KHL attendance 2014/2015

[malkinfan]

Yes and no. It all depends on the money you have to pay for the arena and the money you get from ticket sales.

My favourite team for example earns about 250,000 euro (10,000 x 25) per game which makes it around 7,500,000 euro per season. They have to pay a rent of about 2 mio a year which leaves 5,500,000 for the club.

This covers almost all costs involving the pro team while sponsors and merchandise finance the junior teams - just the DNL team costs 500,000 a year - and the training centre and offices - also 500,000 rent a year, the staff etc.

Avto for example makes 72,800 euro (5,600 x 13) per game. Even with no rent at all that only makes annual earnings of little more than 2,1 mio euros.

Of course Russian sports teams dont have to worry about making money because they are paid by government, state companies and oligarchs but if they want a stable league they have to improve in ticket sales.

I would agree with this. Current strategy is not good long term plan. Who knows if something happens to sponsor in 5-10 years they pull out then everyone is scrambling to find new money. So many things can happen in the future. At least if teams can fill there arena and sell things they can make some money back so that if sponsor cuts back money or whatever it will not destroy the club.

I know people were against Medvedev for increasing # of games but it only makes sense. If your paying the players a fixed salary you should get as many games as you can out of the players (each additional game lowers cost of players salary). KHL is not like Euro leagues where there are 10-12 teams, with 28 teams you should be able to handle a heavier schedule. 65 games is very reasonable, I would even suggest 70.

KHL TV needs to beef up and sales from there can be shared with club. IMO TV is where real money can be made - on 1 showing you can make unlimited amount of revenue depending on advertising that is put in. I know some of the VHL streams are even viewed by up to 20k (I think I have seen it this high on YouTube). Of course the platform would have to be more user friendly like NHLs, but huge opportunity here - subscribers and advertising. Games like CSKA vs SKA I don't want to guess but I am sure they could get a pretty big worldwide audience with a little bit of advertising. Anyone have a good guess, 50k viewers?

I think with a 12k arena, increased games, improved advertising/TV, average KHL team can stabilize for the long term. Of course, I do not suggest that teams can operate without sponsorship money. Hoping new commissioner pushes for clubs in this department in next few seasons.

 

[loppa*]

I think with a 12k arena, increased games, improved advertising/TV, average KHL team can stabilize for the long term.

It is expensive to build new arenas. They are doing it, but it takes time and is expensive. :/ Nizni novgorod and novosibirsk really do need bigger arenas...

 

[vorky]

I would agree with this. Current strategy is not good long term plan. Who knows if something happens to sponsor in 5-10 years they pull out then everyone is scrambling to find new money. So many things can happen in the future. At least if teams can fill there arena and sell things they can make some money back so that if sponsor cuts back money or whatever it will not destroy the club.

I know people were against Medvedev for increasing # of games but it only makes sense. If your paying the players a fixed salary you should get as many games as you can out of the players (each additional game lowers cost of players salary). KHL is not like Euro leagues where there are 10-12 teams, with 28 teams you should be able to handle a heavier schedule. 65 games is very reasonable, I would even suggest 70.

KHL TV needs to beef up and sales from there can be shared with club. IMO TV is where real money can be made - on 1 showing you can make unlimited amount of revenue depending on advertising that is put in. I know some of the VHL streams are even viewed by up to 20k (I think I have seen it this high on YouTube). Of course the platform would have to be more user friendly like NHLs, but huge opportunity here - subscribers and advertising. Games like CSKA vs SKA I don't want to guess but I am sure they could get a pretty big worldwide audience with a little bit of advertising. Anyone have a good guess, 50k viewers?

I think with a 12k arena, increased games, improved advertising/TV, average KHL team can stabilize for the long term. Of course, I do not suggest that teams can operate without sponsorship money. Hoping new commissioner pushes for clubs in this department in next few seasons.

I have a feeling that new president will do what you wrote (bold) - better marketing. Ilya Kochevrin, KHL marketing boss, leaving KHL accoriding to russian media. It means that new guy will replace him - more skilled in marketing, I am sure, because Chernyshenko knows this bussiness.

Good news is revenue sharing, which should be adopted soon, I believe.

Edit:
Russians are known for bad marketing, which can be seen in hockey as well. In hockey only Roman Rotenberg tries to make better marketing. He bought russian sport marketing company and want to promote hockey/sport. His job can help other KHL clubs. His SKA wants to share marketing methods with other clubs, teach them, which is good news.

 

[loppa*]

I have a feeling that new president will do what you wrote (bold) - better marketing. Ilya Kochevrin, KHL marketing boss, leaving KHL accoriding to russian media. It means that new guy will replace him - more skilled in marketing, I am sure, because Chernyshenko knows this bussiness.

Good news is revenue sharing, which should be adopted soon, I believe.

Marketing is useless if the team has a 3000 seat arena, like with Yurga's case. I think that it is better to do marketing only in places with big / good arenas.

 

[vorky]

Marketing is useless if the team has a 3000 seat arena, like with Yurga's case. I think that it is better to do marketing only in places with big / good arenas.

of course, therefore KHL needs selection of clubs -- only strong one should stay.

