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Vicente

Registered User
Jun 6, 2012
1,525
0
Cologne
instead of faking numbers they just could raise the salary cap?!

and why do all people think some teams pay so so much. Where should all these "overpaid" average Russians play then? If the other Russian teams have so little money.... Do you think SKA guys would get 800,000 euro there and would then play for 100,000 euro in Novokuznetsk?!
 
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GX

GX

Registered User
Dec 28, 2011
936
280
Vicente said:
instead of faking numbers they just could raise the salary cap?!
Click to expand...

Raising the salary cap in the KHL would currently be a bad decision. It probably wouldn't show us 'official' numbers that would be any closer to the actual numbers and, in the same time, it would make KHL less competitive, with top few clubs increasing their salary budget, while the rest would stay where they are.

Increasing the minimum salary budget would be a better idea, but still not a desirable one, as that would probably end up with more clubs getting into financial problems and eventually folding.
 

VladNYC*

Guest
So no one is going to answer my question? Just argue about who is more corrupt and who has worse cops? Ok thanks, carry on.
 
obskyr

obskyr

Registered User
Apr 29, 2013
795
1
Karelia
Nonetheless, the arguments "I don't like SKA" and "Russia is corrupted" don't really seem to be convincing enough in this situation. Teams like SKA and Dynamo did spend more money than it is reported in the table simply because they signed NHL stars and there's also a rule of one "NT caliber" player beyond the cap. Other than that, I don't know, it's pretty much in lines with what was happening with the rosters during the last seasons.
 

Atas2000

Registered User
Jan 18, 2011
13,601
3,269
obskyr said:
Nonetheless, the arguments "I don't like SKA" and "Russia is corrupted" don't really seem to be convincing enough in this situation. Teams like SKA and Dynamo did spend more money than it is reported in the table simply because they signed NHL stars and there's also a rule of one "NT caliber" player beyond the cap. Other than that, I don't know, it's pretty much in lines with what was happening with the rosters during the last seasons.
Click to expand...

pretty much this.
 

Atas2000

Registered User
Jan 18, 2011
13,601
3,269
VladNYC said:
These numbers are the team salaries not counting those salaries that don't count towards the cap?
Click to expand...

yes, that means the one contract excluded from the cap as of course the "lockout-salaries" of the NHLers are not included.
 

metmag

Registered User
Mar 4, 2013
184
0
I think this information will change many things. Namely, financiers will start to wonder why exactly they are paying €14+ million when teams with budgets of €4 million are making the play-offs.
 
ozo

ozo

Registered User
Feb 24, 2010
4,355
438
metmag said:
I think this information will change many things. Namely, financiers will start to wonder why exactly they are paying €14+ million when teams with budgets of €4 million are making the play-offs.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm certain GM's knew this info beforehand. Not exact numbers but everyone knew the gulf in discrepancies between team spending power.
 

metmag

Registered User
Mar 4, 2013
184
0
ozo said:
Well, I'm certain GM's knew this info beforehand. Not exact numbers but everyone knew the gulf in discrepancies between team spending power.
Click to expand...

Right, this information has always been available for GM's and other high ranking personnel that might not necessarily care to interpret or act upon that.
With this information released, the average fan can see the wastefulness with the precision that only numbers offer. When your team spends €5million more to achieve the same result on a constant basis frustration and demand to improve turns into pressure and ultimately results in positive things for the club.
Smart general managers like Weissfeld(and now clearly Slovan's) will be increasingly important not only for lower end teams but also very rich ones.
 

Vicente

Registered User
Jun 6, 2012
1,525
0
Cologne
metmag said:
I think this information will change many things. Namely, financiers will start to wonder why exactly they are paying €14+ million when teams with budgets of €4 million are making the play-offs.
Click to expand...

I don't think that this has any meaning at all for the league and this is for one good reason: Slovan Bratislava can use a completely different talent pool currently so they have the best Slovakian players (more or less) under contract while there is much more competition for the Russian talents - and this will not change until the foreigner numbers will increase.

If Russian teams would spend less their players could just go to another Russian based KHL team and play for more money. It's a little more tricky for Slovakian talents (because of the foreigner limit for Russians). For quite a few guys there the only option is Slovan or no KHL at the moment.

