GDT: Kraken @ Devils - 7:00 PM - MSG

[Brooklyndevil]

I guess I’m going the opposite of general opinion and this game wasn’t very good for the Devils unless you think Seattle is extremely good. The Devils were pretty dominated the first 15 minutes of the game and I think the last 45 minutes were fairly even, leaving Seattle as having been the better team.

A lot of the Devils problems were controlling the puck and passing it to a teammate where they can receive the pass. This should fix itself on its own.

Outside of that, the Devils struggled mightily to break out of their own zone. Seattle was comfortable leaving 4 and even sometimes 5 guys in the zone, even in situations where the Devils likely should have been able to comfortable clear it. The Devils really never even came close to making them pay for this aggressiveness.

The Devils also struggled to skate the puck through the neutral zone and into the offensive zone, which is something the Devils were good with early in the year. Seattle was really standing the Devils up at their own blue line and the Devils just slammed themselves into the teeth of that for the first 15 minutes of the game. Once they started dumping more frequently things got better but the Devils also aren’t as good at doing that.

All in all, I think this game highlighted how well opponents are pre-scouting the Devils and how the Devils struggle to respond when their A game is stifled. I know it’s surprising to say but the Devils have just been out-talenting teams for the last little bit while other teams have come with better gameplans. The Devils need to improve their game planning so they can let the talent shine even more.

That’s on the coach. Ruff is definitely no genius when it comes to game plans.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

Yeah it sucks we aren't winning games real convincingly but at the end of the day we are still winning and that is a great sign. Good goalies are supposed to steal you games and keep you in them. If you watch the highlights both teams traded scoring chances when it was a tie game. Nico hitting the post on what would be one of our best goals of the year , Sharangovich had a really good chance too. We went 2 for 4 on the powerplay and have went 5 straight games at home with a perfect penalty kill , team also went 60% in the faceoff dot. On to the next one against the Wild. Let's see if we can continue road dominance.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

That’s on the coach. Ruff is definitely no genius when it comes to game plans.

Top 5 team in goals for , top 10 powerplay , top 5 in goals against , top 5 in shots against , average penalty kill...Team still has good stats to back up their wins...

 

[Camille the Eel]

I guess I’m going the opposite of general opinion and this game wasn’t very good for the Devils unless you think Seattle is extremely good. The Devils were pretty dominated the first 15 minutes of the game and I think the last 45 minutes were fairly even, leaving Seattle as having been the better team.

A lot of the Devils problems were controlling the puck and passing it to a teammate where they can receive the pass. This should fix itself on its own.

Outside of that, the Devils struggled mightily to break out of their own zone. Seattle was comfortable leaving 4 and even sometimes 5 guys in the zone, even in situations where the Devils likely should have been able to comfortable clear it. The Devils really never even came close to making them pay for this aggressiveness.

The Devils also struggled to skate the puck through the neutral zone and into the offensive zone, which is something the Devils were good with early in the year. Seattle was really standing the Devils up at their own blue line and the Devils just slammed themselves into the teeth of that for the first 15 minutes of the game. Once they started dumping more frequently things got better but the Devils also aren’t as good at doing that.

All in all, I think this game highlighted how well opponents are pre-scouting the Devils and how the Devils struggle to respond when their A game is stifled. I know it’s surprising to say but the Devils have just been out-talenting teams for the last little bit while other teams have come with better gameplans. The Devils need to improve their game planning so they can let the talent shine even more.

Very good take. I’d add though how we saw last night that the Devils without Hughes are pretty much in the same class as the Kraken. As to not skating the puck through the neutral zone, Hughes is in the top three forwards in the league at that (with McDavid and Mackinnon) and that’s one place we missed him big time.

Take Jack away from us, and we are a decent bubble team right now. Without him this year no way we would be third in the league in points at this stage of the season.

 

[Buggsy]

It's great to have players like Hamilton or Hughes if you're playing fantasy hockey; where only points matter (in fact I've been cleaning up lately with Dougie).

However, there are two ends of the rink and Hischier (as well as some of those other players you mentioned) are far better in all three zones.

