Kitchener Rangers 2019-20 Season Thread (Part 2)

[Tim Wallach]

Shoutout to @Tim Wallach , he mentioned a while ago that Langdon has good goal scoring upside if he goes to the net, versus staying on the perimeter...and that's exactly how he scored. I've felt Langdon has been coming on a bit more offensively, more confidence.

Thanks Torgo. Yep, so much of this is about maximizing their strengths and we're seeing so much more of that now. This team will be competitive with anyone if it keeps this up.

Have a good Christmas everyone.

 

[GeoBlue]

On another topic.........not sure about Farwell and team moving their interviews with the coach and players to AFTER their call-ins.

I was wondering about that? I suppose that is why I have found myself turning off the radio before I even get out of my parking spot. Perhaps they will soon find out that people will just tune out right away whereas before, with the important stuff right after the game, they might coax some to stay and listen to the call ins as before.

 

[EvenSteven]

I was wondering about that? I suppose that is why I have found myself turning off the radio before I even get out of my parking spot. Perhaps they will soon find out that people will just tune out right away whereas before, with the important stuff right after the game, they might coax some to stay and listen to the call ins as before.

Maybe the logic is that if they can get more people interested in the post game call in show, more people way want to take part. That would be refreshing instead of listening to the three or four regulars every game with the same old same old to say. For example, little Eddie isn't so little Eddie anymore but he still pretty much parrots everything that Farwell says. We got the people who are more interested in getting on the radio to ask Farwell about the butter tarts they gave him that night and some guys like that Steven character (“Hello my friend”) who wants to discuss his health.

I know I’m nitpicking, but it would be refreshing for a wider variety of callers to take part.

 

[EvenSteven]

On that note......sell or no sell? Only MM knows for sure. I still can't see him emptying what cupboard the Rangers have. MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL............enjoy the holidays.

Buy, sell ....... or both?

We cannot buy hard period. We don’t have the assets.

I don’t think MM sells hard with our play since he stepped behind the bench.

But, would it make sense to do both?

The OA market is saturated we can agree. Therefore, the odds of even getting what we paid for Hawel a few months ago, for our three OA’s, may be a stretch. So I can see MM standing pat in the OA area. I can also see him standing pat in net. Tough to trade this guy if we’re holding onto the OA’s. May as well keep Ingham here unless someone offers us a deal we can’t refuse.

That leaves Damiani. I’d say his value is in the neighbourhood of what Entwhistle went for last year (2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd). Both excellent 200 foot players but Damiani has way more offensive upside. Entwistle had 27pts in 29 games at the time of the trade and never scored over a PPG in the league. Damiani, the other hand, has 35pts in 31 games and scored at a 1.47 PPG clip last year.

Could we trade Damiani for that return and since we are keeping the OA’s and Ingham, buy inexpensive vets as I suggested a day or so ago and be no worse off than if we bought the inexpensive vets and hung onto Damiani?

If we could acquire the veteran help without parting with any second round picks, and then did a Damiani deal, we’d be that much further ahead in building the draft pick bank for a healthy run in 21-22.

That’s before we’d sell off the inexpensive help and Vukojovic after this season.

 

[EvenSteven]

I found it odd last night that the loudest voices behind the griping about three star selections in the league picked who they did from the Rangers as third star.

MacPherson, who I’m a big fan of by the way, was the only Ranger on the ice for all three of the Soo’s quick goals in the third. Ouch!!

It would’ve been a great opportunity to, for a change, give a nod to one of the Rangers who had a decent game and who seldom get a chance to be a star.

For example: Langdon scored and was a +1.

Or to be honest, if they didn’t want to do that, LeGuerrier scored two goals and wasn’t recognized. An all Soo sweep would have been ok with me.

 

[bobber]

This run has been great for the team and in particular the fans. Other than the third period mulligan last night it's been great to see this team play in all three zones. Especially at home. I had the impression the issue was scouting. Now it looks like poor coaching and goaltending were really the issue. It's great that fans go home from games knowing that the effort was there. I like the way the younger players are stepping up there games and the older players are making plays now. This is the system fans have wanted to see for a few years. The team can play more aggressive and still have positive results. Fun to watch for sure.

 

[EvenSteven]

What also can’t be overlooked is the pushback we see every game, and it comes from throughout the roster. Everyone from the rookies, guys like McDonnell, Motew and Fishman (how can you take this kid out of the lineup) to vets like Meireles (notably last night and at Guelph).

It seems they are now actually allowed to push back instead of accepting getting pushed around as we have been the last couple years.

The hockey IS more entertaining as a result. The last couple years, I was content to just check out road games on TV or just check scores on OHL.com because they weren’t “must see” for me like they used to be.

