Value of: Kris Letang

[Michael Farkas]

It's about asset management meets roster building. You aren't limited to one move per offseason.

 

[Snippit]

How ****ed can they be? According to you, Letang was awful all year, and yet they still made the POs and went 6 games in R2. That doesn't sound like a team that's all that ****ed. Especially if Letang was as bad as you say he was.

It’s not just according to me. Even the majority of people on the Pens board share the same opinion.

Your justification is terrible. I could explain to you exactly why it’s flawed, but I think you know why.

 

[Liferleafer]

okay?

Was just explaining that this site is a "what have you done for me lately" site....and lately, Letang wasn't good, so people are valuing him lower because of it.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

It’s not just according to me. Even the majority of people on the Pens board share the same opinion.

Your justification is terrible. I could explain to you exactly why it’s flawed, but I think you know why.

Crosby, Malkin, Murray, and Guentzel are too good for the Pens to be “screwed”.

However, I will say that they will be in tough shape if they hold on to certain guys too long. Personally, I feel the Pens need to part ways with Letang, Maatta, and Sheary. Maybe even Kessel. I think all those trades are unlikely this summer but maybe a few. Rutherford said changes were coming so that is my hope as a Pens fan.

 

[I Like Eich]

I personally would love Letang on the Sabres despite his ups and downs, him + Dahlin added to our D-core would be a complete 180 from what we're used to. Cost would probably be too high for what Pittsburgh would want back, though.

Letang also has a NMC/NTC so until the Sabres actually start winning some hockey games this decade, i just safely assume Buffalo will always be on the do not trade to list for anyone

 

[domaug]

I personally would love Letang on the Sabres despite his ups and downs, him + Dahlin added to our D-core would be a complete 180 from what we're used to. Cost would probably be too high for what Pittsburgh would want back, though.

Letang also has a NMC/NTC so until the Sabres actually start winning some hockey games this decade, i just safely assume Buffalo will always be on the do not trade to list for anyone

maybe with the connection between Botterill and the Pens, a deal could be feasible.

if Letang's NTC wasn't a concern, what would you see Buffalo offering?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Knowing what I know about Letang, I wouldn't worry about the NTC.

a) 60% the league is ok by default
b) Letang is a very proud guy and he takes things very personally. If we ever approached him, he'd waive it. In fact, he'd more likely waive it if he could end up with a team that could stick it right back to us. I really wouldn't let that NTC bog down conversations...

 

[Toby Flenderson]

maybe with the connection between Botterill and the Pens, a deal could be feasible.

if Letang's NTC wasn't a concern, what would you see Buffalo offering?

Buffalo doesn’t have a whole lot of interesting pieces that are realistically available. Something around Nylander and McCabe maybe?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It’s not just according to me. Even the majority of people on the Pens board share the same opinion.

Your justification is terrible. I could explain to you exactly why it’s flawed, but I think you know why.

You're judging Letang on the opinion of a fanbase immediately after Letang had a bad series that contributed to the Pens losing to the Caps? Of course that's going to be affected by our current emotions over the loss. I'm pretty sure you'd also find some segment of Pens fans who think Murray sucked all year. Does he suddenly have little value? Kessel and Malkin had weak playoffs. Do they suddenly have little value?

The point YOU are missing is GMs in the NHL don't judge players based on their last ten games. They also don't judge a player with Letang's resume on one season. HF is notorious for it, but NHL GMs don't.

 

[I Like Eich]

maybe with the connection between Botterill and the Pens, a deal could be feasible.

if Letang's NTC wasn't a concern, what would you see Buffalo offering?

maybe a package around Alex Nylander if we're talking mainly futures, it would be selling low and early on him in his development process, but Botterill didnt draft him, so maybe he's not a fan of him. He certainly hasn't shown him anything to think otherwise so far, but he's still very young and the potential is obviously there.

not sure Buffalo would be willing to give up anything Pittsburgh would be asking for though, if that idea is of no interest. we have a pretty limited amount of valuable assets available for trade

 

[I Like Eich]

Buffalo doesn’t have a whole lot of interesting pieces that are realistically available. Something around Nylander and McCabe maybe?

my thoughts exactly. Nylander + McCabe + B-level pick/prospect?

