Confirmed with Link: Kraken sign Driedger. 3 x 3.5M

[RainyCityHockey]

I still don't understand why Driedger was the FLA pick as a UFA, when they could have secured a cost controlled offensive player like Vatrano and still signed Driedger on the market. This, the whole Dillon/Vanacek/picks mess, and the complete lack of expansion draft protection deals, leaves me a lot less excited about this franchise than I was initially. Seems like a huge missed opportunity.

That's pretty easy to understand.

Signing Driedger during the 48 hour negotiation window = negotiating with him as the only possible destination.
Letting him go to free agency = bidding war with other teams maybe offering him more that those $3.5 mil.

It's also not that hard to aquire a guy like Vatrano.
And we also got another Panthers player in Wennberg during FA.

BTW: Who ever thought that Dillon would be worth two 2nd rounders?
And who knows if that's what Winnipeg offered Francis in order to select and trade him there?
And on top of that, who ever knew that Grubauer would be available to us and wouldn't have gotten a tandem of Driedger/Vanecek during the expansion draft?

You could argue the selections from Columbus or Chicago, but criticizing those two, with the knowledge at the expansion draft, doesn't make much sense.

 

[kurt]

That's pretty easy to understand.

Signing Driedger during the 48 hour negotiation window = negotiating with him as the only possible destination.
Letting him go to free agency = bidding war with other teams maybe offering him more that those $3.5 mil.

It's also not that hard to aquire a guy like Vatrano.
And we also got another Panthers player in Wennberg during FA.

BTW: Who ever thought that Dillon would be worth two 2nd rounders?
And who knows if that's what Winnipeg offered Francis in order to select and trade him there?
And on top of that, who ever knew that Grubauer would be available to us and wouldn't have gotten a tandem of Driedger/Vanecek during the expansion draft?

You could argue the selections from Columbus or Chicago, but criticizing those two, with the knowledge at the expansion draft, doesn't make much sense.

Regarding Driedger, was he that important of a piece that they didn't want to risk bidding a little higher to still get him after their exclusive period ended? Put a deal in the drawer and get another asset in the process? Guys like Vatrano are certainly not that hard to acquire, but cost controlled players aren't free. And goal scoring isn't free.

As far as "who ever thought Dillon would be worth two 2nd rounders" - isn't part of the due diligence of expansion draft prep to review every exposed player, and shop that player's value around the league to determine who will net you the most value? Preparing for this draft was the full time job of multiple people. And sure, markets change every day, but this is a pretty big change. I'm not talking about what Winnipeg would have offered Francis - I'm talking about what the established trade value of the piece was.

And if Grubauer didn't fall into their lap (which again, if this is actually how this played out leads me to be less confident in their draft preparation), there were still tons of other goaltending options out there in the market. It's not like they would have been screwed if they didn't have Vanacek. A second round pick is a pretty expensive temporary insurance policy.

 

[kurt]

It's amazing to me how such small moves have created so many blanket regarding loss of interest and of trust in an GM's ability to perform when a team hasn't played a single game.

If they succeed on the ice that will definitely help matters, but doesn't change the fact that a few things have happened that seem to pretty strongly indicate they left a assets on the table and declined opportunities to leverage their position for no clear reason. Both can be true.

 

[SoldiersOfFilth]

the whole Dillon/Vanacek/picks mess

there really isn't a mess though. The plan was to run Driedger/Vanacek, no one expected Grubauer to be available

 

[Irie]

1. Regarding Driedger, was he that important of a piece that they didn't want to risk bidding a little higher to still get him after their exclusive period ended? Put a deal in the drawer and get another asset in the process? Guys like Vatrano are certainly not that hard to acquire, but cost controlled players aren't free. And goal scoring isn't free.

2. As far as "who ever thought Dillon would be worth two 2nd rounders" - isn't part of the due diligence of expansion draft prep to review every exposed player, and shop that player's value around the league to determine who will net you the most value? Preparing for this draft was the full time job of multiple people. And sure, markets change every day, but this is a pretty big change. I'm not talking about what Winnipeg would have offered Francis - I'm talking about what the established trade value of the piece was.

3. And if Grubauer didn't fall into their lap (which again, if this is actually how this played out leads me to be less confident in their draft preparation), there were still tons of other goaltending options out there in the market. It's not like they would have been screwed if they didn't have Vanacek. A second round pick is a pretty expensive temporary insurance policy.

