Knowing what you know now.....
- Thread starter ViewsFromThe6ix
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ViewsFromThe6ix
Zachary on the Attackary
This is why I said its alot closer than people think.....I think its hardly Clarkson let alone "AINEC"
Okay okay that view is at least respectable, but as stated, this is about specifically Dougie/Seguin.
Yeah, this is completely wrong. Boston had series issues with Seguin off the ice and they started to leak out publicly during last years playoff run. The return you stated justified trading him, but the reason behind shopping him was the issues.
Do a quick google search, tons of articles
http://nesn.com/2013/07/cam-neely-a...rformance-both-contributed-to-trade-decision/
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Yeah but it's an unfair question because one is a trade, and one is a signing. We gave up assets for Kessel, where as we just gave up cap space for Clarkson.
ViewsFromThe6ix
Zachary on the Attackary
I picked these two because they have potentially the largest impact on this organization for the forseeable future, judging by the thread and the votes i think its pretty close anyway.
achtungbaby
Registered User
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Boston has a strict vision of what they want their club to be. If they really wanted to keep Kessel I imagine they would have done more to do that.
You have to hand it the bruins, how many clubs can trade two young promising players and still keep humming along? They might regret one or both of the moves sometime but they've done well for themselves.
Kessel trade. Without Kessel in the lineup those picks would have been higher.
2010: Taylor Hall
2011: (Ryan Nugent-Hopkins,Gabriel Landeskog, Jonathan Huberdeau, Adam Larsson, Ryan Strome , Mika Zibanejad, Mark Scheifele, Sean Couturier, Dougie Hamilton )
DD03
3D
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Sure it has an effect. But either way it's not like Kessel is some shining light off the ice. He's busy eating cookies and playing video games, all the while being the most one-dimensional soft player in the NHL..
Kessel trade. Without Kessel in the lineup those picks would have been higher.
2010: Taylor Hall
2011: (Ryan Nugent-Hopkins,Gabriel Landeskog, Jonathan Huberdeau, Adam Larsson, Ryan Strome , Mika Zibanejad, Mark Scheifele, Sean Couturier, Dougie Hamilton )
Don't forget about the 2nd round pick that was also moved that wouldn't have been bad to have either.
no but they invented a hockey discussion board which for the most part is all based on perception and opinion
mashedpotato
full stack.
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Easy. Rask trade - I'm not even sure how this isn't considered as one of the worst decisions. ever. By anyone. In the history of mankind.
Second Kessel trade - Seguin would have supplied a position of need; there was once a rumor for kessel for Kaberle and 7 OA;
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=282967
If we're turning the clocks back, I would have still traded for Kessel, just not for Seguin, Hamilton and Knight.
Then Clarkson - I'm not ready to throw the guy under the bus with the way he started last season - if he doesn't have a bounceback season, then under he goes.
Second Kessel trade - Seguin would have supplied a position of need; there was once a rumor for kessel for Kaberle and 7 OA;
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=282967
If we're turning the clocks back, I would have still traded for Kessel, just not for Seguin, Hamilton and Knight.
Then Clarkson - I'm not ready to throw the guy under the bus with the way he started last season - if he doesn't have a bounceback season, then under he goes.
masarume
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For those defending the Kessel deal still, I somewhat understand.
But look at it this way. Without him, our record would've been worse (unless you're going to attempt an argument to humour me).
Would you rather have Kessel.
Or Hall/Seguin/Johansen & Landeskog/Huberdeau/Couturier
Even if we went off the boars and went Johansen/Couturier, our team would be much much better defensively.
Or imagine Landeskog and Seguin working together...
But look at it this way. Without him, our record would've been worse (unless you're going to attempt an argument to humour me).
Would you rather have Kessel.
Or Hall/Seguin/Johansen & Landeskog/Huberdeau/Couturier
Even if we went off the boars and went Johansen/Couturier, our team would be much much better defensively.
Or imagine Landeskog and Seguin working together...
If the Leafs don't trade for Kessel, then that means the team would have gotten less goals from Kessel on the roster had they replaced him with another right winger to take his position.
Back in 2009 the top two free agent right wingers were Hossa and Havlat. Hossa would have signed with Chicago, but if the Leafs threw an extra million per year at Havlat ($6 million) instead of Minnesota's offer of $5 million then the Leafs may have landed Havlat in free agency.
That means Havlat would have scored less goals than Kessel on the roster as a replacement.
The Leafs would have still ended up with Seguin for the 2010 draft.
For the 2010-11 season, Havlat scored 22 goals, so that would shave off 15 goals from that season, which would have dropped the Leafs at about 7th overall. So the Leafs would have had the opportunity to draft either Scheifele, Couturier or Hamilton.
