Post-Game Talk: Knights def. Canucks - 6-3 (Hughes x2, Hoglander) | I’m blind, I’m deaf, I wanna be a ref!

[DarrenX]

In fact, while I don't expect it will happen it would be a surprise but not a shock if the Knights hosted the Canucks to start the playoffs.

It is very unlikely that Game 1 will not be in Vancouver. The Knights are 8 pts back with only 7 games left to play. The wheels would have to completely fall off for the Canucks.
The Oilers however, do have a legit shot of catching us.

 

[theguardianII]

It is very unlikely that Game 1 will not be in Vancouver. The Knights are 8 pts back with only 7 games left to play. The wheels would have to completely fall off for the Canucks.
The Oilers however, do have a legit shot of catching us.

Tomorrow's game vs Arizona is for first place in the division if they lose, win and they could still pull it off.
The schedule is horrid for the Canucks compared to Edmonton's

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Tomorrow's game vs Arizona is for first place in the division if they lose, win and they could still pull it off.
The schedule is horrid for the Canucks compared to Edmonton's

How do you figure? Edmonton plays, Colorado x2, Dallas, San Jose, Vegas, Arizona z2, Calgary and us.

We have, LA, Vegas, Winnipeg, Arizona x2, Calgary and them.

Not only to do they more games left in general but they're playing the top dogs of the west four times whereas we only have three left not counting each other. And Winnipeg's been struggling even more than we have lately.

 

[Diversification]

For the last dozen games or so, our offense has been stifled by rigid north-south play. Too much dump it behind the net, and then back to the points. Need more creativity and layers to our scoring, a bit more opportunism. The team's success this year has been based on solid systems play coupled with steady run support from our offense. Defense alone is not going to do it for us, especially not in the playoffs.

 

[Tact]

Tocchet is very stubborn

Miller - Pettersson - Boeser
Joshua - Blueger - Garland
Hoglander - Suter - Lafferty
Mikheyev - Aman - Podkolzin

Back to the basics for now

 

[kanucks25]

Curious if it was part of the game plan to be so aggressive in the neutral zone in the 1st period or the players just did dumb things on their own.

Ridiculous how many odd-man rushes and rushes with speed and space in general we gave up. Pretty uncharacteristic of a team that has been pretty damn good defensively at even strength virtually all season. Perhaps it was just a blip but doesn't inspire confidence when the team hasn't been playing all that great overall.

If you're going to make an unnecessarily aggressive read you better make damn sure the puck doesn't advance past you otherwise you've taken yourself out of the play and accomplished nothing.

 

[theguardianII]

How do you figure? Edmonton plays, Colorado x2, Dallas, San Jose, Vegas, Arizona z2, Calgary and us.

We have, LA, Vegas, Winnipeg, Arizona x2, Calgary and them.

Not only to do they more games left in general but they're playing the top dogs of the west four times whereas we only have three left not counting each other. And Winnipeg's been struggling even more than we have lately.

Canucks play 3 non playoff teams lately the Canucks haven't been doing great against playoff teams
Edmonton play 4 non playoff teams and the Canucks, that last one could be for the division.

 

[thekernel]

I can't be the only one excited about a potential Vegas matchup after our last two games against them

 

[thecupismine]

One thing about watching fewer games lately (life gets busy) is you get more of an outside view. Not too high, not too low. Couple observations:

Sutherland is the source of all the weirdest reffed game the Canucks have played this season. Its not the reason they've lost any of the games, but its very annoying to watch as a fan.

The lines are all over the place. These kind of changes needed to happen early in the season, not late. I get Tocchet is looking for a spark, but this much change when the team is already out of rhythm isn't helping anyone, especially when some of these guys haven't played together all season. Things should get easier when Lindholm is back, but for now it should just be something like:

Suter-Miller-Boesser
Hoglander-Petterson-Mik
Joshua-Blueger-Garland
Bains-Aman-Lafferty

You can swap one or two pieces around, sure, but going into the blender isn't helping anyone.

At some point the Canucks need to find a 4th forward on the PP who can work there. Kuzmenko wasn't doing much when he was here, but he knew his job on the PP and let the other guys flourish. Since he's left, the PP has gone to shit. Either they need to simplify the system, or really grill that 4th guy on how to fill the holes.

Still have faith they can get out of the slump. No adversity is stress free and fun as a fan, but seeing it for the first time in the playoffs is x10 worse than working through it before the regular season ends.

 

[B-rock]

For the last dozen games or so, our offense has been stifled by rigid north-south play. Too much dump it behind the net, and then back to the points. Need more creativity and layers to our scoring, a bit more opportunism. The team's success this year has been based on solid systems play coupled with steady run support from our offense. Defense alone is not going to do it for us, especially not in the playoffs.