1.) what you are suggesting with Drieger is strictly against the rules of expansion, and a very likely way for Seattle to lose their first round pick. Think the risk of throwing next years 1st away is worth Vatrano?

2.)Vanecek was worth the opportunity cost of Dillon. Had they not signed Grubauer, Vanecek would be worth more than the extra late 2nd that they lost.

3.) Your wait and hope strategy on goalies because there are "tons of other goaltender options out there" is exactly what Buffalo did. How did that work out for them?

 

[The Marquis]

Of this expansion draft the only actual head scratchers were Quenneville and Bayreuther, but even then, some players had to go. It had to happen.

 

[Irie]

Of this expansion draft the only actual head scratchers were Quenneville and Bayreuther, but even then, some players had to go. It had to happen.

I believe Quenneville and Bayreuther were targeted for their unique UFA situations.

Seattle did not want anything from either team, nor were they going to sign anyone they selected from either team.

Given the covid scheduling changes, where free agency started on July 28th, and RFA qualifying offers weren't due till August 3rd, Francis didn't want to screw over a RFA he didn't plan on signing by not allowing them to partake in the opening days of the UFA market.

So he takes guys that have unique circumstances and are free to sign wherever without having to wait a week. It was just a "good-guy" move in my opinion.

Not saying I don't understand the questioning of whether or not he should have targeted someone else, just that I understand the logic.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I believe Quenneville and Bayreuther were targeted for their unique UFA situations.

Seattle did not want anything from either team, nor were they going to sign anyone they selected from either team.

Given the covid scheduling changes, where free agency started on July 28th, and RFA qualifying offers weren't due till August 3rd, Francis didn't want to screw over a RFA he didn't plan on signing by not allowing them to partake in the opening days of the UFA market.

So he takes guys that have unique circumstances and are free to sign wherever without having to wait a week. It was just a "good-guy" move in my opinion.

Not saying I don't understand the questioning of whether or not he should have targeted someone else, just that I understand the logic.

I do have to say the Chicago one was the strangest one for me. Not taking Zadorov was a head scratcher because it was easy to assume that he had more value than the likes of Quenneville. He was a RFA and even if we never re-signed him, a big physical D-man who is proven at the NHL level was guaranteed to have decent value in a trade.

Dallas really did not have anyone of interest once Bishop waived his NMC and let Khudobin be protected. That plus the Stars traded Dickinson to the Canucks.

 

[Irie]

I do have to say the Chicago one was the strangest one for me. Not taking Zadorov was a head scratcher because it was easy to assume that he had more value than the likes of Quenneville. He was a RFA and even if we never re-signed him, a big physical D-man who is proven at the NHL level was guaranteed to have decent value in a trade.

Dallas really did not have anyone of interest once Bishop waived his NMC and let Khudobin be protected. That plus the Stars traded Dickinson to the Canucks.

I personally didn't think Zadorov had any value either before the draft. Rumor was that he was looking for 4.5 per year, and given his subpar defensive metrics for a defensive defenseman, I figured he would be a cap dump for anyone that signed him to anything remotely close to 4 mil.

All it takes is one GM to be interested for their to be perceived value. I do wonder whether or not Calgary would have come to Francis for Zads after he poached their captain from them though, so who is to say that Treliving would have traded for him from Seattle, or if other teams were interested?

I was actually quite happy when Francis didn't take him to be honest. He's a physical presence, which has some value, but he is always out of position trying to hit someone. He costs his teams more chances than he generates by a large margin, so I am glad he will be doing that on another team.

For what it is worth, I had Gaudette from Chicago on my board. I think the talent is there, but I just don't think he was the type of player Francis was targeting, for better or worse.

Totally agree with the Dallas assessment. Oleksiak was on my draft board, even though i knew he was going to be overpaid, just because there was no one else and I thought he had value. I am not upset with the AAV, just wish it was 3 or 4 years instead of 5.

 

[kurt]

1.) what you are suggesting with Drieger is strictly against the rules of expansion, and a very likely way for Seattle to lose their first round pick. Think the risk of throwing next years 1st away is worth Vatrano?

2.)Vanecek was worth the opportunity cost of Dillon. Had they not signed Grubauer, Vanecek would be worth more than the extra late 2nd that they lost.

3.) Your wait and hope strategy on goalies because there are "tons of other goaltender options out there" is exactly what Buffalo did. How did that work out for them?

