Kraken defense vs Leaf defense which is better?

[BrannigansLaw]

Dunn has been bad for a couple years now. Essentially another Dermott.

If anything Lauzon or Soucy would be good targets

Lauzon would have been great. I’m a big fan of his physicality. He’s got some kind of mean streak for sure.

 

[robertmac43]

Lol what? This goes to the Leafs and I don't think it's particularly close.

 

[EXTRAS]

Soucy being heavily underrated here. They took him over kahkonen for a reason. The guy is a top 4 dman.

 

[Duffman955]

Clearly leafs defense is better.

Now that's settled, let's compare Kraken forward group vs the local beer league runners up

 

[cookie]

Speaking of defence, the coach’s lineup decisions are a significant weak point. With the sentiment behind Dubas being that he loves smaller skilled players, it was ironic that the Leafs had a myriad of players who simply weren’t given a shot without much justification.

There was a tweet showing just how bad Holl’s hand got visibly near the end of regular season coming into in playoffs. The shot analytics drastically plummeted yet the coaching staff saw fit to continue on playing him. Makes little sense when you consider the quality of talent waiting for their shot: Dermott can and has played right side defence in juniors and desperately needs the penalty kill responsibilities for player development purposes. Liljegren has been NHL ready since Babcock was coach, with his initial cup of coffee oftentimes stymied by high ankle sprains. Those are two candidates that can play the puck retrieval role for Muzzin seamlessly.

Why not give your workhorse some room to breathe and recover while also trying out all the tools having been made available to you?

Then there was that desperate (almost last second) attempt to fix the power play in the playoffs by putting Sandin in. The first unit started looking not only cohesive but dangerous again with Sandin but the kid was promptly replaced. What is the thinking behind this? Put a cold player in a position to not only not succeed but also let him sit even when he shows competence in an area your team is struggling in?

Throughout the season, the constant complaint was based on salary cap roster constraints. Yet, the team got a head start and was in the privileged position of icing leaner rosters to the benefit of resting older players, keeping daily accruing cap expenses down by incorporating journeymen like Marincin and other AHLers at near league minimum. That’s a failure on the coaching staff in my opinion.

 

[Stinger8]

I think its closer than most people who have replied. If Giordano has anything left I like him in 1 year comparison more than Reilly. Larson played very well last year, is top 4 in our rotation.... future??? I like Oleksiak more than most. Bottom 2 have upside. Point for me is an expansion team can field a real close defense for similar money. Its another indictment against Dubas in my mind.

 

[member 298589]

Who would win in a fist fight?

My dad would.

 

[member 298589]

I think its closer than most people who have replied. If Giordano has anything left I like him in 1 year comparison more than Reilly. Larson played very well last year, is top 4 in our rotation.... future??? I like Oleksiak more than most. Bottom 2 have upside. Point for me is an expansion team can field a real close defense for similar money. Its another indictment against Dubas in my mind.

Or it means the expansion draft is working as the owners intend?

 

[RantanenRavin]

Who would win in a fist fight?

Depends who gets the first krack-in....

 

[notbias]

Cale Fluery is a stay at home defenseman. He isn’t an offensive guy. And he wasn’t force fed minutes in 2019-20. He made the team out of camp, he earned it. He’s played more games than Liljegren at the NHL level. Don’t get me wrong Liljegren is an offensive guy and can put up numbers but Cale Fluery is way better defensively

I think Liljegren still suffers from draft hype. He was hyped up as this offensive D and no one knows he has slowly transitioned his game into a really solid defense-first player with great transition skills. I think he gets severely underrated by most fans.

I really think Liljegren > Sandin at this time and likely going forward, I think there is a really good chance Liljegren ends up being a complimentary #2 where Sandin will end up being anything from a #1 to #4 (I think it will be closer to 3/4).

 

[francis246]

I think Liljegren still suffers from draft hype. He was hyped up as this offensive D and no one knows he has slowly transitioned his game into a really solid defense-first player with great transition skills. I think he gets severely underrated by most fans.

I really think Liljegren > Sandin at this time and likely going forward, I think there is a really good chance Liljegren ends up being a complimentary #2 where Sandin will end up being anything from a #1 to #4 (I think it will be closer to 3/4).

Id love for both to make an impact. I think there were better players available than Liljegren and other defenseman that went after him have already become decent NHLers. I’m sure he has the potential to be a top 4 guy.

Sandin has shown glimpses so he has more potential but he is a bit small. The one thing that I don’t like about Dubas is that he feels that if you have size there is no way you can have skill. How many great defenseman are under 6 feet though? Not many, he needs to change the drafting philosophy, skill should still be prioritized but they need a combination of skill and size, why are other teams able to draft 6’2 defenseman who can move the puck and play physical but our GM thinks that cannot exist

 

[The Iceman]

Right now the Kraken defense looks like this (it may get better??)

Giordano Oleksiak

Dunn Larson

Soucy Fleury

If they can improve upon the 3rd pairing I am not sure which is better. What say you

$17.6 million top 4 for Leafs
$18.1 million for Seattle
So should be close but Toronto significally better. Gio is 37 and no longer should be a top 2 D

 

[notbias]

Id love for both to make an impact. I think there were better players available than Liljegren and other defenseman that went after him have already become decent NHLers. I’m sure he has the potential to be a top 4 guy.

Sandin has shown glimpses so he has more potential but he is a bit small. The one thing that I don’t like about Dubas is that he feels that if you have size there is no way you can have skill. How many great defenseman are under 6 feet though? Not many, he needs to change the drafting philosophy, skill should still be prioritized but they need a combination of skill and size, why are other teams able to draft 6’2 defenseman who can move the puck and play physical but our GM thinks that cannot exist

The part about Dubas isn't true.

We had a top 10 team in terms of size last year.

His drafting philosophy as far as I know is draft for skill/IQ, if someone has that and size, I am sure he will take them, it is just hard to find that combination after the first round (Robertson, Debrincat are good examples of too small for the first round). I'd much rather draft a good hockey player than players like Middleton or Ransanen because they are large.

I also don't think we draft overly small players in general, I think most of the D we draft are 5'11 - 6'1, these are also generally teenagers, so there is a chance they grow a little more.

 

[francis246]

The part about Dubas isn't true.

We had a top 10 team in terms of size last year.

His drafting philosophy as far as I know is draft for skill/IQ, if someone has that and size, I am sure he will take them, it is just hard to find that combination after the first round (Robertson, Debrincat are good examples of too small for the first round). I'd much rather draft a good hockey player than players like Middleton or Ransanen because they are large.

I also don't think we draft overly small players in general, I think most of the D we draft are 5'11 - 6'1, these are also generally teenagers, so there is a chance they grow a little more.

how is it hard to find? Brandon Carlo was a second round pick.. we passed on him to take Dermott which I still hate to this day. We had Carlo and Aho and we took Dermott.. , Shea Weber was a second rounder, Ryan Graves a 4th rounder. It's not that hard to find, it's hard to find when you are constantly avoiding taking them. There are players who have the combination, go look for them

 

[PromisedLand]

I am confused about how is it that Kraken didn't have many side deals. I am more interested in that then whose defense is better

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Obviously the Leafs have a better D since Dubas pulled out all the stops to keep All Star D Justin Holl.

 

[AvroArrow]

Leafs D easily. The Kraken are not going to be a very good team. They are likely tanking for the next 2 drafts, probably the smart move.

 

[Ashdown2]

what a stupid thread

 

[bentharbs]

Lol is this actually up for debate. It isn’t close. Leafs.