KHL Expansion Part VII

[hansomreiste]

The new Krilia Sovetov entry in the MHL has a major sponsor and they look very serious about having a team in the KHL in 3 years. I wonder if this team will merge with Vityaz. I'm not an anti-Vityaz guy, but I really don't know what keeps them afloat. Their arena is mostly empty, and I have never seen any sponsor's on their jerseys. A merger with Krilia Sovetov would probably make the most sense for the league and for the health of all the teams in the Moscow area.

As long as the team is based in Samara, I would be totally supportive of this merger. In fact, it would be very cool to take Vityaz out of picture and bring in a team with potential. Feels like double kill.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Nope. A state is not government. Different set up in Europe.

For example:

"On 11 June 2010 Juventus acquired a 50-year leasehold on the 270,860 m² Continassa area from the Turin city council for €1 million"

Juventus leases the terrain of their stadium for €20,000 a year...
If this isn't a government facilitation...

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

As long as the team is based in Samara

Krilya Sovetov Samara is a football club which has nothing to do with the hockey one.

 

[hansomreiste]

Krilya Sovetov Samara is a football club which has nothing to do with the hockey one.

Huh, my bad. Though I hope they will not be based in somewhere near Moscow, because that's getting annoying. Aside from Dynamo, no team from Moscow can regularly fill their arena. Even CSKA needed Gagarin Cup finals for a sell-out and we are not talking about a huge dome, it's just a tiny 5k-seater place they play in.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Huh, my bad. Though I hope they will not be based in somewhere near Moscow, because that's getting annoying. Aside from Dynamo, no team from Moscow can regularly fill their arena. Even CSKA needed Gagarin Cup finals for a sell-out and we are not talking about a huge dome, it's just a tiny 5k-seater place they play in.

Of course they'd play in Moscow. I don't really think we need 4 team in Moscow+Podmoskovie team in Podolsk. A recent poll on allhockey.ru stated the same btw

 

[Garl]

The new Krilia Sovetov entry in the MHL has a major sponsor and they look very serious about having a team in the KHL in 3 years. I wonder if this team will merge with Vityaz. I'm not an anti-Vityaz guy, but I really don't know what keeps them afloat. Their arena is mostly empty, and I have never seen any sponsor's on their jerseys. A merger with Krilia Sovetov would probably make the most sense for the league and for the health of all the teams in the Moscow area.

Vityaz is not just a hockey team. It is also a soccer team and an MMA/Boxing club. They have a lot of famous fighters under their banners including Alexander Povetkin, Denis Lebedev, Blagoi Ivanov etc

Merging of KS and Vityaz doesn't make sense.

As for empty arena, big reason for that is the schedule, majority of male population of Podols and Chekhov works in Moscow, so when the game starts they are still stuck in the traffic jams or are trying to get home by train.

 

[Jussi]

For example:

"On 11 June 2010 Juventus acquired a 50-year leasehold on the 270,860 m² Continassa area from the Turin city council for €1 million"

Juventus leases the terrain of their stadium for €20,000 a year...
If this isn't a government facilitation...

It's not. City. Government. Two completely different things. Also, it's football, the big clubs can do what ever they want in Europe. None of that thing going on in hockey.

 

[Garl]

It's not. City. Government. Two completely different things. Also, it's football, the big clubs can do what ever they want in Europe. None of that thing going on in hockey.

Majority of KHL teams are sponsored by municipalities in Russia.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

City. Government. Two completely different things.

Different. Ok. "Completely" different? Come on. The underlying and undeniable fact is that it's still "public" money, no matter how you want to label it.

 

[Jussi]

Majority of KHL teams are sponsored by municipalities in Russia.

That is well known, but we were talkign about the rest of Europe. There's no regional governments sponsoring hockey clubs here.

 

[Jussi]

Different. Ok. "Completely" different? Come on. The underlying and undeniable fact is that it's still "public" money, no matter how you want to label it.

As I said, football gets all sorts of concession from cities (Real Madrid and the city buying land from them, Juve deal), but not hockey. That's what my point was. Government/state doesn't support individual clubs in the rest of Europe to the degree Russian state owned companies and regional governments do. It is a different thing.

 

[Exarz]

Crowns deny the rumours about Putin putting an end to their ambitions. "Putin has not been involved in this. Our ambition is still to play in the KHL."
http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/hockey/internationellt/khl/article22726226.ab

 

[kabidjan18]

Different. Ok. "Completely" different? Come on. The underlying and undeniable fact is that it's still "public" money, no matter how you want to label it.

The taxes from which these funds are extruded are totally different. Municipalities may build an arena for a team but they will not fund it's transactions. Russia seems to be normal, I hear people in Belarus pay for Dinamo Minsk and whatever other KHL teams they might have with income tax, that's ridiculous.

 

[Swedish KHL fan]

April 30, and now what?

Nothing in the news, as far as I can see. I assume that of this years applicants, it’s Kunlun in, Crowns, Tallin and London not.

Does KHL consider old applicants at this point? Are teams like Milano drawn out for all future?

What about Atlant, will they return if they “stabilize” ?

 

[Go Donbass]

April 30, and now what?

Nothing in the news, as far as I can see. I assume that of this years applicants, it’s Kunlun in, Crowns, Tallin and London not.

Does KHL consider old applicants at this point? Are teams like Milano drawn out for all future?

What about Atlant, will they return if they “stabilize†?

Was reported awhile back that Atlant wish to return, but it will not be for the 2016/2017 season.

I'm thinking there's got to be some sort of push to get a 30th team for next year, cuz having an odd number of teams is certainly not desirable for scheduling purposes.