 

[SenzZen]

You mean Kristopher?

 

[Snippit]

You're judging Letang on the opinion of a fanbase immediately after Letang had a bad series that contributed to the Pens losing to the Caps? Of course that's going to be affected by our current emotions over the loss. I'm pretty sure you'd also find some segment of Pens fans who think Murray sucked all year. Does he suddenly have little value? Kessel and Malkin had weak playoffs. Do they suddenly have little value?

The point YOU are missing is GMs in the NHL don't judge players based on their last ten games. They also don't judge a player with Letang's resume on one season. HF is notorious for it, but NHL GMs don't.

No, I mean Pens fans have been saying this all year - not just now. I frequent the board often. I also watch a decent number of Pens games and I would concur.

If you don't think Letang's value has dropped significantly this past year, you're out of your mind. A 31 year old player with a down year is not the same as a 24 year old with a down year. Why? Because with the 31 year old player, there is the very real possibility that that player is declining.

It's impossible to know for sure if Letang will ever come close to the level he was at in the 2016 playoffs, but the uncertainty is a big hit to his value. Nobody is going to hand you a top 10 pick for a guy making 7.25M that may or may not be on a sharp decline.

 

[domaug]

maybe a package around Alex Nylander if we're talking mainly futures, it would be selling low and early on him in his development process, but Botterill didnt draft him, so maybe he's not a fan of him. He certainly hasn't shown him anything to think otherwise so far, but he's still very young and the potential is obviously there.

not sure Buffalo would be willing to give up anything Pittsburgh would be asking for though, if that idea is of no interest. we have a pretty limited amount of valuable assets available for trade

i mean I'd probably see the Pens targeting a top-4 D-man as the main piece of a Letang trade and would balance that out with a mid- to late-1st round pick and a prospect or two.

what position does Nylander play? i know the Pens have a lot of wing depth currently.

 

[domaug]

No, I mean Pens fans have been saying this all year - not just now. I frequent the board often. I also watch a decent number of Pens games and I would concur.

If you don't think Letang's value has dropped significantly this past year, you're out of your mind. A 31 year old player with a down year is not the same as a 24 year old with a down year. Why? Because with the 31 year old player, there is the very real possibility that that player is declining.

It's impossible to know for sure if Letang will ever come close to the level he was at in the 2016 playoffs, but the uncertainty is a big hit to his value. Nobody is going to hand you a top 10 pick for a guy making 7.25M that may or may not be on a sharp decline.

you can say this here and even if everyone agrees with you on this board, that doesn't reflect how GMs value Letang. I'll wait and see what happens during the off-season. if I'm a gambling man, though, I'd say Letang stays in Pittsburgh this year.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

No, I mean Pens fans have been saying this all year - not just now. I frequent the board often. I also watch a decent number of Pens games and I would concur.

If you don't think Letang's value has dropped significantly this past year, you're out of your mind. A 31 year old player with a down year is not the same as a 24 year old with a down year. Why? Because with the 31 year old player, there is the very real possibility that that player is declining.

It's impossible to know for sure if Letang will ever come close to the level he was at in the 2016 playoffs, but the uncertainty is a big hit to his value. Nobody is going to hand you a top 10 pick for a guy making 7.25M that may or may not be on a sharp decline.

But you're moving goal posts. There's a difference between Letang not being as good as he was prior to 2017, and Letang basically being an albatross that no team in the league, even the ones lacking a #1D, wouldn't want to acquire.

This thread seems full of people who seem to think Letang's basically a bottom pairing defenseman who the Pens will have to attach a 1st round pick to in order to move, when the reality is pretty much every team that doesn't currently have a #1D would trade for him.

And this notion that the 10th overall pick has so much more value than a proven guy who, even in a "bad year" finished with 50 points, is typical HF idiocy.

 

[Snippit]

you can say this here and even if everyone agrees with you on this board, that doesn't reflect how GMs value Letang. I'll wait and see what happens during the off-season. if I'm a gambling man, though, I'd say Letang stays in Pittsburgh this year.

Me too.