 

[ozo]

How much revenue KHL is actually making, that vorky is putting "sharing of it" in every sentence as it would matter one bit? I got a feeling that the share of a single league member will be receiving won't cover a salary of your average player.

 

[Jussi]

I would agree with this. Current strategy is not good long term plan. Who knows if something happens to sponsor in 5-10 years they pull out then everyone is scrambling to find new money. So many things can happen in the future. At least if teams can fill there arena and sell things they can make some money back so that if sponsor cuts back money or whatever it will not destroy the club.

I know people were against Medvedev for increasing # of games but it only makes sense. If your paying the players a fixed salary you should get as many games as you can out of the players (each additional game lowers cost of players salary). KHL is not like Euro leagues where there are 10-12 teams, with 28 teams you should be able to handle a heavier schedule. 65 games is very reasonable, I would even suggest 70.

KHL TV needs to beef up and sales from there can be shared with club. IMO TV is where real money can be made - on 1 showing you can make unlimited amount of revenue depending on advertising that is put in. I know some of the VHL streams are even viewed by up to 20k (I think I have seen it this high on YouTube). Of course the platform would have to be more user friendly like NHLs, but huge opportunity here - subscribers and advertising. Games like CSKA vs SKA I don't want to guess but I am sure they could get a pretty big worldwide audience with a little bit of advertising. Anyone have a good guess, 50k viewers?

I think with a 12k arena, increased games, improved advertising/TV, average KHL team can stabilize for the long term. Of course, I do not suggest that teams can operate without sponsorship money. Hoping new commissioner pushes for clubs in this department in next few seasons.

It doesn't make sense at all for the European mentality. It's also looking like the number of teams will drop in the KHL within a year or two by as 2-4 teams, reducing the number of teams closer to 20 than 30.

People just don't have the money nor time for the 30 plus home games, in Finland the fans have already voted with their feet when the regular season increased to 60 games. The European sports fans mentality is still heavily based in football where the season is about 38 games, with possible cup games mixed in. Sports/hockey fans just don't have the time for more games.

 

[loppa*]

Maestro, could you post an updated attendance stat thing at the start of the new year?

 

[Vicente]

In Germany we currently have 26 regular season home games (52 total obviously) and it is considered perfect (4 games against all other 13 teams). Any games less would destroy profits for the clubs and any games more in regular season would decrease interest.

The goal for KHL should be to increase the number of people per game, not to have the same number in a few more games (it's better to have 8000 in 30 games than to have 6000 in 34 games).

Why can North Americans allow themselves a 82 game schedule? One of the main reasons is the interest by a large group of people. There is a huge fluctuation of people in the arenas every game. Most people can't afford/have the chance to go to more than 1-3 games a year. It's something really special for them. Every game is seen as big event. Teams like the Maple Leafs would sell out every game if they had 80 home games a year just so everyone would have the chance to see a game.

In Europe mostly the same hardcore fans go to most of the games.

 

[vorky]

A few numbers of last year (January - December 2014)

games played 864
attendance total 5 497 175
attendance avg 6 362

 

[malkinfan]

Why can North Americans allow themselves a 82 game schedule? One of the main reasons is the interest by a large group of people. There is a huge fluctuation of people in the arenas every game. Most people can't afford/have the chance to go to more than 1-3 games a year. It's something really special for them. Every game is seen as big event. Teams like the Maple Leafs would sell out every game if they had 80 home games a year just so everyone would have the chance to see a game.

In Europe mostly the same hardcore fans go to most of the games.

True which is why marketing can improve this. Grow the group of people interested in hockey or find a way to make it affordable to casual fans to see a game, the cities are mostly large enough where this should be possible. I know NHL teams offer different packages so you don't have to buy season tickets (ie 4 game packs at a value) to get people in the seats. More games is also important for TV as more ad revenue, more viewers etc. While there may only be 6k in the arena maybe there are 20k watching at half the price of a ticket, which is still good revenue coming in.

I and some other guys I know here in Canada buy the big games that are not available on Laola. Don't know how many there are across NA doing this but would be interesting to find out. Shows that there is some world wide potential to earn revenue on games other than in the stadium.

 

[Jussi]

True which is why marketing can improve this. Grow the group of people interested in hockey or find a way to make it affordable to casual fans to see a game, the cities are mostly large enough where this should be possible. I know NHL teams offer different packages so you don't have to buy season tickets (ie 4 game packs at a value) to get people in the seats. More games is also important for TV as more ad revenue, more viewers etc. While there may only be 6k in the arena maybe there are 20k watching at half the price of a ticket, which is still good revenue coming in.

I and some other guys I know here in Canada buy the big games that are not available on Laola. Don't know how many there are across NA doing this but would be interesting to find out. Shows that there is some world wide potential to earn revenue on games other than in the stadium.

No, it can't. Europe was hit especially hard by the recession (Finland is still in one) which means people are very cautious about how and how much money they are going to spend with their little spare time. The average Russian has now been hit financially as well by the Russia's economic woes so I think they would be very cautious about spending money to watch 60-70 regular season hockey games.