The Devils power play didn't miss a beat without Hughes last night - in fact I don't know if Hughes makes the play Tatar did on the first goal.

That's because Hughes wouldn't be in Tatars spot. That's where Palat would be.

Also what is Hughes EV stats this year? He clearly must be a net negative for goal production based on your opinion of him.

If Jack Hughes is McDavid in your theory that's way off.

Hughes is a nice offensive player who contributes on the power play.

Nico does everything.

Nico made more plays below the dots in his own end last night than Hughes does in five games, had the screen on the game-winning goal, created all night AND assisted on the empty net goal.

Almost a Crosby-esque game if you are comparing players to some of the game's best.

Jack Hughes on the powerplay is your synopsis of his game?

You are calling Hughes a PP specialist?

Are you out of your mind? What the hell

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

its just the weirdest take that a few people here have that every player has to be Jay Pandolfo

yes, Hamilton is not a good positional defender...but you know what? If he puts up a point per game, I can forgive that. And Hughes is actually a pretty competent defender, especially considering where his career was ~2 years ago or so.

Not every player has to be some stalwart defensive player. This isn't 1993.

 

[PWiz30]

It's great to have players like Hamilton or Hughes if you're playing fantasy hockey; where only points matter (in fact I've been cleaning up lately with Dougie).

However, there are two ends of the rink and Hischier (as well as some of those other players you mentioned) are far better in all three zones.

The Devils power play didn't miss a beat without Hughes last night - in fact I don't know if Hughes makes the play Tatar did on the first goal.

And at the same time the Kraken had far fewer second chance opportunities than the Canucks did the previous game.

Yeah, what a liability this guy is.

 

[Bleedred]

its just the weirdest take that a few people here have that every player has to be Jay Pandolfo

yes, Hamilton is not a good positional defender...but you know what? If he puts up a point per game, I can forgive that. And Hughes is actually a pretty competent defender, especially considering where his career was ~2 years ago or so.

Not every player has to be some stalwart defensive player. This isn't 1993.

Jay Pandolfo is probably THE most overrated Devil EVER. I think I just said this a week ago when it came up.

Not much no more, because it's been 13 years since he played here and he's kind of slipped through people's minds.

But he got way too much credit back in the day for being such a ''Stalwart shutdown forward''.

He was pretty bad by about 2006-2007 and his last contract, which was rationalized with the logic that ''Oh, he's overpaid now because he was so underpaid for years and years'' was terrible and he was terrible probably before it was even signed.

I wouldn't even put him in a Devils ring of honor, if we were to actually put players in it. For what? He was a good shutdown player for a few years (literally JUST a few years) on a team FILLED with GREAT shutdown players and Brodeur? Madden was a bit overrated as well, but he was also wayyyyyy better than Pandolfo, but neither were great at shutting anything down by about 2007. Maybe even 2006 for Pandolfo.

He was also the FAR inferior player on that line with Madden and Langenbrunner. Langs was easily the best player on that line, quite a bit better than Madden, who was quite a bit better than Pandolfo. And both Holik and Zajac were waaayyyyyyyy better than Madden, but Madden was here for 2 cups (so was Holik) and he didn't jump ship to the Rangers when he was still a good player, like Holik did.

 

[Devs3cups]

Very good take. I’d add though how we saw last night that the Devils without Hughes are pretty much in the same class as the Kraken. As to not skating the puck through the neutral zone, Hughes is in the top three forwards in the league at that (with McDavid and Mackinnon) and that’s one place we missed him big time.

Take Jack away from us, and we are a decent bubble team right now. Without him this year no way we would be third in the league in points at this stage of the season.

To be fair, take away most team’s best player and they wouldn’t be where they are in the standings.

 

[NJDevs26]

It's great to have players like Hamilton or Hughes if you're playing fantasy hockey; where only points matter (in fact I've been cleaning up lately with Dougie).

However, there are two ends of the rink and Hischier (as well as some of those other players you mentioned) are far better in all three zones.

The Devils power play didn't miss a beat without Hughes last night - in fact I don't know if Hughes makes the play Tatar did on the first goal.

