What I see here is a moving target. At first it was that franchises use "public money." Then it changed to "facilitation" when the flow of taxpayer cash to sports organizations could not be effectively linked. The statement I had made that he took exception to was that I wasn't comfortable with club operations being funded by state money (I say income tax as an example). One can argue that the government "facilitates" businesses all the time with a host of different methods depending almost entirely on how one defines the word facilitates, but the original point that he took exception to was my dislike for the idea of the government funding a sports team. I will note this is different from my understanding of Russian KHL teams, which are funded by big businesses with ties to the government, this is the explicit funding of the operational element of clubs with state money.
KHL Expansion Part VII
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Actually you are wrong. It has actually shown that a stadium doesnt bring in much business to the city nor develops the city that much. That my friend is lobbying and propaganda. Sometimes it makes it worse since the city might have to cut other corners, plus non of those jobs are full time steady jobs. And actually local businesses around stadiums quite often suffer cause of it. That is because for one teams, even with prefectly good stadiums demand better nad by far much more exuberant stadiums (unnecessary bling that coasts huge money) on the tax payers dimes (or they will move away to another town), get it for free AND run it like it was their own, meaning anything that is sold, rented or brings in any kind of money (stadium naming rights) goes to the team. At same time water, electric and heating, along with maintenance and other expenses are covered by the city. Usually the contract between the city and the team is so bad and in favor of the team its ludicrous. Oh and they dont pay taxes ofc
. While being successful businesses. Oh and haveing billioner owners who in the end only get richer. There is a really nice investigative piece done about it by John Oliver. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcwJt4bcnXsSo you can call it what you want but it definitively isnt "run it and fund it yourself business". It ends up pretty much being the same deal as in Europe teams getting money from city or government, just more transparent. Only its more like we (rich guys) ll take the cream n you tax payers get the bill. Only real exception to the rules are the NY Yankees who built their stadium with their own money (on city land but still) and run it them selves. And as u noticed its not only NFL.
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I watched the Oliver piece when it came out. Newsflash, John Oliver is left wing political comedy/satire figure. He is known for quoting extremely selective studies and using data that hasn't been peer reviewed. You can go to the comments sections of most of his videos and you will find increasingly people are not taking a paid comedian's word as the ultimate standard of truth...sounds like common sense...Actually you are wrong. It has actually shown that a stadium doesnt bring in much business to the city nor develops the city that much. That my friend is lobbying and propaganda. Sometimes it makes it worse since the city might have to cut other corners, plus non of those jobs are full time steady jobs. And actually local businesses around stadiums quite often suffer cause of it. That is because for one teams, even with prefectly good stadiums demand better nad by far much more exuberant stadiums (unnecessary bling that coasts huge money) on the tax payers dimes (or they will move away to another town), get it for free AND run it like it was their own, meaning anything that is sold, rented or brings in any kind of money (stadium naming rights) goes to the team. At same time water, electric and heating, along with maintenance and other expenses are covered by the city. Usually the contract between the city and the team is so bad and in favor of the team its ludicrous. Oh and they dont pay taxes ofc
So you can call it what you want but it definitively isnt "run it and fund it yourself business". It ends up pretty much being the same deal as in Europe teams getting money from city or government, just more transparent. Only its more like we (rich guys) ll take the cream n you tax payers get the bill. Only real exception to the rules are the NY Yankees who built their stadium with their own money (on city land but still) and run it them selves. And as u noticed its not only NFL.
Second, I am not sure if you're able to read...I already mentioned complete Tax breaks. You know who else gets complete tax breaks? Many large corporations in the real world and any businesses who follow the (previously referenced) standards and qualifications to be listed as "non-profit." The government must do this to stay competitive with foreign countries, as the US has the highest corporate tax rate in the world. For example, Google relocated HQ and taxation status to Ireland because their corporate tax rate is 6% and ours is anywhere from 25-30%. That's why, as I mentioned above, cities offer businesses tax breaks, often complete tax breaks like the example I mentioned above in the semiconductor industry. Please read what you're replying before you reply.
I specified that I thought it was improper for the government to fund club operations. This includes player salaries, coaching salaries, staff salaries, cheerleader salaries, marketing fees, etc. You never addressed this, you keep talking about facility costs and creation. This is not government funding, unless you are one of those of the mind that those rich people in tech, entertainment, and oil are stealing our money by making the government fund them, and what you mean by that is them paying as many taxes as more than half of the American population...
The reason clubs have the ability to negotiate for new stadiums is because there is...gasp...competition! Similar to countries outsourcing due to lower production costs in other countries, building shops because of lower or non-existent costs in other countries, NFL teams are businesses and many cities believe it or not are competing (yes, competing) for them. If I created Joe Schmoe's donuts and threatened your municipality, build me a new donut shop or I'm taking my business to (other place in America), do you think they would flinch? As unattractive as it sounds to you, the ignorant citizen with nothing but a random John Oliver quoted study to say that NFL teams do not bring business to cities, these cities are fighting to have an NFL team in the region. These cities have business analysts, these cities have statistics and information, and they're fighting to build massive stadiums for NFL teams. That, buddy, is competition, and that is capitalism.
Furthermore, the city provides electricity and utilities to the teams, amazingly...just like any landlord provides any tenant (gasps). In case you didn't know, these teams pay rent to use the stadiums. You can whine about the rent, but you cannot say that the rent is not agreed upon. This is a normal landlord-tenant relationship similar to if any business rented land from the city or from any landlord with capital.
Please, I know a write a lot, but if you're going to reply, please take time to read it all. I really don't like reiterating a lot of my points just because someone wasn't reading carefully (if at all past the first sentence).