The only two teams with a high player budget that missed the playoffs were Donbass Donetsk and Torpedo Nizhni Novgorod and this in a highly competitive Western Conference of 14 teams - two more than in the East - and also not by much. So apparently investing more money into good players is a successful way to reach your goals in KHL.

PS:

To me it also seems highly unfair to say teams like Ak Bars were wasting too much money with no result. They were the second best team of the regular season and won Eastern Conference title. At one point in the competition every team is out but the champions so you can't really say that losing Conference finals against a strong Traktor Chelyabinsk (3-4) is that bad. The same goes for SKA St. Petersburg who won regular season and off course Western Conference and only lost in playoffs after a hard fight (2-4) against a clever, clever Dynamo Moscow. ;)

PPS:

I ask this again. Are the numbers in that player budget table net or gross and how much taxes do you have to pay for this in Russia, Ukraine, Latvia etc. ;) Seems to be an interesting aspect to me. ;)
 
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Atas2000

Registered User
Jan 18, 2011
13,601
3,269
Vicente said:
PPS:

I ask this again. Are the numbers in that player budget table net or gross and how much taxes do you have to pay for this in Russia, Ukraine, Latvia etc. ;) Seems to be an interesting aspect to me. ;)
Click to expand...

I would think the numbers are before taxes of course. Russia has a 13% non-progressive income tax.
 

metmag

Registered User
Mar 4, 2013
184
0
Vicente said:
I don't think that this has any meaning at all for the league and this is for one good reason: Slovan Bratislava can use a completely different talent pool currently so they have the best Slovakian players (more or less) under contract while there is much more competition for the Russian talents - and this will not change until the foreigner numbers will increase.

If Russian teams would spend less their players could just go to another Russian based KHL team and play for more money. It's a little more tricky for Slovakian talents (because of the foreigner limit for Russians). For quite a few guys there the only option is Slovan or no KHL at the moment.

The only two teams with a high player budget that missed the playoffs were Donbass Donetsk and Torpedo Nizhni Novgorod and this in a highly competitive Western Conference of 14 teams - two more than in the East - and also not by much. So apparently investing more money into good players is a successful way to reach your goals in KHL.

PS:

To me it also seems highly unfair to say teams like Ak Bars were wasting too much money with no result. They were the second best team of the regular season and won Eastern Conference title. At one point in the competition every team is out but the champions so you can't really say that losing Conference finals against a strong Traktor Chelyabinsk (3-4) is that bad. The same goes for SKA St. Petersburg who won regular season and off course Western Conference and only lost in playoffs after a hard fight (2-4) against a clever, clever Dynamo Moscow. ;)

PPS:

I ask this again. Are the numbers in that player budget table net or gross and how much taxes do you have to pay for this in Russia, Ukraine, Latvia etc. ;) Seems to be an interesting aspect to me. ;)
Click to expand...

I am well aware of the implications of a foreigner limit on Russian teams. However I disagree that the difference would be that astronomical.

Even so, we can take a look at other examples.
Dynamo Moscow is spending 4-6 Million Euro less than the teams above it and is winning consecutive cups. This has nothing to do with talent pools but good management and coaching.

Severstal is spending less money than Yugra and Neftekhimik in a harder conference as you mentioned and still made the playoffs while the others didnt. Nazarov snatched up quickly by Donbass.

Now what about Dinamo Riga? It spent more than Slovan with no limits(except 5 NT eligible players). It has access to any talent pools it wants. And what does that say about Barys..
 
BalticWarrior

BalticWarrior

Registered User
Apr 28, 2012
6,477
320
Riga
metmag said:
I am well aware of the implications of a foreigner limit on Russian teams. However I disagree that the difference would be that astronomical.

Even so, we can take a look at other examples.
Dynamo Moscow is spending 4-6 Million Euro less than the teams above it and is winning consecutive cups. This has nothing to do with talent pools but good management and coaching.

Severstal is spending less money than Yugra and Neftekhimik in a harder conference as you mentioned and still made the playoffs while the others didnt. Nazarov snatched up quickly by Donbass.

Now what about Dinamo Riga? It spent more than Slovan with no limits(except 5 NT eligible players). It has access to any talent pools it wants. And what does that say about Barys..
Click to expand...