 

[vorky]

April 30, and now what?

Nothing in the news, as far as I can see. I assume that of this years applicants, it’s Kunlun in, Crowns, Tallin and London not.

Does KHL consider old applicants at this point? Are teams like Milano drawn out for all future?

What about Atlant, will they return if they “stabilize†?

Now KHL has to consider all aplications if fulfil requirements, check the arena/city infrastructure (airport, hotels). There is Closing Ceremony of KHL season after World Championship, so journalists will be able to ask KHL leadership what club/s have a chance to join. Board of Directors (Правление) is an organ which formally decides/accepts about new teams in the league. A meeting of BoD was schedulled on June 17 last year. Dont know when they plan to hold a meeting this offseason.

 

[Swedish KHL fan]

Was reported awhile back that Atlant wish to return, but it will not be for the 2016/2017 season.

I'm thinking there's got to be some sort of push to get a 30th team for next year, cuz having an odd number of teams is certainly not desirable for scheduling purposes.

Now KHL has to consider all aplications if fulfil requirements, check the arena/city infrastructure (airport, hotels). There is Closing Ceremony of KHL season after World Championship, so journalists will be able to ask KHL leadership what club/s have a chance to join. Board of Directors (Правление) is an organ which formally decides/accepts about new teams in the league. A meeting of BoD was schedulled on June 17 last year. Dont know when they plan to hold a meeting this offseason.

Thanks Go Donbass and vorky.

I remember when Jokerit, Sochi and Lada joined. That year KHL announced on their website April 30 "Welcome Jokerit, Sochi and Lada", but possibly- everything was decided far in advance that year. Maybe the decision path has changed, or it is just too complicated with teams like the Crowns in the ballot.

 

[vorky]

Kunlun formally applied, Crowns did not.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

The taxes from which these funds are extruded are totally different. Municipalities may build an arena for a team but they will not fund it's transactions.

An arena is the very core of a hockey club. If a city/state/country provides a club an arena for free/at discounted price, that's a major, significant facilitation

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

As I said, football gets all sorts of concession from cities (Real Madrid and the city buying land from them, Juve deal), but not hockey. That's what my point was. Government/state doesn't support individual clubs in the rest of Europe to the degree Russian state owned companies and regional governments do. It is a different thing.

I haven't said that it's the same in Russia and in Europe. I only said that it's not true that European clubs do not get any state/city funding, either direct or indirect. Even NHL teams do get it...

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

I hear people in Belarus pay for Dinamo Minsk and whatever other KHL teams they might have with income tax, that's ridiculous.

And what about NFL office as "non-for-profit" organization?

 

[kabidjan18]

And what about NFL office as "non-for-profit" organization?

First of all, the NFL follows some strict guidelines of business practice in order to maintain their "non-profit*" status which is merely exemption from taxes, not a dime is paid to their credit from tax payers.

You really pathetically miss the point with stadium tenants. First of all, stadiums and arenas are built for the people. They're built to accommodate a need the people have, entertainment, as well as to bring business into the area. It's similar to building a playground or a high school football field, but the dividends pay better over time. There is no such thing as a "discount" rate when it is used by a true tenant because unlike a concert where you would pay more one-time use of the arena, these tenants are using it year-round. The fact that they pay a fee for usage as a "non-profit" shows that it's not municipally funded, as high school football stadiums can be larger than Russian football arenas and schools do not pay a dime to use them. You also blatantly ignore the fact that the club is in no way funded by the state. Player salaries, manager salaries, even the cheerleaders, they are in no way funded by either our municipal taxes or even more strange, our income taxes. And finally, when I say Capitals the first thing you think of is Ovechkin, not the stadium. You are sitting back there literally making small and pathetic attempts to push jingoistic ideas. There is an vast and unforgiving difference between a state funded club, and a club that rents a practicing facility from a municipality.

 

[kabidjan18]

I haven't said that it's the same in Russia and in Europe. I only said that it's not true that European clubs do not get any state/city funding, either direct or indirect. Even NHL teams do get it...

Being loaned an arena is not state/city funding. You constantly try to set two vastly different things as equal. The government and the NHL in these situations are business partners. The government builds a building and loans it out to a tenant, in the same way a businessman might build a tower and loan it out to restaurants (ex. Trump Tower). The businessman benefits not only from the rent paid by the tenant but also the extra foot traffic that flows through and into his building. Teams go to the government because the government has the necessary capital, and the business interest of bringing traffic into their district, but in no way is anyone "funding" anyone.

I'm not sure if you work or not, like a real job but the same thing happens in the non-sports world as well. A city not far from my region offered a series of tech companies complete tax exemptions and other financial benefits and incentives to place Fabs (manufacturing plants for semiconductors) in the region. Did the state fund tech businesses? Did the city fund semiconductor R&D? No and No. The city is merely a willing business partner trying in this case to bring the tech industry into the area and all the business and traffic that would create, and it has propelled area cities into the forefront of technology development. In summary no one funded anyone, no one's salaries were paid by taxpayer dollars, merely a business transaction happened to increase the marketability of a region.

 

[Jussi]

I haven't said that it's the same in Russia and in Europe. I only said that it's not true that European clubs do not get any state/city funding, either direct or indirect. Even NHL teams do get it...

As kabidjan18 explained above, you are out to lunch on this subject.

 

[Garl]

As kabidjan18 explained above, you are out to lunch on this subject.

He has a valid point actually. It just depends on how you look at it. You guys are trying to highlight the differencies he's highlighting similarities. Agenda matters.