And at the same time the Kraken had far fewer second chance opportunities than the Canucks did the previous game.


Did you start the "Sorry, Blackie" chant?

Uh you need guys to score in real life too, not just fantasy or you probably missed the fact the Devils lose 1-0 or 2-0 last night if not for ‘fantasy points’, and certainly lose Monday without Hughes and Bratt’s combined three goals. You might like the Haulas and McLeods of the world more than Hughes and Dougie because you seem to rate intangibles and backchecking as MORE important than actually scoring goals when it’s just not the case.

You have six guys on the ice that can help prevent goals, not everyone has to be John Madden, but eventually you need guys who can score to win. Role players aren’t doing that consistently.

 

[Triumph]

I am fully aware of the cap/roster logistics of bringing in a mid-season pickup off waivers, and you are fully aware that I was drawing a player quality comparison as opposed to a practical roster recommendation.

But your player quality comparison was strictly incorrect. Every player listed is either worse or not a center.

Penalty killers do not need to be centers, and 4th line centers do not need to be penalty killers.

You need a center on PK1, or at least somebody who can take faceoffs, and who can do it well. Ideally you have two faceoff guys on your first unit, that way the first guy can cheat a bit and not risk anything. You want to have someone else who can take faceoffs on the PK.

If McLeod was abducted by aliens today, our PK would take a hit but it's still a top half of the league unit. Obviously the unicorn of an ES play driver, quality PKer, center, making cheap money is usually only found in young ELC guys that quickly outgrow that role (Blake Coleman) or get overpaid by contenders (Brandon Hagel). But that doesn't mean that in the absence of such a player we should be okay settling for mediocrity.

Coleman didn't play center here much at all.

I'm okay settling for mediocrity because the reality is so much worse.

I don't particularly care about previous 4th liners in this context. Rooney or Kalinin or Stephen Gionta or whatever, they don't matter to the performance of this team. McLeod is the one on this roster right now and he's a bad player completely independent of how bad those other guys were.

You're seemingly not understanding that the reason why 4th line centers are bad is because 4th liners are de facto bad players, even though you've identified that it is really only young players who ever excel in that role and are quickly moved off it.

My points still stand - it is not hard to find penalty killing 4th liners, and players better than McLeod have been waived this season.

Name two.

He is not a major contributor to this roster and we should continue to work on finding an upgrade to him. His skill set is easily replaceable and upgradeable. If we have to pay a bit more money to bring in a quality vet, I am fine with that.

It's neither thing, not at that price.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

Top 5 team in goals for , top 10 powerplay , top 5 in goals against , top 5 in shots against , average penalty kill...Team still has good stats to back up their wins...

Maybe it just me being upset with the number of odd man rushes the team has been giving up and them having trouble with teams that clog the neutral zone. However, I was happy with their defensive effort from the 2nd period on last night.

 

[TF1970]

another solid showing from Zetterlund last night too IMO

 

[Devils731]

Devils 3, Kraken 1: Blackwood stole two points

This agrees with what I saw, the Devils were beaten in both volume and quantity last night, which isn’t good.

I think expected goals can be wonky but the shot attempt volume tells a true story here. Especially with the Devils settling for a bunch of weaker shots which I don’t think Seattle did as often.

 

[Its Always Sundstrom]

Uhh...I mean...Seattle is just 3 points behind Vegas (the top team in the West) so.....Yeah.

I think they're extremely good.

Now are they Boston-Bruins "extremely good" (or even Carolina "extremely good")? No. But let's not dismiss them as if they are the Canucks or something.

And you brought it up yourself later on in regards to game-planning which falls more on COACHING than the actual players.

Perfect example is the Devils finally deciding to dump and chase even if it's not their forte.

But you know what? It cut down on the turnovers considerably and allowed them to play better defensively when there wasn't odd-man rushes every 5 seconds (it felt).

Great post but this version of Glen scares me and makes me uncomfortable.

Someone hold me.

 

[MasterofGrond]

totally disagree with everything on this post.


