Komarov, Grabovski and MacArthur

[Cor]

let me get this straight. you are saying:

roster that isn't making the playoffs > roster that made the playoffs?

lol sure

Mac and Grabo were not top 6 forwards when we made the playoffs, in his lineup, they were top 6 forwards. Neither of them have been top 6 forwards on a playoff team.

Bolland is not better than Grabovski though.

Sure he is. Grabo/Bolland would be used in a third line role, and Bolland is the most effective.

Every team Grabo has been a top 6 forward on, has missed the playoffs. It wasn't until we reduced his minutes and his role that we made the playoffs.

 

[Super Mega]

Mac plays hard on contract years, you dont want cancer like that.

Grabo is much more complex but he would have been great at the 3m the caps got, no doubt it was his contract that was a burden. Bottom line though, he should have been tested on wing with Lupul and Kadri, let him take C on vital draws so Kadri could develop. The issue with Grabo was how he responded to the 3rd line role, he just doesn't have the ability to play a focused defensive role. He doesnt have the flexibility someone like Kulemin has, he is 1st/2nd line scoring or you got to move him.

Management just saw Clarkson as better upgrade for 2nd winger, crazy obviously as most knew at the time but I feel this is how they rationalized not trying him at wing. I wont talk about how awful Clarkson turned out but I do agree Grabo lost center to Kadri last season and sucked in the 3rd C role and he needed to be moved. They just should have moved him to wing first before shipping him.

 

[Super Mega]

Bolland is not better than Grabovski though.

In the 3rdC role? its no contest sorry, Bolland when healthy crushes Grabo there - we have 3 great PK players in bolland/bozak/jmcc, thats what you want in your 3rd C is a guy like Bolland.

The question will be does he need 4m+ to stay

 

[diceman934]

Bolland is not better than Grabovski though.

Really...in the same role 3rd line checking center.....Bolland vastly superior and a major reason why Chicago beat Vancouver....for the Stanley Cup! Then follows that up with the cup winning goal....

Bolland by the way played the hardest minutes of all Chicago forwards in his last 4 years.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

What gets to me is that Nonis bought out Grabo just to sign an even uglier contract with Clarkson. Unbelievable! What a waste of a compliance buy out.

bingo. major mistake.

 

[BigBush*]

wha- what?

I was insinuating that his lineup, is worse then the one we had now.

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Komarov
Raymond - Bolland - Kulemin
D'Amigo - McClement - Ashton

Don't sign Clarkson, and give Komarov the 1 year, 3M he wanted.

Bolland > Garbo
Raymond > Mac
Komarov > Clarkson

best of both worlds

Raymond better than Mac? You kidding? Mac is a beast, Raymond couldn't beat up a midget hockey player

 

[Hockey Talker29]

If we had hung onto Grabo, we'd be in the playoffs. His contract would have cost us Clarkson, which actually would have been great.

Not to mention we could have used the center depth with all of our injuries. I hated wasting the buyout on him, because he likely would have had an improved year, and the contract would have been tradable afterwards. Even if he was terrible, we could have used the buyout this year.

He had way more heart than every player on this team.

 

[MoeMoney]

Buying out Grabo was gutless, a day before his wedding to. Burke would have never done that. One of my favourite Leafs in years, really cared about the team and loved playing for the Leafs. Why would you get rid of a guy like that? His contract wasn't so bad either relative to his peers. He had one bad year and everyone knew he would rebound as he's done in Washington, I've hated Nonis since.

 

[rdawg1234]

Raymond isnt quite as good as Mac for sure but its more of a side step than anything, mac brought a little better posession and passion

Grabo brought energy, but bolland is a better fit, we upgraded that position, he just got badly injured.

Komarov was never replaced, Clarkson hasnt even done half of what he was doing last season and that contract was just brutal, literally one of the worst moves ive ever witnessed if Clarkson doesnt get better next year.

So essentially I only miss Komarov, the other two are very easily upgraded, and really Raymond came at 1m, so it was an upgrade in that sense.

We badly need the extra depth though, remember we lost frattin too, so I didnt feel like we had that extra guy or two who would step up in case of injury like last year with Mac Frattin and Kadri did at times. IF we were lucky this year the 2nd like woudl score, but the third line was useless, last year it felt like all lines were buzzing at times.

 

[Ash35]

Stop living in the past and move on.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Really...in the same role 3rd line checking center.....Bolland vastly superior and a major reason why Chicago beat Vancouver....for the Stanley Cup! Then follows that up with the cup winning goal....

Bolland by the way played the hardest minutes of all Chicago forwards in his last 4 years.

It's amazing we have people that actually think this, Bolland is a proven Stanlley Cup winner as a 3C. If he was not hurt for 50+ games, we would be in the playoffs.

 

[KuleminFan41]

I think buying out Grabo was a big mistake.