The only guy I see creating any space/opportunities with skill right now is Garland. Everyone else just sends it back to the point. Joshua, hoglander, miller, and podkolzin create space with body checks but often it’s back to the point. Very little cycling down low even.

Happy we’re back to the playoffs after so long but not a lot of faith in the team with their play since allstar break to think they’re going far unfortunately.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Not that it even should have been a major...

 

[bossram]

Team had good pushback 5 on 5 offensively but the neutral zone pinches were braindead (as Ferraro pointed out) and the powerplay continues to disappoint. Saw JTM back on the right side and wanted to hurl.

Once again, I'm just glad they're getting out of these games with no injuries.

This just isn't really true. They had five high-danger chances in the 2nd and 3rd periods, trailing multiple goals. That is abysmal. From score effects alone, you'd expect them to be able generate more.

I've been on this issue all season, but it was papered over with the huge goal totals in the first two months and people ignored it, but this is absolutely true: The team does not generate enough scoring chances.

The reffing was bad here, no doubt, but not why they lost. The game was already over before the major on Z. Desmith was also awful, true as well. But allowing 2-3 golden opportunities in the first minutes is not good.

This is what not shooting 20% looks like. Things can cascade negatively. Tocchet needs to dramatically turn around the offense.

 

[1440]

The refereeing in this game was atrocious. Should have been embellishment on Pietrangelo, and just a 2 for boarding. Both the calls on Zadorov resulted in goals that should not have happened (since Vegas scored >2 minutes into the major) and that was the difference in the game right there. On the other end the refs missed the blatant high stick on miller (linesman called it), as well as another blatant high stick on Garland, Hughes getting up-ended in the neutral game several times, one of which resulted in a Vegas goal, and then they inexplicably called offsetting minors after the retaliation against Podkolzin. Just a shit-show all around.

That said, Vancouver gave up a lot off the rush (partly because Vegas was getting away with a lot of interference in the neutral zone), but mostly because the Canucks were behind by 3 early and needed to pinch to create offense.

DeSmith has been good lately, but had a stinker in this one. 4 soft goals by my count, including 2 that created tap in rebounds, which just isn't good enough. I would have probably pulled him at 4-1 and given Silovs the rest of the game (and then DeSmith tonight), but Tocchet probably wanted to go to Silovs tonight vs Arizona, which is reasonable too.

 

[bossram]

I don't know if it's just a case of teams ramping up their play with the playoffs in sight, but for perhaps one of the few times this season, the Canucks just looked slow out there.

When the Canucks were winning almost every night early in the season, they played fast and were relentless on the forecheck. Now they're giving up their own blueline without much of a fight, and teams are cycling in the offensive days not unlike that bad old days of Boudreau and Green.

I'm looking at the other seven teams joining the Canucks in the first round, and I'm trying to come up with a team they might actually beat. And right now, it's pretty hard to be optimistic.

This game clearly represented some of the issues I identified earlier in the season:

1. Not generating enough offense. They weren't going shoot 20% forever. The team doesn't create enough quality chances, and are still to reliant on a gameplan centered around tips/deflections.

2. The team's effort level was through the roof out-of-the-gate this season. I was worried about the eventual crash playing this high-energy, forecheck heavy style would induce, similar to how Torts teams come out hot every season but can't sustain that level.

 

[bossram]

For the last dozen games or so, our offense has been stifled by rigid north-south play. Too much dump it behind the net, and then back to the points. Need more creativity and layers to our scoring, a bit more opportunism. The team's success this year has been based on solid systems play coupled with steady run support from our offense. Defense alone is not going to do it for us, especially not in the playoffs.

I've said it before many times, the team does not create enough offense. They've been way to reliant on a forecheck-heavy, north-south transition game. In the OZ, they hope for tips/deflections as a main source of offense and they weren't going to keep scoring on 20% of those.

Not enough pre-shot movement, as you said.

I was worried about this at the deadline and wanted another forward addition.

 

[Diversification]

I've said it before many times, the team does not create enough offense. They've been way to reliant on a forecheck-heavy, north-south transition game. In the OZ, they hope for tips/deflections as a main source of offense and they weren't going to keep scoring on 20% of those.

Not enough pre-shot movement, as you said.

I was worried about this at the deadline and wanted another forward addition.

I'm not sure this is a personnel issue so much as a systems issue. Tocchet and the coaching staff have to allow more east-west movement in their system.

 

[1440]

At some point the Canucks need to find a 4th forward on the PP who can work there. Kuzmenko wasn't doing much when he was here, but he knew his job on the PP and let the other guys flourish. Since he's left, the PP has gone to shit. Either they need to simplify the system, or really grill that 4th guy on how to fill the holes.

I don't want to pick on you necessarily, but a lot has been made of the Canucks' PP struggles, and I just don't buy it.