Now I’m getting the itch to get back out and watch them live on the road as well as at home. We went to Guelph last week and have tickets for London on the 28th.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

What also can’t be overlooked is the pushback we see every game, and it comes from throughout the roster. Everyone from the rookies, guys like McDonnell, Motew and Fishman (how can you take this kid out of the lineup) to vets like Meireles (notably last night and at Guelph).

It seems they are now actually allowed to push back instead of accepting getting pushed around as we have been the last couple years.

The hockey IS more entertaining as a result. The last couple years, I was content to just check out road games on TV or just check scores on OHL.com because they weren’t “must see” for me like they used to be.

Now I’m getting the itch to get back out and watch them live on the road as well as st home. We went to Guelph last week and have tickets for London on the 28th.

in regards to Fishman, you simply can not. I wanted to see how Dickerson performed with some more minutes under MM as coach (as he’s been playing the 4th line noticeably more than McKee did) but Fishman has been so impressive since then that I don’t think you can take him out.

I do feel for Dickerson. I think they prematurely signed him when they were in need for guys last year (Valade at U17s, Gordon/McHugh hurt, Tresoor suspended). I don’t think they were expecting Gordon to stay hurt so long, then Tresoor to come back and get hurt for the rest of the season so they just kept Dickerson up here past 10 games and it just isn’t a fit.

Playing for a Jay McKee 4th line wasn’t really ideal for anyone’s development

 

[GeoBlue]

Buy, sell ....... or both?

We cannot buy hard period. We don’t have the assets.

I don’t think MM sells hard with our play since he stepped behind the bench.

But, would it make sense to do both?

The OA market is saturated we can agree. Therefore, the odds of even getting what we paid for Hawel a few months ago, for our three OA’s, may be a stretch. So I can see MM standing pat in the OA area. I can also see him standing pat in net. Tough to trade this guy if we’re holding onto the OA’s. May as well keep Ingham here unless someone offers us a deal we can’t refuse.

That leaves Damiani. I’d say his value is in the neighbourhood of what Entwhistle went for last year (2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd). Both excellent 200 foot players but Damiani has way more offensive upside. Entwistle had 27pts in 29 games at the time of the trade and never scored over a PPG in the league. Damiani, the other hand, has 35pts in 31 games and scored at a 1.47 PPG clip last year.

Could we trade Damiani for that return and since we are keeping the OA’s and Ingham, buy inexpensive vets as I suggested a day or so ago and be no worse off than if we bought the inexpensive vets and hung onto Damiani?

If we could acquire the veteran help without parting with any second round picks, and then did a Damiani deal, we’d be that much further ahead in building the draft pick bank for a healthy run in 21-22.

That’s before we’d sell off the inexpensive help and Vukojovic after this season.

There are so many variables that it makes my head spin. At this point anything can happen. Perhaps a guy like Meireles gets traded for high value if he can get a couple more hat tricks between now and the trade deadline? A few multi goal games my Yantsis and he becomes another potential 50 goal man. What if Ingham goes down long term? As for Damiani, I feel that he can be sooooo much better. I don't think we have seen the best of him yet. I don't feel Hawel has paid off yet but I imagine he will be even a bigger asset in the playoffs due to his experience.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

There are so many variables that it makes my head spin. At this point anything can happen. Perhaps a guy like Meireles gets traded for high value if he can get a couple more hat tricks between now and the trade deadline? A few multi goal games my Yantsis and he becomes another potential 50 goal man. What if Ingham goes down long term? As for Damiani, I feel that he can be sooooo much better. I don't think we have seen the best of him yet. I don't feel Hawel has paid off yet but I imagine he will be even a bigger asset in the playoffs due to his experience.

we have only seen bits and pieces of what all of these guys are capable of. Damiani and Meireles were both in the 100 point conversation going into this year for good reason (Damiani arguably would have had he not missed 10 games and Meireles came 3 short). Hawel is another guy that probably could’ve been in the 100 point conversation. the slump killed it for all of them. they’re all looking around 65-75 points unless the 2nd half of the season treats them much better (as it did last year).

If I’m any other GM in the league right now, I’m all over Damiani, Hawel, Meireles & Yantsis. they’re scoring below expectations and could be gotten for cheaper and have potential to explode. I hope MM doesn’t budge last minute and sell them for lower value than he should get just because he feels he needs to do something at the deadline

 

[bobber]

in regards to Fishman, you simply can not. I wanted to see how Dickerson performed with some more minutes under MM as coach (as he’s been playing the 4th line noticeably more than McKee did) but Fishman has been so impressive since then that I don’t think you can take him out.