1. I'm sure if there were stats on puck possession, Grabo would have been at the top last year. This has been our biggest problem this year.

2. Grabo was one of the hardest working guys I'd ever seen play in the blue and white. So basically, buying him out was telling the rest of the team, "It doesn't matter how hard you work, if Randy doesn't like you, you are gone." Not the greatest message going into this season.

Same goes for Komarov. The dude gave 110% every game, and they couldn't even give him an extra million to keep him here? So we lost, IMO, the two hardest working players on the team for nothing. Excellent strategy Nonis. It doesn't always matter how many points someone puts up. A good work ethic is infectious.

Grabo had great puck possession numbers, now tell me how great was his passing? Because the guy did very little of it and would get stripped off the puck or gets smashed into the boards. I loved Grabo and defended the guy but he was playing poorly, Clarkson level poorly . Hell, Grabo was on the ice for nearly every goal Boston scored on the Leafs during the playoffs. Thats insane

 

[The Winter Soldier]

If we had hung onto Grabo, we'd be in the playoffs. His contract would have cost us Clarkson, which actually would have been great.

Not to mention we could have used the center depth with all of our injuries. I hated wasting the buyout on him, because he likely would have had an improved year, and the contract would have been tradable afterwards. Even if he was terrible, we could have used the buyout this year.

He had way more heart than every player on this team.

How so, with 73GP, 28 points, -26 totals under Randy Carlyle.

Grabovski hated playing in the Randy Carlyle system.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

How so, with 73GP, 28 points, -26 totals under Randy Carlyle.

Grabovski hated playing in the Randy Carlyle system.

I already explained why. The player his cap space was used on turned out to be the biggest disappointment in the NHL this season.

Also, with the amount of centermen that went down for us, he would have filled in nicely compared to the other players we had playing those roles.

If he had a decent season this year, his contract would have been moveable without a compliance buyout. There was barely any risk in keeping him around. There was a lot of risk buying him out. And now look where we are.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Bolland is not better than Grabovski though.

Bolland is definitely a better player. Grabovski is awful defensively and is a good player on a bad team.

The biggest thing is this team had the benefit of young legs + teams not being able to get their game plans fully in place in a shortened condensed lockout season.

The fact that the Leafs have to many poor defensive forwards and a weak D group is getting exposed just like two seasons ago because teams that excel in a typical season play a defensively responsible and tougher, cycle, board game in the offensive zone as the season progresses.

The Leafs PK plummeting this year is also a major factor.

5 on 5 even last year we let in among the most goals in the league but our PK was # 2 in the league.

McClement has definitely regressed and the Bolland injury was a killer. Having Franson on the PK is a nightmare.

 

[htpwn]

Miss Komarov.
Miss Grabovski, especially since those dollars were allotted to Clarkson.

I think Raymond pretty effectively replaced MacArthur though, at a third of the price.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I already explained why. The player his cap space was used on turned out to be the biggest disappointment in the NHL this season.

Also, with the amount of centermen that went down for us, he would have filled in nicely compared to the other players we had playing those roles.

If he had a decent season this year, his contract would have been moveable without a compliance buyout. There was barely any risk in keeping him around. There was a lot of risk buying him out. And now look where we are.

You said we would have made the playoffs with this player, I don't see how, given his awful performance under this coach, maybe you forgot to add that to your analysis. The facts do not support your argument.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

What gets to me is that Nonis bought out Grabo just to sign an even uglier contract with Clarkson. Unbelievable! What a waste of a compliance buy out.

I firmly believe Carlyle played a hand in that.

Lets not forget that this Leafs team tripped and fell flat on its face a few feet from the finish line 2 seasons ago with Grabo and Mac. This year they did it inches from the finish line

 

[nussell]

The problem is we have to many soft or slow players
Raymond- to soft doesn't know how to pass
Dion- to soft not a leader
Franson- to soft to slow to dumb
Clarkson- to slow to much money but has heart
Kadri- to soft bad give aways
We replace these players with some bigger bodies that like to bang like Blake Wheeler, Steve Ott, Karmarov 2 good stay at home Dmen .And a new coach that knows how to teach defense

 

[SuperDuper101]

Well, this would have been nice if we wanted Ekblad.

You know where Grabo, and Mac in our top 6 got us last time they were there? No where. We collapsed out of the playoffs with them there.

You know where their current teams are with them in their top 6? Out of the playoffs.

They are top 6 players on non-playoff teams.

This is just silly. MacArthur has been fantastic for Ottawa. He's a top 6 forward on 90% of the teams in the league. His on ice possession numbers are excellent. And when he and his line are on the ice 60% of the goals scored are in his teams favour. He certainly has nothing to do with Ottawa's missing the playoffs. For that see --> Goaltender regression & Defense + budget team holding back young players (Stone, Da Costa, etc) because they didn't want to pay them.

