KHL Expansion Part VII

[Toro2017]

But why would they do that, considering that the German market is more important than the Russian market for the company?

Well they would still have a team in German football league, so one ice hockey team would probably not do that much damage to their marketing in Germany.

 

[Albatros]

RB Leipzig's marketing value in Germany is pretty questionable though, controversial in Leipzig and almost universally hated elsewhere. A move to the KHL would make them highly controversial in hockey as well, create much higher costs, and probably still be of little use for marketing their products in Russia. Purchasing a Russian team and renaming it Red Bull Moscow would make more sense.

 

[Toro2017]

Purchasing a Russian team and renaming it Red Bull Moscow would make more sense.

Well you are right about this one ofcourse, but KHL probably does not need any new team in Moscow area and if they would want to expand to Germany and Austria, it would be relatively easier with Red Bull that without them.

RB Leipzig's marketing value in Germany is pretty questionable though, controversial in Leipzig and almost universally hated elsewhere. A move to the KHL would make them highly controversial in hockey as well, create much higher costs, and probably still be of little use for marketing their products in Russia.

But as Leipzig shows us, they don't seems to do things, because they are "easy" (but because they are hard. hah, hah). They run not one but apparently two F1 teams. They have Football teams atleast in Germany, Austria and USA. They have Ice Hockey teams atleast in Austria and Germany. They have those crash ice events, air plane events and all kind of other things. Didn't they even lift one man almost to space and then let him jump back to earth? They seems to do things, because they have the money to do it. They would probably have money to run even two KHL teams, in Central Europe.

But if we go back to RB Moscow. How about RB buying Vitjaz and move it to St.Petersburg to become rival team for SKA? Army vs. Corporation, Horse vs. Bull, Oil vs. energy drink...

 

[Toro2017]

But if we go back to RB Moscow. How about RB buying Vitjaz and move it to St.Petersburg to become rival team for SKA? Army vs. Corporation, Horse vs. Bull, Oil vs. energy drink...

According to jatkoaika.com, Red Bull wanted to get in finnish Liiga and co-operate with all the teams, in their local markets. They could not make a deal, because those teams have already deals with different breweries. But as we know, Jokerit is for sale at the moment, so should Red Bull become the main sponsor/owner of finnish KHL team? Jokerit have not succeeded to become truely a team for the whole country, so should KHL send Jokerit back to Liiga (or to finnish ice hockey system) and let Red Bull try building team for whole Finland. HC Red Bull Finland. They could play their home games (for example) in three places. Helsinki, Turku and Tampere and set up their hockey operations (for example) in Forssa (about one hour away from all those three places).

 

[powerplaymaker]

According to jatkoaika.com, Red Bull wanted to get in finnish Liiga and co-operate with all the teams, in their local markets. They could not make a deal, because those teams have already deals with different breweries. But as we know, Jokerit is for sale at the moment, so should Red Bull become the main sponsor/owner of finnish KHL team? Jokerit have not succeeded to become truely a team for the whole country, so should KHL send Jokerit back to Liiga (or to finnish ice hockey system) and let Red Bull try building team for whole Finland. HC Red Bull Finland. They could play their home games (for example) in three places. Helsinki, Turku and Tampere and set up their hockey operations (for example) in Forssa (about one hour away from all those three places).

First of all.

Jokerit is not trying to be the team of the whole country. First and foremost Jokerit is from Helsinki. We welcome fans and other people from different towns, but Jokerit is a Helsinki team. Even so according to the brand research Jokerit is Finlands top3 sports brand with Kimi Räikkönen and the national hockey team Leijonat.

Hjallis might sell his part of Jokerit to someone, but that someone will be finnish. My guess is ST1 owner Anttonen with Selänne. Jokerit plays in Hartwall Arena. Hartwall is also a brewery so deal with RB would be tricky. And dont forget that RB is hated among fans (Jokerit fans and other fans).

Why would KHL send Jokerit anywhere since they are heavily investing to Jokerit and Jokerit brings a lot to the table? I wouldn't mind to see Jokerit play in finnish league, but that is out of my hands.

 

[Rcknrollkillnmachine]

Red Bull Finland has a whiff of the Crowns idea; non-starter with Finns.

 

[Toro2017]

And dont forget that RB is hated among fans (Jokerit fans and other fans).

Hated among fans? I don't hate RB and I have never meet anybody here in Finland that would have tell me that he/she would hate RB. I know that in Germany there is some hatred towards RB amongs football fans, but that little bit different scene than finnish ice hockey.

Why would KHL send Jokerit anywhere since they are heavily investing to Jokerit and Jokerit brings a lot to the table?

What does Jokerit bring to the table? losses up 50 million € in four years. mainly negative news, year after another. Clean start might not be such a bad idea.