 

[Snippit]

But you're moving goal posts. There's a difference between Letang not being as good as he was prior to 2017, and Letang basically being an albatross that no team in the league, even the ones lacking a #1D, wouldn't want to acquire.

This thread seems full of people who seem to think Letang's basically a bottom pairing defenseman who the Pens will have to attach a 1st round pick to in order to move, when the reality is pretty much every team that doesn't currently have a #1D would trade for him.

And this notion that the 10th overall pick has so much more value than a proven guy who, even in a "bad year" finished with 50 points, is typical HF idiocy.

I never said the bolded - that's a figment of your imagination.

I said he's not worth a top 10 pick at this point.

The reality of the situation is that he's a 31 year old defenseman coming off a bad season and brutal playoffs making 7.25M a year.

 

[I Like Eich]

i mean I'd probably see the Pens targeting a top-4 D-man as the main piece of a Letang trade and would balance that out with a mid- to late-1st round pick and a prospect or two.

what position does Nylander play? i know the Pens have a lot of wing depth currently.

Nylander is a winger, RW I believe

only top-4 D the Sabres could offer would be Bogosian, and that would be a downgrade for Pittsburgh, since his status as a top-4 D is arguable at best. I'd love to add to Bogosian for Letang, but I'd be even more shocked if the Pens entertained that thought

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I never said the bolded - that's a figment of your imagination.

I said he's not worth a top 10 pick at this point.

The reality of the situation is that he's a 31 year old defenseman coming off a bad season and brutal playoffs making 7.25M a year.

The stuff you bolded was in reference to this entire thread, where people have indeed labeled him as nothing more than a third pairing defenseman and essentially an albatross contract.

As for not worth the 10th overall pick, I think you're wrong. If Pittsburgh told Edmonton he was available for their first round pick, you honestly don't think Chiarelli would jump at the chance to add Letang to their lineup? Letang's literally what that team needs most (a #1D who can QB the PP).

Chiarelli gave up the 16th overall pick (as well as an early 2nd) for GRIFFIN REINHART. Yet you seem to think a proven top pairing defenseman like Letang would never land the 10OA?

 

[Randy Randerson]

would the Pens be looking for a futures package or a roster player in return?

 

[Peat]

would the Pens be looking for a futures package or a roster player in return?

Depends which Pens fan you asked.

But logically, we're in win now mode, so presumably roster players. Any non-win now assets are only entertained for their value in acquiring win- now. I guess at a stretch we might take a prospect who's a year away from being a big contributor on an ELC.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I think a package around:

Pacioretty
Petry

For

Letang
Sprong

Makes sense. Pens get a top 4 defenseman to replace Letang in Petry. 1yr earlier finishing of the contract. Pittsburgh gets another top 6 30g scorer and be able to fit it under the cap.

Montreal could use the youth and Pittsburgh try to go for a few more cups over the next couple of years.

I can’t even imagine what Pacioretty would look like next to Crosby or Malkin. Be ridiculous.

Add to either side to work it out.

Thats terrible.

We have absolutely no need for letang since we have Weber, Petry and Juulsen on the right side.
And then we also trade Pacioretty for a winger prospect? Patch will return much more than just sprong.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Depends which Pens fan you asked.

But logically, we're in win now mode, so presumably roster players. Any non-win now assets are only entertained for their value in acquiring win- now. I guess at a stretch we might take a prospect who's a year away from being a big contributor on an ELC.

wondering if Gardiner might be a fit. He's a poor man's LH version of Letang, but he's a few years younger and his next contract is probably less expensive than Letang currently is, still has a year left at just over $4M

we're likely to deal Gardiner anyway with Dermott looking like he's ready for 2nd pairing duties

 

[Peat]

wondering if Gardiner might be a fit. He's a poor man's LH version of Letang, but he's a few years younger and his next contract is probably less expensive than Letang currently is, still has a year left at just over $4M

we're likely to deal Gardiner anyway with Dermott looking like he's ready for 2nd pairing duties

Maybe. We'd still need to find a RH top 4 dman though, which is easier said than done, but it wouldn't be a bad start if we decided to ship Letang out to have a defence built around 5-6 top 4 dmen, depending on what he thinks his next contract should be - and what you'd add to make up the value difference.