News Article: Kings hope to get Marian Gaborik back for playoffs

[gnarls barkley]

Don't know what assets it would take but Loui Eriksson would be a nice add.

Lots of talk that he could be dealt at the deadline.

Has had a nice season

i'd love Eriksson but rumor has it that Boston wants a 1st. If that's not true, I'd do a 2nd+prospect (Gravel/Forbort?) immediately, or whatever the asking price is as long as it's reasonable.

 

[YP44]

i'd love Eriksson but rumor has it that Boston wants a 1st. If that's not true, I'd do a 2nd+prospect (Gravel/Forbort?) immediately, or whatever the asking price is as long as it's reasonable.

I don't get why they would deal him. They themselves are in a playoff spot and are not really "sellers".
I wonder who the kings call up here. Obviously it will not be till Budaj goes down as LA is currently using three roster spots on goalies.
Easy choice is Mersch, however maybe Kempe is given a look for a few games. Just to give him a taste and and idea of what the schedule and training routine is at the NHL level.

 

[kingsfan]

I don't get why they would deal him. They themselves are in a playoff spot and are not really "sellers".
I wonder who the kings call up here. Obviously it will not be till Budaj goes down as LA is currently using three roster spots on goalies.
Easy choice is Mersch, however maybe Kempe is given a look for a few games. Just to give him a taste and and idea of what the schedule and training routine is at the NHL level.

Boston's said they are sticking to the gameplan, which was rebuilding through the draft. The only deviation is if they are exceeding expectations considerably and right now they are in the playoffs, but just barely.

As for what a Loui Eriksson would cost, a 1st plus. The only way that price drops is if the Bruins hold out to long for to much and see the market collapse around them, like NYI had with Vanek a few years ago. We were in the running for Vanek too but the price was to high so we went with Gaborik.

 

[bob77]

pls wait. so this scenario is possible?

1. gabby is ltir'ed until the po.
2. lak finds another x player
3. they both, gabby & x, can play in the po?

Yes. You just can't fake the extent of the injury, or the rehab. If the player comes back prior to playoffs, then you have to readjust your cap back to as if the LTIR never happened. So you want to be sure. For the Matt Greene thing, the icing on the cake was surgery. Also, if a player actually rumbles on that they are ready to play and should be cleared, this could cause a problem if a team uses LTIR. However, that hardly ever happens, and thus, the league does not tend to ever question the progress of the rehab. If the injury is real in the first place, you tend to get all the rehab time you want.

 

[bob77]

basically how Chicago got vermette.
Watch LA will do the same and bring in say Vrbata. Everyone will say what Chicago did was shrewd and meanwhile LA is cheating the system

Thats true. You get more cap space, but you also need to give something of equal or greater value back to Vancouver. It's not like picking up a guy on waivers, putting him on the roster, and then staying under the cap. The really good players to be had by sellers wont be putting any talented expensive players on waivers so a team with cap space can come along and scoop them up for nothing. So, although it all sounds great on the surface, many times it might not amount to anything.

 

[mrkolice]

Yes. You just can't fake the extent of the injury, or the rehab.

if kane & vermette worked, then gabby & x should work as well.

just to illustrate how flexible the science of medicine is.

doctor: you have a nasty cancer. i give you 1 month.

patient: ****.

patient leaves, but at the door he is reminded: you forgot to pay. it's 1000 bucks.

patient: damn, i'm broke. but i can get you 500 bucks in one month.

doctor: ok, i give you 2 months.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Yes. You just can't fake the extent of the injury, or the rehab. If the player comes back prior to playoffs, then you have to readjust your cap back to as if the LTIR never happened. So you want to be sure. For the Matt Greene thing, the icing on the cake was surgery. Also, if a player actually rumbles on that they are ready to play and should be cleared, this could cause a problem if a team uses LTIR. However, that hardly ever happens, and thus, the league does not tend to ever question the progress of the rehab. If the injury is real in the first place, you tend to get all the rehab time you want.

Actually no. A team cannot make a move that would put them over the cap. So let's say they made a move to acquire someone using this. Then with 5 games left Gaborik was cleared. The league actually wouldn't approve the Kings trying to get Gaborik back on the roster, even if healthy. Since that move would put them over the cap. They would force the Kings to keep him on LTIR for the rest of the year.

 

[kurt]

LTIR does not save cap space. It does not bank when LTIR is used. So basically if the Kings use Gaboriks LTIR money to acquire someone it means that Gaborik is done until at very least the playoffs start.

Yeah but it sounds like that's the plan anyway.

They can take on rentals to occupy the LTIR cap space Gaborik vacates, no? I'm sure extra assets for the 25 games he misses + playoffs is more helpful than being sure they have space available for him to return with <5 games left in the regular season.