Our managment,owners and GM were a ****ing bad joke last season, good thing atleast Sejejs came back(last season GM of Lev)
 

Spektanto

Registered User
May 31, 2012
294
1
Chelyabinsk
Wages of NHLers played in the KHL during the lockout:
http://www.khl.ru/news/2013/06/19/165393.html

1. CSKA Moscow (Bryzgalov, Datsyuk, Grabovski) - €7,669,148.63
2. Metallurg Magnitogorsk (Gonchar, Malkin, Kulemin) - €5,977,510.12
3. Dynamo Moscow (Ovechkin, Backström, Komarov) - €5,574,315.44
4. SKA St Petersburg (Bobrovski, Kovalchuk, Tarasenko, Letang) - €5,497,630.05
5. Torpedo Nizhny Novgorod (Volchenkov, Semin) - €1,705,440.54
6. Donbass Donetsk (Babchuk, Ponikarovski, Fedotenko) - €1,470,765.77
7. Barys Astana (Antropov, Hedman, McDonagh) - €1,148,383.14
8. Lev Prague (Voráček, Hudler, Chára, Červenka) - €1,142,597.73
9. Lokomotiv Yaroslavl (Varlamov, Anisimov, Kulikov) - €907,614.45
10. Avangard Omsk (Nikitin, S. Kostitsyn) - €859,332.46
11. Dinamo Minsk (Rinne, Kane, Pavelski) - €662,114.12
12. Atlant Mytishi (Khudobin, Tyutin, Stalberg) - €584,016.12
13. Vityaz Chekhov (Markov) - €542,106.50
14. Ak Bars Kazan (Emelin) - €468,714.64
15. Slovan Bratislava (ViÅ¡ňovský, Sekera) - €219,166.21
16. Neftekhimik Nizhnekamsk (Yakupov) - €197,010.75
17. Severstal Cherepovets (Wandell) - €155,215.50
18. Avtomobilist Ekaterinburg (Lupul) - €126,537.58
19. Dinamo Riga (DaugaviņÅ¡) - €95,860.36
TOTAL - €35,003,480.13

Italic - didn't play till the very end (injured or left). Tarasenko's case is unique - he was in fact a player of SKA-1946 (MHL), and therefore could be in the roster above the limit.
 
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Jussi

Jussi

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
91,609
11,157
Mojo Dojo Casa House
Spektanto said:
Wages of NHLers played in the KHL during lockout:
http://www.khl.ru/news/2013/06/19/165393.html

1. CSKA Moscow - €7,669,148.63
2. Metallurg Magnitogorsk - €5,977,510.12
3. Dynamo Moscow - €5,574,315.44
4. SKA St Petersburg - €5,497,630.05
5. Torpedo Nizhny Novgorod - €1,705,440.54
6. Donbass Donetsk - €1,470,765.77
7. Barys Astana - €1,148,383.14
8. Lev Prague - €1,142,597.73
9. Lokomotiv Yaroslavl - €907,614.45
10. Avangard Omsk - €859,332.46
11. Dinamo Minsk - €662,114.12
12. Atlant Mytishi - €584,016.12
13. Vityaz Chekhov - €542,106.50
14. Ak Bars Kazan - €468,714.64
15. Slovan Bratislava - €219,166.21
16. Neftekhimik Nizhnekamsk - €197,010.75
17. Severstal Cherepovets - €155,215.50
18. Avtomobilist Ekaterinburg - €126,537.58
19. Dinamo Riga - €95,860.36
TOTAL - €35,003,480.13
Click to expand...

If one could attach the players the teams had during the lock-out to this, it would be even better looking.
 
Garethw87

Garethw87

Registered User
Jun 27, 2013
7
0
Manchester, England
Also people should remember the way the KHL teams operate regarding their income and expenses. Teams are usually owned by either somebody extremely rich or funded by a business. So you have Mr X who is worth say €2bn and he's currently spending €15/20m on his team each season and making massive losses.. I doubt he really cares so much?

Its obvious that KHL teams don't care about income from fans/sponsors ect or else they'd up their game and they to increase it. Its the same with the VTB Basketball league. CKSA Moscows budget was something stupid like €40m yet their income from ticket, merch ect was about 200k!

They aren't relying on seat numbers and the normal ways to earn money in most other leagues so I don't ever worry about their expenses.
 
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