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vorky
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http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/hockey/internationellt/khl/article22768881.ab
"It is impossible for Crowns to join the KHL, unless the Swedish Ice Hockey Federation change their mind. I don't think they will..." -Rene Fasel
"It is impossible for Crowns to join the KHL, unless the Swedish Ice Hockey Federation change their mind. I don't think they will..." -Rene Fasel
vorky
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It is funny that russian and swedish media have different explanation of the interview. 
I dont say who is right here ... swedish/russian media have their agenda of course, so the same interview looks different in both countries. 
Those are direct quotes from Fasel
vorky
@vorkywh24
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yeah, that is funny because russian media quoted Fasel as well but without I don't think they will...
Next stop is India!!?!??!
http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2016/05/07/la-suede-ecartee-linde-consideree
Is he joking Fetisov?
He doesn't seem to have big hope about crowns either....
http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2016/05/07/la-suede-ecartee-linde-consideree
Is he joking Fetisov?
He doesn't seem to have big hope about crowns either....
hansomreiste
Registered User
The question is, who is on drugs? Fetisov or author of the article?
I can understand China. They soon will have a Winter Olympics, have close ties with Russia politically, are border-neighbours to them, have been investing huge amounts of money in sports and succeeding in basketball doing so (not widely known in EU or USA but Chinese basketball league has grown immensely in recent years, watched by more and more people every year) but India... What?! These guys can't play anything other than cricket. We are not marketing bread or diapers here, it's not like "The more people, the more we earn". It's friggin' hockey. Huh. I have no words.
I would love to see a competitive team, mostly consisting of local players, supported widely by fans. That's for sure. The problem is that won't happen for India. If I knew stadiums would be full, I'd even support a Kenyan or Afghan team - in fact it could be fantastic but no, that is just a dream.
I think this article is just crap. This can't be serious. No way. If anyone is to claim otherwise, I am more than willing to listen to what they have to say.
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Alessandro Seren Rosso
Registered User
So, what do you believe that follows things like these on a professional level, is it possible that we see "Bombay ice-killers" or "Goa mean dogs" as teams in the KHL within a couple of years?
vorky
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Alessandro is right, Fetisov said it. But I dont think that KHL has plans to expand to India. If you follow KHL statements they say that the league wants to expand to "asian new hockey markets" like China, S.Korea, Japan. On the other hand "traditional hockey markets" in KHL terms are Sweden, Germany, Suiss, Czech rep.
I know that KHL wants to expand in Asia, but in China, S.Korea and Japan there are already teams and leagues. It would be "easy" to "steal" teams like Sakhalin and Anyang Halla from the Asian Hockey League, but India? There is of course people who can attend at the games, and I assume that there are companies that can support financially, they are members of IIHF, but do they play any hockey there? At that point, it seems to me like including a team from Iran or Kenya.
I like when people come up with new ideas, and I would love a team each from India, Kenya, Iran (and the Crowns) to be included in the KHL, but I don't know if any of them are realistic.
According to the Swedish newspaper Expressen, a second Chinese team are negotiating with KHL regarding affiliation, see here:
http://bloggar.expressen.se/ek/2016/05/khl-vill-ha-tva-lag-i-kina/
http://bloggar.expressen.se/ek/2016/05/khl-vill-ha-tva-lag-i-kina/
Under the right circumstances I would welcome a swedish KHL team. If you can pay for it like by giving Sweden free oil, the brunette in T.A.T.U and like half finland you can in turn have all of Malmö if you want. No swedes wants that ****hole anyways. Annd Ängelholm. You can have Ängelholm to.
Deal?
Deal?
Oohh, I like I like. This would really help the rise of Chinese hockey to be expedited. Being able to naturalize from 2 pools of players, very helpful.
I am excited about the expansion to China though, wonder what would be the hometown of this second team?
According to the article I cited, the financial sponsor to the team is based in Beijing.
Crowns have not given up! They aim to play in another country, probably Norway or Denmark
http://www.expressen.se/kvallsposten/sport/crowns-nya-plan-for-att-ta-sig-in-i-khl-i-host/
http://www.expressen.se/kvallsposten/sport/crowns-nya-plan-for-att-ta-sig-in-i-khl-i-host/
I can see the Danes or Norwegians be super hyped to cheer for a team called Crowns.
Kalmarunionen Crowns
hansomreiste
Registered User
They look like a desperate lover, trying to do everything he can to impress the girl. Day by day, it goes from funny to pathetic.
And... What about Kunlun? Should we wait till WC is over for some news?
Forget Denmark or Norway, let's go for Luxembourg!
Yes, Crowns want to join the KHL through Luxembourg. Most likely not by playing there, but being registered there and play in Sweden
http://www.expressen.se/sport/hockey/khl/sa-ska-crowns-in-i-khl--via-luxemburg/
Yes, Crowns want to join the KHL through Luxembourg. Most likely not by playing there, but being registered there and play in Sweden
http://www.expressen.se/sport/hockey/khl/sa-ska-crowns-in-i-khl--via-luxemburg/
vorky
@vorkywh24
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That all can end in courts Of course if swedish association is ready to fight until "last soldier" Imagine Crowns won the court case, it would help KHL with expansion (meaning you dont need a green light from federation you play in). If Crowns lost the case, it would be a disaster for KHL euro expansion.
Of course if swedish association is ready to fight until "last soldier" Imagine Crowns won the court case, it would help KHL with expansion (meaning you dont need a green light from federation you play in). If Crowns lost the case, it would be a disaster for KHL euro expansion.- Status