I think he is way under rated on this board. he is our best faceoff guy.. plays really well in his own end kills penalties is big fast etc. i like mcleod a lot as 4th line center.. he is important to this team

I don’t know where the myth that’s he’s good in his own end comes from. Is it more “Canadian center who can’t score and is good on the PK so he must be good defensively?”

Because he’s not, at least he’s not at the only thing that matters, preventing opponents from getting good shots on net. At that he’s below average.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

The team has been crap for 10 or 15 games now. It's no surprise the fancy charts reflect that. They are stealing wins on talent, but I will absolutely take it. It will be interesting to see how much longer they can sustain it without Jack though. I think the next game will be very telling.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Devils 3, Kraken 1: Blackwood stole two points

This agrees with what I saw, the Devils were beaten in both volume and quantity last night, which isn’t good.

I think expected goals can be wonky but the shot attempt volume tells a true story here. Especially with the Devils settling for a bunch of weakershots which I don’t think Seattle did as often.

View attachment 648092

Eh. Fairly evenly played game. At 5 on 5 1.73 xGF for us to 2.06 for them. I wonder how much of that dark spot on the heat map came on the 5 on 3. They didn’t execute, we did, we win, they lose.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The team has been crap for 10 or 15 games now. It's no surprise the fancy charts reflect that. They are stealing wins on talent, but I will absolutely take it. It will be interesting to see how much longer they can sustain it without Jack though. I think the next game will be very telling.

Except they weren't crap last night. That's a false narrative

 

[Camille the Eel]

To be fair, take away most team’s best player and they wouldn’t be where they are in the standings.

Yeah but when the best player is a Mackinnon or Hughes (and I don't think I'm over rating Jack right now by mentioning him in the same breath as Mackinnon, although they are very different talents, not the same at all)- but anyway, us missing Hughes is missing, how shall we put it, 50% of our offensive threat? More? I can't really put a percentage on it, of course, there's no methodology for doing so.

But we are more dependent on Jack than say the Bruins are on Pasta, or Marchand, or Hall, or Bergeron alone. Take Ovechkin away from Washington, maybe they are less hobbled than we are without Jack. I'm looking for an analogy. I really think Colorado's play without Mackinnon is about as analogous as I can get, and they still had Makar the whole time.

At a certain point, I'm flogging a dead horse here. I agree with you. But my qualification of it is that he is by so much our best player, and such a unique talent in driving play because of the way he can just skate the puck and stop and start and practically no one can force him to give it up one on one . . . anyway that we miss him more than most clubs would miss a generic best player.

My point was that without him we are a bubble team. Not a bottom feeder any more but back in the pack.

 

[tailfins]

its just the weirdest take that a few people here have that every player has to be Jay Pandolfo

yes, Hamilton is not a good positional defender...but you know what? If he puts up a point per game, I can forgive that. And Hughes is actually a pretty competent defender, especially considering where his career was ~2 years ago or so.

Not every player has to be some stalwart defensive player. This isn't 1993.

Why would you ask a defenseman to be Jay Pandolfo?

Hamilton is getting paid #1D money. He shouldn't be compared to Shayne Gohstisbehere. I hadn't watched Hamilton closely until he came to the Devils. I was expecting someone closer to Severson on the defensive side, with obviously more offense.

They guy is playing 20+ min a night (18+ min at evens). I'm shocked at how poor his defense is.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Why would you ask a defenseman to be Jay Pandolfo?

Hamilton is getting paid #1D money. He shouldn't be compared to Shayne Gohstisbehere. I hadn't watched Hamilton closely until he came to the Devils. I was expecting someone closer to Severson on the defensive side, with obviously more offense.

They guy is playing 20+ min a night (18+ min at evens). I'm shocked at how poor his defense is.

Because Jersey Fan 12 shits on Hughes and Bratt and Hamilton any chance he gets. You know, our best players?

Also, I don't give a shit what hes paid. What does that matter in season? Erik Karlsson has been the best offensive DMan in the league this year and he also stinks defensively.

If Hamilton were as good defensively as he was offensively, he'd be the best DMan in the league.

Severson's career high in points was 46, last year. Hamilton is ALREADY past that with 31 games to go....

