't going for a line change either. We've already been over this.

Crosby was about a foot off the boards when he received the pass. If he handles it cleanly (or even just tips it into the zone, bats it down flat, anything really) there is no significant threat of a counter-rush. When he bobbled it, Kuznetsov poked it toward the middle of the ice. Crosby again couldn’t get a handle on it, the result being a flubbed puck that crossed right through the center lane, with all the Pens heading down ice while the Caps seized on the turnover for a rush the other way.

Letang was at the end of his shift, skating toward the bench, and a Pen was standing there waiting on him. Say it’s not a line change if you like, I can’t make you believe.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Turning the puck over in the middle of the ice, to the other team’s top line while in the middle of a line change is a great way to surrender a breakaway.

It doesn’t make sense to bust Letang’s balls over that play and then say “that happens” to Crosby making an unforced turnover of that magnitude. It’s OT in an elimination game, you cannot just bumble the puck onto Ovechkin’s stick in the middle of the ice with your entire team heading the wrong way. It’s crazy to me that people are so focused on Letang’s presence on the ice that they’re not seeing this.

Again I truly don’t care about his past mistakes. I’m talking about the claim that he cost the team this specific goal, because he wasn’t able to move at light speed to cover for Crosby’s mistake.

Check out the :04 mark of that vid- tell me what Letangs options are?

Go D to D with Dumo on his forehand and an acre of ice OR to Crosby on the wall with little speed on his backhand with a player in front and behind him?

What would you choose? Would you choose a safe play knowing that you were likely gassed and needed a change?

Crosby has to reach for the pass (bc it wasn't a good one) and when he tries to corral it, the backchecking Kuzi knocks it off his stick.

This is like blaming a WR for catching a pass and immediately getting crunched and the ball popping up in the air for an easy interception. You have to ask yourself: why'd the QB throw it to a guy basically blanketed when he had a running back wide the freak open in the flat underneath?

 

[These Are The Days]

Member when Pens fans were trying to argue he was still valuable despite his extensive injury history and so many concerns of his defensive play came in a small period of time?

I MEMBER!

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Member when Pens fans were trying to argue he was still valuable despite his extensive injury history and so many concerns of his defensive play came in a small period of time?

I MEMBER!

If you followed Letang's career arc you'd understand that in 2016 he had a significant turnaround and played at a top 5 Dman level. That was the Pens team that ran roughshod over everyone the 2nd half of the season. Letang was perfect for what the Pens were doing and he was doing it well. It wasn't his "defense" that was top notch, it was his passing it and carrying it out of the zone that were paramount to the success

People were surprised and then in early 2017 he reinjured his neck and his play spiraled downward and ended up missing like 1/2 of that season (and the playoffs). This season he started off terribly and then towards the end of the season seemed passable. Not outstanding, but not the defensive nightmare the past 2 weeks either

 

[Rodgerwilco]

I don't often agree with Mark Madden, but he was spot on when he talked about Letang...

Kris is the Penguins' new whipping boy/scapegoat. Yinzers always need a scapegoat, it used to be Fleury, now it's Letang. His highs are incredibly high and his lows are incredibly low, but Letang isn't the kind of player who just grows on trees. You don't plug just anyone into the lineup for 25+ minutes a game.

The guy came off a major neck surgery and still averaged 25 minutes a night. I'm not quite ready to cut the cord on him yet.