Grabo has been pretty darn good for the Capitals, 33 pts in 50 games and a plus player on a non-playoff team. Driving possession as he regularly does. Strong defensively as well. Oh, and did I mention he's a 54% face-off guy?

You can't attribute the success of a whole team to one player. These two guys are not the reasons their team isn't in the playoffs. The are solid contributing members. I think it's time to stop pretending you aren't disappointed with Clarkson & Admit that everyone was right who told you that MacArthur & Grabo should have been kept. The Corsi people were right on this one. You'd probably be in the playoffs with these 2 guys in your lineup. In fact I'd bet on it. Komarov was a loss too, he was more effective than the scrubs you play on the 4th line.

Randy plays 3 lines all game because he doesn't have a 4th line. Imagine how much that wears on your players during a season. Not having a reliable 4th line that can add energy and play 8 minutes a night of responsible hard working hockey puts increased ice time and pressure on the top 3 lines. That pressure over time wears them down. Surprise surprise, the 3 line team is running out of gas down the stretch. It's a story as old as time.

 

[htpwn]

This is just silly. MacArthur has been fantastic for Ottawa. He's a top 6 forward on 90% of the teams in the league. His on ice possession numbers are excellent. And when he and his line are on the ice 60% of the goals scored are in his teams favour. He certainly has nothing to do with Ottawa's missing the playoffs. For that see --> Goaltender regression & Defense + budget team holding back young players (Stone, Da Costa, etc) because they didn't want to pay them.

Grabo has been pretty darn good for the Capitals, 33 pts in 50 games and a plus player on a non-playoff team. Driving possession as he regularly does. Strong defensively as well. Oh, and did I mention he's a 54% face-off guy?

You can't attribute the success of a whole team to one player. These two guys are not the reasons their team isn't in the playoffs. The are solid contributing members. I think it's time to stop pretending you aren't disappointed with Clarkson & Admit that everyone was right who told you that MacArthur & Grabo should have been kept. The Corsi people were right on this one. You'd probably be in the playoffs with these 2 guys in your lineup. In fact I'd bet on it. Komarov was a loss too, he was more effective than the scrubs you play on the 4th line.

Randy plays 3 lines all game because he doesn't have a 4th line. Imagine how much that wears on your players during a season. Not having a reliable 4th line that can add energy and play 8 minutes a night of responsible hard working hockey puts increased ice time and pressure on the top 3 lines. That pressure over time wears them down. Surprise surprise, the 3 line team is running out of gas down the stretch. It's a story as old as time.

He did have a 4th line.

He just decided to continue playing the Orrs and McLarens of the world over the Ashtons and D'Amigos.

 

[pacdunes]

Komarov is a third line player.

He brought an attitude to the room and to the ice that changed this team. His relentless hitting, and his pestiness is something we have been missing dearly.

Grabo and MacArthur weren't effective here at all. They didn't bring much of anything to the team this year. Dave Bolland in his short amount of time played this year looks a hell of a lot better then Grabo did, and as much as I dislike Raymond, he likely has done more then Mac would on that third line.

Komarov is the player we missed. He had an affect on this team, and that locker room that we need.

Yep - every successful team has a 3rd line that can hit, forecheck and play hard against the other team's defense. We have lost that aspect this year. How the heck did our management allow this?

 

[marquee]

All i hear is how bolland performed in a 2nd round matchup with the canucks?

Some of you overstate his impact. Lets also mention bolland may walk this off season if a deal isnt made....

 

[colchar]

I don't know about you guys, but, since our goalies haven't been able to bail us out in this 8 game losing streak, I have really missed those 3 guys!!

Someone (I can't remember who it was) said in another thread how we might have 1 of the worst group of forwards who are defensively responsible and I completely agree with whoever said that.

I have come to the conclusion that losing Macarthur, Grabo and most importantly Komarov and replacing them with Raymond, Bolland and Clarkson has turned out to be a major and I mean MAJOR mistake by Nonis!!

Because Although the former weren't producing as much as we thought they would last season, at least they were incredible defensively And they really helped the defense along the boards constantly winning puck battles and clearing it out of the zone relatively easily.

Plus, 2 of those 3, (Komarov and Macarthur) were GREAT on the PK. (hence why we were 2nd in PK% last year If I remember correctly)

Now, let's take a look at Raymond, Bolland and Clarkson shall we! I will give a free pass to Bolland because he got injured a month into the season and is clearly not 100% since his return. But, holy ****, look at how bad Clarkson and Raymond have been for us defensively, especially Clarkson. I think I can count on 1 hand the number of puck battles Clarkson has won along the boards in our own end this year and I may need a group of about 30 or 40 people's hands to count how many times he has turned the puck over.

Thoughts?

You cannot blame the Leafs for losing Komarov. He wanted to make the Olympic team and felt that his best chance to do so came from playing in the KHL. Because of his Olympic ambitions, he was not going to stay here this season. Now that the Olympics are over he is talking about wanting to come back.