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Why would you ask a defenseman to be Jay Pandolfo?

Hamilton is getting paid #1D money. He shouldn't be compared to Shayne Gohstisbehere. I hadn't watched Hamilton closely until he came to the Devils. I was expecting someone closer to Severson on the defensive side, with obviously more offense.

They guy is playing 20+ min a night (18+ min at evens). I'm shocked at how poor his defense is.

He’s getting paid #1 D money and is earning every single cent and then some. Clearly.

 

[AfroThunder396]

I haven't played this game since the Adam Larsson Saga with Jim, but if you insist:

But your player quality comparison was strictly incorrect. Every player listed is either worse or not a center.

I didn't list any players, you did, and you listed players waived in the last month when I explicitly said this season. Don't put words in my mouth and then call them incorrect.

I am not specifically saying that we should or should not have put in a claim for any of those players. There are lots of reasons a team might refuse to claim a superior hockey player - age, contract, AAV, injury history, position, role, off-ice factors, etc.

I also said nothing about centers, I said "players better than McLeod have been waived this season." Which, by the way, you agreed with here:

Now there are guys on this list who I think are better than McLeod, but who don't play center and who don't make 975k. I've always been a fan of Hinistroza, but he falls into that class of player who doesn't really kill penalties and doesn't play much on the PP and these guys are always in danger of slipping out of the league even though they have some offense. That's the same story with Balcers. Erne makes way too much money. The truth is, players like McLeod don't go on waivers and they get snapped up when they do.

Again - you are the one who is talking about claiming players off waivers and that they need to be of a certain age and a certain salary and a certain position, etc. I'm not saying to claim these guys, I'm saying they're better hockey players than Michael McLeod. That's it. Period. Anything beyond that is 100% your words.

You need a center on PK1, or at least somebody who can take faceoffs, and who can do it well. Ideally you have two faceoff guys on your first unit, that way the first guy can cheat a bit and not risk anything. You want to have someone else who can take faceoffs on the PK.

This is a luxury and not a requirement. I am more concerned about the second forward on the ice being a good penalty killer than them being good at faceoffs. If they're good at both, great, but it's not needed. We have two very good penalty killing centers in Hischier and Haula, both of which are good at faceoffs.

I am not giving a roster spot to a player simply so that they can be the spare faceoff guy on a penalty kill unit, c'mon.

Coleman didn't play center here much at all.

I'm okay settling for mediocrity because the reality is so much worse.

He played center almost exclusively during his first 2016-17 call up and then transitioned to wing early in the 2017-18 season, but still got spot duty at center when needed.

Either way, your opinion is noted.

You're seemingly not understanding that the reason why 4th line centers are bad is because 4th liners are de facto bad players, even though you've identified that it is really only young players who ever excel in that role and are quickly moved off it.

I am well aware that bad players, on average, tend to be worse than good players. Your condescension is greatly appreciated. That does not mean all 4th liners in the NHL are equally bad, or that this area of a roster cannot be reasonably improved.

The coaching staff clearly values rolling four lines, and that strategy does not work if one (or more) of the lines is bad at their job. So - improve that line. Wood is a bigger problem and I'm pretty confident at this point that we'll be moving on from him soon. Maybe that will help McLeod but I would prefer if we replaced him. Even if it costs more money to do so.

Name two.

Forwards clearly better than Michael McLeod that have been put on waivers this season:
Jakub Vrana
Eeli Tolvanen
Craig Smith
Tyson Jost
Adam Erne

Forwards I would submit that are better than McLeod but I have no interest in arguing the point because I'm at work and this is silly:
Vinnie Hinostroza
Karson Kuhlman
Nick Aube-Kubel
Mikey Eissimont
Rudolfs Balcers
Axel Johnsson-Fjallby

Again - many legitimate reasons for not claiming these guys. Many legitimate reasons for not making these guys play 4th line center. But IMO all of them are, overall, better hockey players than Michael McLeod. They might not be better on the PK, they might not be better at faceoffs, they might not be cheaper. I don't care. Overall, in a vacuum, with no other considerations, I would pick those guys to be on my team over McLeod. And that's the only point I was making.