For the 2011-12 season, Havlat scored 7 goals over Kessel's 37 goals, which would drop the overall goal total for the Leafs at 30 goals. That would put the Leafs in contention for the 2nd overall pick again, which would have the Leafs select either Ryan Murray, Galchenyuk or Rielly. Does Burke still take Rielly 2nd overall? Who know...it is possible.
After Havlat scoring that low, the Leafs would most likely have compliance buyout Havlat and Komisarek, keeping Grabovski instead.
So with Grabovski still on the roster the chances of the Leafs signing Clarkson would be very slim seeing Grabovski would have taken that cap space to sign Clarkson.
For 2012-13, the Leafs would have most likely have made the playoffs but most likely lower seed playoff position, in which the Leafs may have been able to draft one of Wennberg or Lazar.
Of course this year Kessel scored 37 goals again, which would mean without his goals the Leafs would probably end up somewhere around 5th or 6th overall for this year's draft. Maybe even 4th overall.
This is all hypothetical of course, but people should factor in how the Maple Leafs would have fared without Kessel's production should he not have been traded to the Leafs, and the type of lower end replacement the Leafs would have used for the top line.
Back in 2009 the top two free agent right wingers were Hossa and Havlat. Hossa would have signed with Chicago, but if the Leafs threw an extra million per year at Havlat ($6 million) instead of Minnesota's offer of $5 million then the Leafs may have landed Havlat in free agency.
That means Havlat would have scored less goals than Kessel on the roster as a replacement.
The Leafs would have still ended up with Seguin for the 2010 draft.
For the 2010-11 season, Havlat scored 22 goals, so that would shave off 15 goals from that season, which would have dropped the Leafs at about 7th overall. So the Leafs would have had the opportunity to draft either Scheifele, Couturier or Hamilton.
For the 2011-12 season, Havlat scored 7 goals over Kessel's 37 goals, which would drop the overall goal total for the Leafs at 30 goals. That would put the Leafs in contention for the 2nd overall pick again, which would have the Leafs select either Ryan Murray, Galchenyuk or Rielly. Does Burke still take Rielly 2nd overall? Who know...it is possible.
After Havlat scoring that low, the Leafs would most likely have compliance buyout Havlat and Komisarek, keeping Grabovski instead.
So with Grabovski still on the roster the chances of the Leafs signing Clarkson would be very slim seeing Grabovski would have taken that cap space to sign Clarkson.
For 2012-13, the Leafs would have most likely have made the playoffs but most likely lower seed playoff position, in which the Leafs may have been able to draft one of Wennberg or Lazar.
Of course this year Kessel scored 37 goals again, which would mean without his goals the Leafs would probably end up somewhere around 5th or 6th overall for this year's draft. Maybe even 4th overall.
This is all hypothetical of course, but people should factor in how the Maple Leafs would have fared without Kessel's production should he not have been traded to the Leafs, and the type of lower end replacement the Leafs would have used for the top line.
Kessel trade easily for me. Nothing against Kessel, the guy has done literally everything we could've asked him to do and more.
The way I see it, the value of Kessel and Seguin is about equal. Kessel is obviously more proven, though Seguin is younger, a centre, and just put up 84 points. I'd say their value is pretty similar.
So i'm left with do I want Hamilton on the team (and jared knight I guess) or do I want to get rid of Clarksons contract. I'd rather have Hamilton.
The way I see it, the value of Kessel and Seguin is about equal. Kessel is obviously more proven, though Seguin is younger, a centre, and just put up 84 points. I'd say their value is pretty similar.
So i'm left with do I want Hamilton on the team (and jared knight I guess) or do I want to get rid of Clarksons contract. I'd rather have Hamilton.
Diatomic
Mitch Matthewlander
assume Kessel = Seguin (which is arguable at best)
you're basically saying no to a 20 year old RHD top pair dman because you'd rather they not have overpaid for a 3rd liner.
so you'd rather not have the 3rd liner at the expense of a 20 year old top pair dman
is that what the majority hear are saying? I'm starting to understand why Burke was so popular now.
that's kind of like saying you'd be okay with trading Reilly with Clarkson in order to move that contract. that's essentially the same thing.
you're basically saying no to a 20 year old RHD top pair dman because you'd rather they not have overpaid for a 3rd liner.
so you'd rather not have the 3rd liner at the expense of a 20 year old top pair dman
is that what the majority hear are saying? I'm starting to understand why Burke was so popular now.
that's kind of like saying you'd be okay with trading Reilly with Clarkson in order to move that contract. that's essentially the same thing.
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The Apologist
Apologizing for Leaf garbage since 1979
We're assuming that the two players develop exactly the same way as well right?
We are assuming an awful lot in this thread to re-hate on the Kessel trade.
Well done Op, you've managed to reopen the debate for another ten years
tmlfan98
No More Excuses #MarnerOut
If we're guaranteed Seguin and Hamilton then the Kessel trade. With the rising salary cap, the Clarkson contract actually won't look so bad in a couple of years
WestCoastLeafs
I beleaf
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