 

[powerplaymaker]

Hated among fans? I don't hate RB and I have never meet anybody here in Finland that would have tell me that he/she would hate RB. I know that in Germany there is some hatred towards RB amongs football fans, but that little bit different scene than finnish ice hockey.

Jokerit has some (a little) history against RB also. From European Trophy.

What does Jokerit bring to the table? losses up 50 million € in four years. mainly negative news, year after another. Clean start might not be such a bad idea.

This conversation again? Jokerit CEO Jukka Kohonen talked a lot about this in HS: Tappiokausia tahkonneen Jokerien toimitusjohtaja tyrmää pakotepuheet – näkee Venäjälle lähtemisen edelleen mahdollisuuksien kautta

Loses up to 50 million € is what the budget says is OK. Nobody loses that kind of money by accident.

 

[Toro2017]

This conversation again? Jokerit CEO Jukka Kohonen talked a lot about this in HS: Tappiokausia tahkonneen Jokerien toimitusjohtaja tyrmää pakotepuheet – näkee Venäjälle lähtemisen edelleen mahdollisuuksien kautta

Loses up to 50 million € is what the budget says is OK. Nobody loses that kind of money by accident.

So Jokerit will eventually bring bigger tv and sponsor deals to the whole KHL? They (russians) have now spend 50 million € to this and if they go on the same way, it will be up to 100 million € in the next four years. Quite a big deals needs to come in from tv and sponsors to cover those loses. So basicly Jokerit brings only hope of better future, nothing concrete? And if this is the only thing Jokerit "brings to table", is it something that Reb Bull can not deliver (even by them selfs)?

 

[vorky]

I will try to sum up latest expansion news. Of course, nothing is decided.

The KHL executives talked about expansion plans in Vienna. Confirmed a serious talks with French league and Luc Tardiff personally.

There were talks with Vienna Capitals earlier, not now, but the club would fulfil the KHL´s requirements. One Russian journalist is afraid of KHL´s expansion to Germany and Austria soon, with ongoing negotiations with Austrians.

The league does not want the Lev story to repeat. The financing needs to be secured for a longer time.

The KHL will bring the KHL regular games to non-KHL cities, who have a potential to join later. The KHL World Games will continue next year.

The CEO of the EBEL, Christian Feichtinger, was present at the KHL press conference. The EBEL website even published an article from the presser. Funny, because you will never see such a thing at the KHL website (for example the EBEL or the CHL press conference) or in Russian press.

Feichtinger is a member of the CHL Board of Directors. Generally, this Board consists of a funny members - Feichtinger attending the KHL presser, Tripcke attending the KHL All Star Game, Reindl attending the FHR events (btw supporting the KHL idea of a reform of the IIHF schedule ). Reindl substituted Fasel, who, btw. have attended all KHL events for last 10 years Zahner is a mystery right now, but as we know, the KHL Winter Games are played in Zurich. Nobody knows why I do not want to judge, but I can imagine guys from North of Europe are not friends of the KHL, plus Bříza. Zamorsky is from Red Bull, who has a good relationship with the KHL. As said, a funny board.

 

[Albatros]

In Germany conditions for DEB approval would include choosing a city without a DEL club and significant investments in a youth academy there.

 

[vorky]

In Germany conditions for DEB approval would include choosing a city without a DEL club and significant investments in a youth academy there.

I support an idea of significant investments in a youth academy.

 

[Rigafan]

In Germany conditions for DEB approval would include choosing a city without a DEL club and significant investments in a youth academy there.

Hamburg is perfect! Although Berlin, for historial reasons and the fact Eisbaren are great, Hamburg has no team and the perfect arena, and is near the Baltics!

 

[powerplaymaker]

Hamburg is perfect! Although Berlin, for historial reasons and the fact Eisbaren are great, Hamburg has no team and the perfect arena, and is near the Baltics!

Hamburg seems the most obvious place for a KHL team.

Investing heavily in the junior organisation would be highly beneficial for the german hockey.

 

[vorky]

The KHL´s expansion to Europe is a done deal. Only question is where, when and what kind of a team.

Now it is clear the league is interested in clubs from Vienna & Zurich. There are two main goals of these games. To promote the brand of the league there and to test a local market for possible expansion. I would not be suprised if the league doing research on local teams - Capitals & ZSC - and local leagues the EBEL & the NLA as well.

Only publicly mentioned destination is France. There are two options - serious negotiations or a back-up story.

The KHL is not in a hurry, so the expansion does not need to happen next summer, it might take longer.

 

[Go Donbass]

The KHL´s expansion to Europe is a done deal. Only question is where, when and what kind of a team.

Now it is clear the league is interested in clubs from Vienna & Zurich. There are two main goals of these games. To promote the brand of the league there and to test a local market for possible expansion. I would not be suprised if the league doing research on local teams - Capitals & ZSC - and local leagues the EBEL & the NLA as well.