It's neither thing, not at that price.

I literally said in the paragraph you're quoting that I'd pay a higher price to get both. Which you're clearly ignoring. I get that this is a hobby for you and I usually enjoy watching you cook, but you can do better than this.

 

[Triumph]

I haven't played this game since the Adam Larsson Saga with Jim, but if you insist:


I didn't list any players, you did, and you listed players waived in the last month when I explicitly said this season. Don't put words in my mouth and then call them incorrect.

I am not specifically saying that we should or should not have put in a claim for any of those players. There are lots of reasons a team might refuse to claim a superior hockey player - age, contract, AAV, injury history, position, role, off-ice factors, etc.

I also said nothing about centers, I said "players better than McLeod have been waived this season." Which, by the way, you agreed with here:

I mean, it doesn't matter if the players aren't centers, because that is the position McLeod plays. Would it matter if they were defensemen or goalies?

Again - you are the one who is talking about claiming players off waivers and that they need to be of a certain age and a certain salary and a certain position, etc. I'm not saying to claim these guys, I'm saying they're better hockey players than Michael McLeod. That's it. Period. Anything beyond that is 100% your words.

I never said you wanted to claim them. You made an assertion about it being easy to find players of this caliber on the waiver wire.

This is a luxury and not a requirement. I am more concerned about the second forward on the ice being a good penalty killer than them being good at faceoffs. If they're good at both, great, but it's not needed. We have two very good penalty killing centers in Hischier and Haula, both of which are good at faceoffs.

Haula is not signed beyond this season.

I am not giving a roster spot to a player simply so that they can be the spare faceoff guy on a penalty kill unit, c'mon.

Good thing I never said that was something a team should do. It is nice when you have a player like this who is also competent at ES.

I am well aware that bad players, on average, tend to be worse than good players. Your condescension is greatly appreciated. That does not mean all 4th liners in the NHL are equally bad, or that this area of a roster cannot be reasonably improved.

It can be reasonably improved, the issue is that A: it costs more and B: the player added almost certainly doesn't have team control. There's a bunch of UFA centers this off-season in that cohort, I just don't see how e.g. Acciari or Nosek or Bonino figure to be better.

Forwards clearly better than Michael McLeod that have been put on waivers this season:
Jakub Vrana
Eeli Tolvanen
Craig Smith
Tyson Jost
Adam Erne

All of these guys make at least double what McLeod makes besides Tolvanen. The only center there is Jost.

Forwards I would submit that are better than McLeod but I have no interest in arguing the point because I'm at work and this is silly:
Vinnie Hinostroza
Karson Kuhlman
Nick Aube-Kubel
Mikey Eissimont
Rudolfs Balcers
Axel Johnsson-Fjallby

Again - many legitimate reasons for not claiming these guys. Many legitimate reasons for not making these guys play 4th line center. But IMO all of them are, overall, better hockey players than Michael McLeod. They might not be better on the PK, they might not be better at faceoffs, they might not be cheaper. I don't care. Overall, in a vacuum, with no other considerations, I would pick those guys to be on my team over McLeod. And that's the only point I was making.

Okay, so you were making a point that wingers are better than centers? None of these guys play center. If that was the only point you were making, you sure went to great lengths to make it - I don't know why you didn't just say 'there's a lot of wingers who are better than McLeod who were available on waivers'. Then I could just move past it. Is Andreas Johnsson better than McLeod? Sure.

I literally said in the paragraph you're quoting that I'd pay a higher price to get both. Which you're clearly ignoring. I get that this is a hobby for you and I usually enjoy watching you cook, but you can do better than this.

I'm not ignoring it, I just think it's much harder to find a better player than you do. There are 4th line centers who play there their whole career, guys like Nosek and Acciari and McLeod, and then there's guys who get there at the end of their careers like Eric Staal and Derek Stepan. The latter guys are often better, but they present a bigger risk - sometimes that sort of player is just totally done - and also they often only have a year left, so you have to go find another guy. I just think of the career 4th line types, McLeod is fine, and he has two more years of team control.