I do feel for Dickerson. I think they prematurely signed him when they were in need for guys last year (Valade at U17s, Gordon/McHugh hurt, Tresoor suspended). I don’t think they were expecting Gordon to stay hurt so long, then Tresoor to come back and get hurt for the rest of the season so they just kept Dickerson up here past 10 games and it just isn’t a fit.

Playing for a Jay McKee 4th line wasn’t really ideal for anyone’s development

We loved Fishman in the camp. Small kid but always seemed involved in scoring.

 

[GeoBlue]

in regards to Fishman, you simply can not. I wanted to see how Dickerson performed with some more minutes under MM as coach (as he’s been playing the 4th line noticeably more than McKee did) but Fishman has been so impressive since then that I don’t think you can take him out.

I do feel for Dickerson. I think they prematurely signed him when they were in need for guys last year (Valade at U17s, Gordon/McHugh hurt, Tresoor suspended). I don’t think they were expecting Gordon to stay hurt so long, then Tresoor to come back and get hurt for the rest of the season so they just kept Dickerson up here past 10 games and it just isn’t a fit.

Playing for a Jay McKee 4th line wasn’t really ideal for anyone’s development

I'm liking Serpa as well as he has really been coming on as of late. Now that he has his first goal, he seems to be playing with more hunger.

 

[Fischhaber]

we have only seen bits and pieces of what all of these guys are capable of. Damiani and Meireles were both in the 100 point conversation going into this year for good reason (Damiani arguably would have had he not missed 10 games and Meireles came 3 short). Hawel is another guy that probably could’ve been in the 100 point conversation. the slump killed it for all of them. they’re all looking around 65-75 points unless the 2nd half of the season treats them much better (as it did last year).

If I’m any other GM in the league right now, I’m all over Damiani, Hawel, Meireles & Yantsis. they’re scoring below expectations and could be gotten for cheaper and have potential to explode. I hope MM doesn’t budge last minute and sell them for lower value than he should get just because he feels he needs to do something at the deadline

From the few games I have seen, I don't think that the Rangers should sell. The forward group is tremendous and almost impossible to contain with their size and speed. I don't know how you defend a line with Hawel and Yantsis when they get the puck in deep. The bottom 6 is also very solid and plays with a lot of energy. I especially Pinelli, Valade, and McDonnell.

Where I see a need is on the blueline. There's some major offensive skill with Bergkvist, Vukojevic, and Sebrango, but I also see a lot of defensive mistakes from them that are covered up by Ingham. They get pinned in their own end and give up a lot of scoring chances instead of creating turnovers and opportunities on the rush for the skilled forwards. That happened in the third period last game and there isn't a guy other than Ottavainen (didn't play) who can consistently settle things down and play well defensively.

I think a top pairing addition that can play against the opponent's elite forwards would be huge. Instead of a skilled passer like Vukojevic being pinned in his own end, his vision could open up a lot of opportunities in the offensive end. I remember him killing the Greyhounds as a rookie in the playoffs when he was matched against the bottom 6. That's where guys like he and Sebrango would be most effective.

A hard nosed defender like Jack Duff from Erie or Nico Gross from Oshawa would fit the bill nicely and perhaps not cost a ridiculous amount. Duncan Penman from Mississauga and Holden Wale from the Soo are also very stout defenders. You put one of them and Ottavainen out against the opposition's best for 25 minutes and I think you'll see the rest of the guys reach another level.

 

[Tim Wallach]

Nice thoughts Fischaber. The only thing I disagree with is the Vuk part. He is by far the best defender on the team and there's no doubt he's who they try to get out against the opponent's big guns.

Also, belated agreement with Even Steven on Friday's 3 stars. I don't care too much about them but I nearly gagged when I heard MacPherson. He has been a stud in several games. Friday was arguably his worst this year. Yes, I know he scored. But he struggled considerably in his end and there's no way you can give him a star and retain any credibility for your choices going forward.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

Nice thoughts Fischaber. The only thing I disagree with is the Vuk part. He is by far the best defender on the team and there's no doubt he's who they try to get out against the opponent's big guns.

Also, belated agreement with Even Steven on Friday's 3 stars. I don't care too much about them but I nearly gagged when I heard MacPherson. He has been a stud in several games. Friday was arguably his worst this year. Yes, I know he scored. But he struggled considerably in his end and there's no way you can give him a star and retain any credibility for your choices going forward.

the 3 stars are almost never based on actual performance, more so point totals or saves made. often times there’s a correlation in having a good game and getting a couple points, but that’s not always the case

 

[OhSheila]

Meireles has really impressed me with his pushback He's not taking any crap from anyone and sticking up for his team mates.