Since March 1 (13 games), they are top 10 in just about every underlying PP offense category on a per minute basis: shots, unblocked shots, shot attempts, high danger chances, XG etc. But they are 19th in goals (7), 20th in shooting percentage (13%), and (most tellingly) 21st in powerplays for with only 1 5-3 opportunity. They are generating chances really well, but the pucks just aren't going in for them and we should expect significant regression on the PP.

As a second point, their PK has been truly excellent in this span (on a per minute basis), conceding the fewest shot attempts against, third fewest shots against, and the second lowest xG against, which just isn't reflected in them having conceded 7, largely on the back of an 0.829 PDO.

The fact that they are even 7-7 in PP vs PK goals for vs against is a wildly unlucky, and that they are still 8-4-1 over these 13 games a very encouraging sign because of the bad lack.

More should be made of the refereeing that they are getting, since they have been dominating offensive zone time and shot attempts most of these games, but have somehow been on the PK more often than the PP and had <59 minutes over these games, the 5th fewest of any team.

 

[bossram]

I'm not sure this is a personnel issue so much as a systems issue. Tocchet and the coaching staff have to allow more east-west movement in their system.

Yes, I said this. Their main style of transition offense is off the forecheck, and once they have possession in the zone, they are mainly trying to funnel point shots for tips/deflections/crease scrambles. That's not an offense that was going to keep having everyone shooting 20%.

It's really too late to meaningfully change their style of play. I hoped a different forward, more of a rush threat, could have been added. I mentioned Duclair as a cheap add in this mold previously.

 

[thecupismine]

I don't want to pick on you necessarily, but a lot has been made of the Canucks' PP struggles, and I just don't buy it.

Since March 1 (13 games), they are top 10 in just about every underlying PP offense category on a per minute basis: shots, unblocked shots, shot attempts, high danger chances, XG etc. But they are 19th in goals (7), 20th in shooting percentage (13%), and (most tellingly) 21st in powerplays for with only 1 5-3 opportunity. They are generating chances really well, but the pucks just aren't going in for them and we should expect significant regression on the PP.

As a second point, their PK has been truly excellent in this span, conceding the fewest shot attempts against, third fewest shots against, and the lowest xG against, which just isn't reflected in them having conceded 7, largely on the back of an 0.829 PDO.

The fact that they are even 7-7 in PP vs PK goals for vs against is a wildly unlucky, and that they are still 8-4-1 over these 13 games a very encouraging sign because of the bad lack.

More should be made of the refereeing that they are getting, since they have been dominating offensive zone time and shot attempts most of these games, but have somehow been on the PK more often than the PP and had <59 minutes over these games, the 5th fewest of any team.

Yeah this is totally fair, like I mentioned I haven't watched as many games as I would've liked. The games I did the powerplay's movement didn't look as good as it did earlier in the season, with some guys standing around not really doing anything. \

I could've easily cherry picked the mediocre games to watch whereas they were unlucky in others.

 

[JT Milker]

Tocchet is very stubborn

Miller - Pettersson - Boeser
Joshua - Blueger - Garland
Hoglander - Suter - Lafferty
Mikheyev - Aman - Podkolzin

Back to the basics for now

This and stick Lindholm on Suter’s wing when he’s back, put Lafferty at 4C instead of Aman. Lotto line gets as many offensive minutes as possible with Hughes Hronek, rest is by committee.

 

[krutovsdonut]

canucks are struggling with line changes and dzone assignments. other teams are having success going right to the net with possession and numbers and losing their checks.

i think tochett needs to adjust to that, stop tinkering, simplify, and let the guys settle down defensively.

 

[Diversification]

It's really too late to meaningfully change their style of play. I hoped a different forward, more of a rush threat, could have been added. I mentioned Duclair as a cheap add in this mold previously.

Is it though? Coaches implement changes even midway through a playoff round if the situation dictates. You can continue to play a strong defensive game while adding wrinkles to your offensive zone play. Certainly the players we have are capable of playing a different way.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Team had zero pop....Were never in the game..Any type of momentum the Canucks got was quickly extinguished by Vegas (after every goal the Canucks scored, they would immediately give up a glaring odd man rush..and we'd be fishing it out of our own net).

The Canucks were neither hungry , or disciplined.

 

[sting101]

Tocchet is very stubborn

Miller - Pettersson - Boeser
Joshua - Blueger - Garland
Hoglander - Suter - Lafferty
Mikheyev - Aman - Podkolzin

Back to the basics for now

that trio of C's is abysmal and will get eaten alive

 

[Tact]

that trio of C's is abysmal and will get eaten alive

I don’t think you noticed but we just lost 6-3.

Obviously Lindholm at 2C helps when he’s back.