 

[kingsfan]

Actually no. A team cannot make a move that would put them over the cap. So let's say they made a move to acquire someone using this. Then with 5 games left Gaborik was cleared. The league actually wouldn't approve the Kings trying to get Gaborik back on the roster, even if healthy. Since that move would put them over the cap. They would force the Kings to keep him on LTIR for the rest of the year.

Wouldn't they force the Kings to become cap compliant instead by any means possible, including forcing the team to waive someone?

 

[bob77]

Wouldn't they force the Kings to become cap compliant instead by any means possible, including forcing the team to waive someone?

That would be my understanding.

 

[bob77]

Actually no. A team cannot make a move that would put them over the cap. So let's say they made a move to acquire someone using this. Then with 5 games left Gaborik was cleared. The league actually wouldn't approve the Kings trying to get Gaborik back on the roster, even if healthy. Since that move would put them over the cap. They would force the Kings to keep him on LTIR for the rest of the year.

The Kings would remain cap compliant because he would never be officially cleared. Again the league doesn't ever seem to challenge recovery.

 

[kurt]

The Kings would remain cap compliant because he would never be officially cleared. Again the league doesn't ever seem to challenge recovery.

Yeah I agree - I can't think of a time the league has ever questioned whether a player is actually healthy enough to return or not. Seems like there would be some big liability issues if they did try to pressure a team to return a player to the lineup for reasons of suspected cap circumvention, then the player goes and further injures their self.

 

[kingsfan]

Yeah I agree - I can't think of a time the league has ever questioned whether a player is actually healthy enough to return or not. Seems like there would be some big liability issues if they did try to pressure a team to return a player to the lineup for reasons of suspected cap circumvention, then the player goes and further injures their self.

I suspect that all teams medical reports are also filed with the league, especially in the wake of all the concussion related issues that leagues are now being sued over. Not being aware of the medical conditions of players seems like it wouldn't fly legally, so I'd imagine the league is aware of a players health or not.

That said, so is the player aware and I can't imagine to many players saying 'Yeah, I'll sit out an extra (insert number of games here) to help you guys out cap wise, no problem.' Maybe for a game or two but that'd be about it.

Additionally, the insurance companies that are paying if a guy is hurt certainly would want to know the players medical situation and wouldn't be paying more than they have too, meaning the team is then on the hook in terms of real dollars for a healthy player to be sitting around being 'fake' injured. That may be ok with Toronto where there is a boatload of money available but for most of the 30 teams they want a player playing ASAP. Look at what Columbus did with the Horton/Clarkson trade, all so they could have an asset that was playing rather than have Horton sitting around doing nothing.

 

[Model62]

He won't retire with that much money due.

He'll LTIR for the duration.

... and wind up with a job in the Slovak National Team Front Office.

 

[kurt]

I suspect that all teams medical reports are also filed with the league, especially in the wake of all the concussion related issues that leagues are now being sued over. Not being aware of the medical conditions of players seems like it wouldn't fly legally, so I'd imagine the league is aware of a players health or not.

That said, so is the player aware and I can't imagine to many players saying 'Yeah, I'll sit out an extra (insert number of games here) to help you guys out cap wise, no problem.' Maybe for a game or two but that'd be about it.

Additionally, the insurance companies that are paying if a guy is hurt certainly would want to know the players medical situation and wouldn't be paying more than they have too, meaning the team is then on the hook in terms of real dollars for a healthy player to be sitting around being 'fake' injured. That may be ok with Toronto where there is a boatload of money available but for most of the 30 teams they want a player playing ASAP. Look at what Columbus did with the Horton/Clarkson trade, all so they could have an asset that was playing rather than have Horton sitting around doing nothing.

"Take your time, we don't want you to rush it."

 

[YP44]

Wouldn't they force the Kings to become cap compliant instead by any means possible, including forcing the team to waive someone?

have to waive a lot of people at $950K per to make up gaborik's deal (assuming LA adds a like value contract)

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Wouldn't they force the Kings to become cap compliant instead by any means possible, including forcing the team to waive someone?

It's in the CBA that a team cannot make a move that would put them over the cap. So the Kings would not be allowed to remove him from LTIR.

This has happened in the past where healthy players were left on LTIR for cap reasons. Its dumb but this is the way it is set up. The league cannot force teams to make a move. They can however stop a move from happening. So that's how they maintain the cap is by banning any move that would put the team over the cap.

Of course as you said I am sure the league is aware of injury situation. So the league would likely stop any move the Kings were to make if the medical staff were to give a timeline for recovery that put him back well before the end of the season. But if the initial timeline has Gaborik out till playoffs that is the only way the league could keep Kings cap complaint (stopping Gaborik from coming back from LTIR) if Kings acquire a big money player.

 

[kingsfan]

have to waive a lot of people at $950K per to make up gaborik's deal (assuming LA adds a like value contract)

Or just waive Gaborik.

It's in the CBA that a team cannot make a move that would put them over the cap. So the Kings would not be allowed to remove him from LTIR.