 

[EvenSteven]

Deadline buyers and sellers

Some good discussion regarding the rule change (trading distant picks).

cfaub’s post (page 4, sixth post down) pretty much describes the benefits of us selling.

We could modestly buy right now or stand pat, but selling off this year and next would pay off for the next few years starting in 21-22.

Today, 2nds and 3rds are worth what they’re worth. But once we get past next year, picks can only be traded 4 years out. That means that 2nds and 3rds will be worth more then than they are now. MM may actually be on to that having filled our cupboard with 3rds.

We follow what cfaub spells out, this team could be overflowing with picks by the closing of the 2020 deadline.

After putting a lot of thought into it, I’m in the sell camp 100%.

 

[bobber]

Brock Otten's review: "Additionally, only a handful of teams will likely be in on the Import market, again which is complicated because only imports who have already played an OHL season (like Gross or Jenik) can move".
Brock has Rangers taking Dman Kurtis Henry from Erie in his review. He is spit balling.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

Brock Otten's review: "Additionally, only a handful of teams will likely be in on the Import market, again which is complicated because only imports who have already played an OHL season (like Gross or Jenik) can move".
Brock has Rangers taking Dman Kurtis Henry from Erie in his review. He is spit balling.

Henry seems like a bonafide Rupoli trade. similar player to Xhekaj and will just push him out of the lineup, even though he will be here for 21-22 while Henry would not. unless they plan on going for it next year I hope not to see that happen

 

[EvenSteven]

Henry seems like a bonafide Rupoli trade. similar player to Xhekaj and will just push him out of the lineup, even though he will be here for 21-22 while Henry would not. unless they plan on going for it next year I hope not to see that happen

Brock has the top contenders in our conference, London, Saginaw, and Flint, all making significant additions. Two other teams on par with the Rangers, Windsor and Guelph, he has those two teams making more significant deals than that one deal where the Rangers pick up a bottom pairing D.

I understand all is hypothetical, but if that’s the way this trade deadline goes down, we’ll be lucky to get out of the first round in the playoffs this year.

 

[GeoBlue]

Brock has the top contenders in our conference, London, Saginaw, and Flint, all making significant additions. Two other teams on par with the Rangers, Windsor and Guelph, he has those two teams making more significant deals than that one deal where the Rangers pick up a bottom pairing D.

I understand all is hypothetical, but if that’s the way this trade deadline goes down, we’ll be lucky to get out of the first round in the playoffs this year.

The parity situation in the Western Conference makes it an interesting situation. You have the possibility of the "cash strapped" organizations making moves only with the hopes of going a few rounds deep to make some $$$. And the thinking would be that any team in the West can make it to the league final the way things sit now. And with a little luck.........

I can't remember the last time there were so few points between 1st and last.

 

[EvenSteven]

The parity situation in the Western Conference makes it an interesting situation. You have the possibility of the "cash strapped" organizations making moves only with the hopes of going a few rounds deep to make some $$$. And the thinking would be that any team in the West can make it to the league final the way things sit now. And with a little luck.........

I can't remember the last time there were so few points between 1st and last.

I suspect the moves teams make up to the trade deadline will give us some separation. Teams will buy. Teams will sell.

 

[Fischhaber]

I suspect the moves teams make up to the trade deadline will give us some separation. Teams will buy. Teams will sell.

Even the few games leading up to the deadline will be huge. He's got a team like Flint buying big, but they are a game away from not even being a playoff team. A team like Owen Sound has been written off, but a 4 or 5 game streak could have them leading the conference. Whichever GM has the guts to pull off a few deals could be rewarded in a big way.

 

[GeoBlue]

Even the few games leading up to the deadline will be huge. He's got a team like Flint buying big, but they are a game away from not even being a playoff team. A team like Owen Sound has been written off, but a 4 or 5 game streak could have them leading the conference. Whichever GM has the guts to pull off a few deals could be rewarded in a big way.

Maybe. But I'm a conspiracist who thinks that there are teams like London just waiting for a team like Kitchener to waste their few precious assets only to jump in at the last second and blow their whole round of 2nds, effectively nullifying any moves made by the Rangers and setting them back years in development.

 

[rangersblues]

Maybe. But I'm a conspiracist who thinks that there are teams like London just waiting for a team like Kitchener to waste their few precious assets only to jump in at the last second and blow their whole round of 2nds, effectively nullifying any moves made by the Rangers and setting them back years in development.

I think you're far too paranoid. The trademarks of Hunter teams are they are good defensively and have scoring depth. Right now they have neither imo. Every so often they underachieve. The last year they hosted the Memorial Cup is a prime example. They should have been poised to dominate the league that season after two straight OHL championships. Didn't happen.