Only publicly mentioned destination is France. There are two options - serious negotiations or a back-up story.

The KHL is not in a hurry, so the expansion does not need to happen next summer, it might take longer.

I may be out to lunch here, as I often am, but I think the France thing is a lot more serious than just a back up story. I see more about France in expansion talks than I do about pretty much any other destination these days. I think too, that there would be a lot less opposition from French hockey authorities to one of their teams making the jump to the K, simply because they would probably see it as a good way to grow the game in France, where hockey is much more of a niche sport than in say Germany or Switzerland. But again, what I know about this stuff wouldn't fill a thimble.

 

[ozo]

The KHL´s expansion to Europe is a done deal. Only question is where, when and what kind of a team.

Surely can't be the only who laughed about this sentence?

 

[vorky]

I may be out to lunch here, as I often am, but I think the France thing is a lot more serious than just a back up story. I see more about France in expansion talks than I do about pretty much any other destination these days. I think too, that there would be a lot less opposition from French hockey authorities to one of their teams making the jump to the K, simply because they would probably see it as a good way to grow the game in France, where hockey is much more of a niche sport than in say Germany or Switzerland. But again, what I know about this stuff wouldn't fill a thimble.

It may look like you described.

How many talks did we witness before Jokerit´s annoucement? Yes, we heard about Espoo all the time.

On the other hand, if they talk to the French Ministry of Sport.... but, they talk to the other countries on the same level too, just do not talk about it publicly.

And the most important thing - why did they start talking about European expansion openly right now?

And since when is Austria considered as a hockey country by the KHL?

 

[Go Donbass]

It may look like you described.

How many talks did we witness before Jokerit´s annoucement? Yes, we heard about Espoo all the time.

On the other hand, if they talk to the French Ministry of Sport.... but, they talk to the other countries on the same level too, just do not talk about it publicly.

And the most important thing - why did they start talking about European expansion openly right now?

And since when is Austria considered as a hockey country by the KHL?

What does the KHL love? What does any league love? $$$$. As long as a team from Austria can bring the league dump trucks filled with caysh money, Austria is a hockey country.

 

[Jussi]

I may be out to lunch here, as I often am, but I think the France thing is a lot more serious than just a back up story. I see more about France in expansion talks than I do about pretty much any other destination these days. I think too, that there would be a lot less opposition from French hockey authorities to one of their teams making the jump to the K, simply because they would probably see it as a good way to grow the game in France, where hockey is much more of a niche sport than in say Germany or Switzerland. But again, what I know about this stuff wouldn't fill a thimble.

I just think that football is too big in France for hockey to stand a chance. Especially in Paris. Evilo might know a bit more about that stuff.

 

[Go Donbass]

I just think that football is too big in France for hockey to stand a chance. Especially in Paris. Evilo might know a bit more about that stuff.

That would be my concern with France. The only place, to my knowledge, with a rink big enough for a KHL team would be in Paris. And it's pretty much guaranteed a hockey team in Paris would be met with a yawns a plenty. They need to attract an established team, but the problem lies, that none of the teams in the French league play in a rink big enough for a KHL team. That being said, maybe if you marketed it right, you could build a fan base in Paris. But you'd have to have a really deep pocketed and patient owner.

 

[vorky]

What does the KHL love? What does any league love? $$$$. As long as a team from Austria can bring the league dump trucks filled with caysh money, Austria is a hockey country.

That is one possible explanation. I can agree with this, more or less.

 

[Rigafan]

What does the KHL love? What does any league love? $$$$. As long as a team from Austria can bring the league dump trucks filled with caysh money, Austria is a hockey country.

Compared to the quality on display at a Austrian Soccer League game, I'd say Austria is a decent hockey country. A league that is stable and going well. Teams that are well established and pay decent salaries for decent imports to go and play in Austria.

If a team was put in Paris that would suck real bad. Obviously the arena size in France is an issue but Paris wouldn't be fun.

 

[Jussi]

That would be my concern with France. The only place, to my knowledge, with a rink big enough for a KHL team would be in Paris. And it's pretty much guaranteed a hockey team in Paris would be met with a yawns a plenty. They need to attract an established team, but the problem lies, that none of the teams in the French league play in a rink big enough for a KHL team. That being said, maybe if you marketed it right, you could build a fan base in Paris. But you'd have to have a really deep pocketed and patient owner.

Well it's a good thing Russian sports club owners are known for their patience.

 

[remben]

I just think that football is too big in France for hockey to stand a chance. Especially in Paris. Evilo might know a bit more about that stuff.

So as I am french, I will try to answer. France is into football first, then we have rugby and handball. Ice hockey in Paris is close to nothing, the best team was français volants Paris with last title in 88-89, they are in low division now. So it would be another Kunlun RS. The only investor I see would be Qatar Sports Investisment, owner of PSG football and handball. First let's have regular games in the world series of KHL and we will see.