This has happened in the past where healthy players were left on LTIR for cap reasons. Its dumb but this is the way it is set up. The league cannot force teams to make a move. They can however stop a move from happening. So that's how they maintain the cap is by banning any move that would put the team over the cap.

Of course as you said I am sure the league is aware of injury situation. So the league would likely stop any move the Kings were to make if the medical staff were to give a timeline for recovery that put him back well before the end of the season. But if the initial timeline has Gaborik out till playoffs that is the only way the league could keep Kings cap complaint (stopping Gaborik from coming back from LTIR) if Kings acquire a big money player.

The league can't force a team to make a move agreed, but I'd assume that this very scenario was discussed prior to the most recent CBA since we know cap circumvention was a main topic of discussion. It seems like a pretty easy way to get around the cap for a team at the cap limit to place a guy on LTIR if he's eligible and then turn around and spend his cap amount on a better player if they never have to worry about having the injured player ever come back onto the cap.

Additionally, removing Gaborik from LTIR wouldn't actually put the Kings over the cap. The cap is done on a daily basis as you know, so as long as he was activated and immediately waived -or another corresponding move was made to clear the salary space- they wouldn't be over the cap as long as they could afford that one day of Gabby's salary under their cap, which they should be able to do no matter what since they have the ability to make moves ahead of his activation to clear said cap space.

I'd wager that if Gabby was able to return early March the Kings couldn't just leave him in the press box for a month, assuming he was willing.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Or just waive Gaborik.



The league can't force a team to make a move agreed, but I'd assume that this very scenario was discussed prior to the most recent CBA since we know cap circumvention was a main topic of discussion. It seems like a pretty easy way to get around the cap for a team at the cap limit to place a guy on LTIR if he's eligible and then turn around and spend his cap amount on a better player if they never have to worry about having the injured player ever come back onto the cap.

Additionally, removing Gaborik from LTIR wouldn't actually put the Kings over the cap. The cap is done on a daily basis as you know, so as long as he was activated and immediately waived -or another corresponding move was made to clear the salary space- they wouldn't be over the cap as long as they could afford that one day of Gabby's salary under their cap, which they should be able to do no matter what since they have the ability to make moves ahead of his activation to clear said cap space.

I'd wager that if Gabby was able to return early March the Kings couldn't just leave him in the press box for a month, assuming he was willing.

This is why like I said the league would block any move providing that the medical reports state he will be back before the end of the season. They tend to be real good about projections like that. It's rare that an estimate is going to be more than a week or two off. So if Gabby is going to be back in early March I consider it likely the league simply vetos any trade that would not allow him to come back this season.

Remember that waiving does not get rid of the cap hit. As you said you need 24 hours to clear waivers. Then you would only clear 925K if re-assigned to AHL. Like I said the league will ensure that this situation never happens in the first place and if it does it will be very temporary a healthy player will be on LTIR.

There is just no stipulations in the CBA about how the league would deal with this. Since their way of dealing with it is to prevent the situation from arising in the first place (ie stopping the move).

 

[kingsfan]

This is why like I said the league would block any move providing that the medical reports state he will be back before the end of the season. They tend to be real good about projections like that. It's rare that an estimate is going to be more than a week or two off. So if Gabby is going to be back in early March I consider it likely the league simply vetos any trade that would not allow him to come back this season.

Remember that waiving does not get rid of the cap hit. As you said you need 24 hours to clear waivers. Then you would only clear 925K if re-assigned to AHL. Like I said the league will ensure that this situation never happens in the first place and if it does it will be very temporary a healthy player will be on LTIR.

There is just no stipulations in the CBA about how the league would deal with this. Since their way of dealing with it is to prevent the situation from arising in the first place (ie stopping the move).

So if we take Carey Price as an example, he's been several times reported in the media as being 3-4 weeks away. Now obvious the media isn't a medical report but if we assumed the medical report also said he was 3-4 weeks away, the league would actively prevent Montreal from doing a deal to go over the cap by Price's cap hit?

I'm not sold on that. Seems like that's something the league would want in writing somewhere.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

So if we take Carey Price as an example, he's been several times reported in the media as being 3-4 weeks away. Now obvious the media isn't a medical report but if we assumed the medical report also said he was 3-4 weeks away, the league would actively prevent Montreal from doing a deal to go over the cap by Price's cap hit?

I'm not sold on that. Seems like that's something the league would want in writing somewhere.

Hard to say. And as I said players have been caught on LTIR before for cap reasons with no option to remove them.

 

[kingskring]

David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod 3s3 seconds ago
Lombardi said goal is to have Gaborik back before playoffs, but no guarantees how quickly he gets healthy.

 

[Reclamation Project]

What a hard-hitting Tweet.

 

[Kingsfan1]

Called it in another thread, knew it. ****! Gaborik will not return. The Kings brass is to quiet.

 

[Reclamation Project]

You've called a lot of things over the last 48 hours. My favorite is that this team is going nowhere.