What rule are you referring to? Do you have a link or something? Why would they have lost a first round pick if they signed a UFA that was unprotected, after their exclusive negotiating period ended? They signed Schwartz as UFA, who was unprotected, but picked Dunn. They signed Johansson, who was also unprotected, but picked Soucy. Heck, from the very same Panthers they signed an unprotected Wennberg after waiting until he was UFA, but picked Driedger. Why could they not have done the same thing with Driedger, and picked another cost controlled asset?

The league also didn't do a thing about deals like the Ovechkin/Capitals arrangement - I can't imagine they could do anything about a team signing an unprotected UFA after picking another player from the same team (which they didn't do, as illustrated above).

And is the risk really that high? If Driedger didn't want to go to Seattle he wouldn't have signed the deal during their exclusive negotiating period - he would have declined the offer and gone to UFA.

Lastly, I think you are mistaken about how much effort the Sabres are going to to spend their cap and ice a competitive lineup this year. All signs seem to be pointing to them committing to a rebuild. I don't see how they serve as a cautionary tale about the risk of signing a UFA that demonstrably wants to sign with your team for the terms you are offering. Who do you think Buffalo had a similarly reasonable interest from, that slipped through their fingers?

And regarding #2 - why was the lost 2nd round pick worth it? Was Vanacek really that critical a piece of their proposed roster, so much so that another player, a 2nd round pick, and an alternative goaltender in the market wouldn't have sufficed?

I don't know. Ron Francis clearly hasn't capitalized on at least a handful of opportunities so far.

 

[gstommylee]

What rule are you referring to? Do you have a link or something? Why would they have lost a first round pick if they signed a UFA that was unprotected, after their exclusive negotiating period ended? They signed Schwartz as UFA, who was unprotected, but picked Dunn. They signed Johansson, who was also unprotected, but picked Soucy. Heck, from the very same Panthers they signed an unprotected Wennberg after waiting until he was UFA, but picked Driedger. Why could they not have done the same thing with Driedger, and picked another cost controlled asset?

The league also didn't do a thing about deals like the Ovechkin/Capitals arrangement - I can't imagine they could do anything about a team signing an unprotected UFA after picking another player from the same team (which they didn't do, as illustrated above).

And is the risk really that high? If Driedger didn't want to go to Seattle he wouldn't have signed the deal during their exclusive negotiating period - he would have declined the offer and gone to UFA.

Lastly, I think you are mistaken about how much effort the Sabres are going to to spend their cap and ice a competitive lineup this year. All signs seem to be pointing to them committing to a rebuild. I don't see how they serve as a cautionary tale about the risk of signing a UFA that demonstrably wants to sign with your team for the terms you are offering. Who do you think Buffalo had a similarly reasonable interest from, that slipped through their fingers?

And regarding #2 - why was the lost 2nd round pick worth it? Was Vanacek really that critical a piece of their proposed roster, so much so that another player, a 2nd round pick, and an alternative goaltender in the market wouldn't have sufficed?

I don't know. Ron Francis clearly hasn't capitalized on at least a handful of opportunities so far.

There is nothing against the rules about leaving a UFA unprotected. The player is under no obligation to sign with Seattle during the exclusive window...

No one knew grubby was gonna make it to the free agency market. We had to take 3 goalies. Its not that simple of just take a goalie from somewhere else.

Btw we did sign a 2nd player via florida via FA market Wennberg.

 

[kurt]

There is nothing against the rules about leaving a UFA unprotected. The player is under no obligation to sign with Seattle during the exclusive window...

No one knew grubby was gonna make it to the free agency market. We had to take 3 goalies. Its not that simple of just take a goalie from somewhere else.

Btw we did sign a 2nd player via florida via FA market Wennberg.

I know they signed FA Wennberg. And I also know there’s no rules about leaving UFAs unprotected.

The post I was replying to claimed Seattle would be penalized a first round pick if, instead of burning their pick on Driedger, they instead picked a player with term (I suggested Vatrano) and signed Driedger as a UFA after the exclusive window closed.

I’m unaware of such a rule existing. If there is one I’d love a link to it.

 

[gstommylee]

I know they signed FA Wennberg. And I also know there’s no rules about leaving UFAs unprotected.

The post I was replying to claimed Seattle would be penalized a first round pick if, instead of burning their pick on Driedger, they instead picked a player with term (I suggested Vatrano) and signed Driedger as a UFA after the exclusive window closed.

I’m unaware of such a rule existing. If there is one I’d love a link to it.

It would be tampering if done after exclusive window and before the opening of the FA window.

 

[kurt]

It would be tampering if done after exclusive window and before the opening of the FA window.

I’m talking about signing a UFA during the UFA window. Negotiating during the exclusive negotiating period, but signing during the UFA window. They couldn’t have done this with Grubauer as he was protected, but Driedger was not.

 

[Irie]

What rule are you referring to? Do you have a link or something? Why would they have lost a first round pick if they signed a UFA that was unprotected, after their exclusive negotiating period ended? They signed Schwartz as UFA, who was unprotected, but picked Dunn. They signed Johansson, who was also unprotected, but picked Soucy. Heck, from the very same Panthers they signed an unprotected Wennberg after waiting until he was UFA, but picked Driedger. Why could they not have done the same thing with Driedger, and picked another cost controlled asset?

The league also didn't do a thing about deals like the Ovechkin/Capitals arrangement - I can't imagine they could do anything about a team signing an unprotected UFA after picking another player from the same team (which they didn't do, as illustrated above).

And is the risk really that high? If Driedger didn't want to go to Seattle he wouldn't have signed the deal during their exclusive negotiating period - he would have declined the offer and gone to UFA.

Lastly, I think you are mistaken about how much effort the Sabres are going to to spend their cap and ice a competitive lineup this year. All signs seem to be pointing to them committing to a rebuild. I don't see how they serve as a cautionary tale about the risk of signing a UFA that demonstrably wants to sign with your team for the terms you are offering. Who do you think Buffalo had a similarly reasonable interest from, that slipped through their fingers?

And regarding #2 - why was the lost 2nd round pick worth it? Was Vanacek really that critical a piece of their proposed roster, so much so that another player, a 2nd round pick, and an alternative goaltender in the market wouldn't have sufficed?

I don't know. Ron Francis clearly hasn't capitalized on at least a handful of opportunities so far.

Maybe I am misinterpreting your implication of "deal in the drawer", but the league has shown time and time again to drop the hammer on any team taking liberties with loopholes. The Expansion draft rules are clear, "if a team signs a UFA, that will count as the expansion player drafted from that club". Setting up a contract during the window, and holding off on submitting it till the UFA period to double dip from a team in the draft would be a clear violation of the spirit of the expansion rules, and the NHL ABSOLUTELY penalizes teams committing rule infractions with extreme prejudice (New Jersey, St. Louis, Arizona. etc)

And yes, the security with the Vanecek pick was totally worth the late 2nd round pick that they did not get. Judging by your repeated misspelling of his name, I have a feeling you are not very familiar with the player.

There was a huge uncertainty about which, if any free agents might want to sign with an expansion team, and while there were several goalies available, the proven starters without serious question marks or injury histories were slim pickings.

The odds in Vegas(casinos, not golden knights) Grubauer would sign with Seattle were so low, that if you bet on it, you'd be a rich man now - so pretending that it transpiring and not being part of the plan in Seattle is some sort of mark against Francis is ludicrous.

Having Driedger and Vanecek as a plan in net was very solid. Francis upgraded and picked up a second in the process. Nothing wrong with what transpired. It is all fine to measure opportunity costs in a vacuum with 20-20 hindsight, but to pretend that comparing those to real-time decisions in the real world is realistic is completely disingenuous.

The belief that all the other GMs weren't playing poker the entire expansion draft and instead showing their hands to Francis so he could get the best deal from each team is totally unrealistic. Your simplistic generalization of "the established trade value of the piece(player)" is silly. I would bet that if Chevy tried to trade Dillon right now for two 2nds, there would be zero takers. established trade value is not a thing other than what one GM was willing to finally give up for a player. It does not mean the player is worth that value around the league.

 

[gstommylee]

I’m talking about signing a UFA during the UFA window. Negotiating during the exclusive negotiating period, but signing during the UFA window. They couldn’t have done this with Grubauer as he was protected, but Driedger was not.

That's not against the rules as long as the talking to was done during the exclusive window and not between it and the FA market.

 

[DustyMartellaughs]

I think Driedger is going to surprise some people and push to be used far more than a typical backup, which can only be a good thing for the Kraken.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Driedger on the Wally and Methot Show.
Starts at 46:00 min mark.

 

[Le Cobra]

I dont know where the Daccord thread is but please stop playing Grubauer he sucks. he is costing yall games you shouldnt be losing.

give Dreidger and Daccord more games to prove themselves. 2 games is not enough to write them off. Grubauer is not playing like an NHL goalie. He needs to have an avg .900 or more to be competent