 

[loppa*]

No, it can't. Europe was hit especially hard by the recession (Finland is still in one) which means people are very cautious about how and how much money they are going to spend with their little spare time. The average Russian has now been hit financially as well by the Russia's economic woes so I think they would be very cautious about spending money to watch 60-70 regular season hockey games.

I guess Europeans aren't going to simply get out their credit cards and balloon their debt like they do in the US?

 

[CPFC]

No, it can't. Europe was hit especially hard by the recession (Finland is still in one) which means people are very cautious about how and how much money they are going to spend with their little spare time.

I disagree. Despite the recession, most people are still working, earning pretty much the same salaries as before and wondering where to spent it. There's actually some evidence (from the US and UK) that, during a recession, theaters, concerts and other forms of entertainment see a rise in attendance figures. People probably have a greater need for enjoyment if times are otherwise perceived as difficult.

Helsinki, for example, is a city with a metropolitan population of over a million. With that kind of a population and a well-situated arena, Jokerit could easily draw in even more spectators than they do now. It's all about marketing and the general image of the product. Make it prestigious enough, and people will come.

 

[Jussi]

I disagree. Despite the recession, most people are still working, earning pretty much the same salaries as before and wondering where to spent it. There's actually some evidence (from the US and UK) that, during a recession, theaters, concerts and other forms of entertainment see a rise in attendance figures. People probably have a greater need for enjoyment if times are otherwise perceived as difficult.

Helsinki, for example, is a city with a metropolitan population of over a million. With that kind of a population and a well-situated arena, Jokerit could easily draw in even more spectators than they do now. It's all about marketing and the general image of the product. Make it prestigious enough, and people will come.

Finland has been hit much harder by the recession and it's not going away this year. Jokerit fans especially have been saying for years how they'd prefer a closer to 50 game regular season. With all the concert bookings at Hartwall, it would make it easier to place games on days that when people can get to games easier.

 

[CPFC]

Finland has been hit much harder by the recession and it's not going away this year. Jokerit fans especially have been saying for years how they'd prefer a closer to 50 game regular season. With all the concert bookings at Hartwall, it would make it easier to place games on days that when people can get to games easier.

That's true and personally I think 30 home matches is enough. Still, I think Jokerit could improve their current attendance levels with better marketing. If they would increase the number of matches, it's of course more difficult, especially regarding the "prestigiousness" of attending a hockey match.

 

[Urbanskog]

That's true and personally I think 30 home matches is enough. Still, I think Jokerit could improve their current attendance levels with better marketing. If they would increase the number of matches, it's of course more difficult, especially regarding the "prestigiousness" of attending a hockey match.

I'd say that this season, Jokerit have been an example of how to market yourself.

 

[malkinfan]

Finland has been hit much harder by the recession and it's not going away this year. Jokerit fans especially have been saying for years how they'd prefer a closer to 50 game regular season. With all the concert bookings at Hartwall, it would make it easier to place games on days that when people can get to games easier.

Marketing has very little to do with income levels. You can get more people interested in hockey without them having to fork out a tonne of money. If people like, even the poor can afford streams to the games, they are very cheap (if not free on Laola). Eventually when economy bounces back you now have fans with money.

 

[Jussi]

Marketing has very little to do with income levels. You can get more people interested in hockey without them having to fork out a tonne of money. If people like, even the poor can afford streams to the games, they are very cheap (if not free on Laola). Eventually when economy bounces back you now have fans with money.

Average sports fan doesn't know anything about streams.

 

[jaco]

Maestro, could you post an updated attendance stat thing at the start of the new year?

Here you are, my fellow hockey fan. Data include yesterday's games. Source, as always, is en.khl.ru

Overall average after 574 games: 6.315 (+4% compared to last year's regular season / 80% of average capacity), which means that 3.624.732 people attended the games until now.

Highest overall: Minsk-Medvescak, Nov. 29, 15.086 (they reached this attendence also against 5 other opponents, but this was the first time)
Lowest overall: Vityaz-Atlant, Dec. 01, 1.500
Highest increase in average attendance: Ak Bars +39% compared to last year's RS (6.699 vs. 4.830)
Highest decrease in average attendance: Medvescak -32% (5.296 vs. 7.828)

Conferences:
West 7.197 (283 games)
East 5.457 (291)

Divisions:
Bobrov 8.884 (147 games)
Tarasov 5.374 (136)
Kharlamov 5.195 (145)
Chernyshev 5.717 (146)


Team ranking according to average attendance:
1. Minsk 14.059 (19 games / 94% of official capacity / +35% compared to last year's RS)
2. SKA 12.070 (21 / 98%* / -1%)
3. Jokerit 10.760 (22 / 80% / +16%**)
4. Slovan 9.029 (23 / 90%*** / -10%)
5. Loko 8.914 (17 / 98% / +3%)
6. Avangard 8.739 (17 / 85% / +9%)
7. Sochi 7.612 (17 / 63% / ---)
8. Magnitka 6.905 (21 / 92% / +14%)
9. Sibir 6.756 (23 / 91% / -3%)
10. Ak Bars 6.699 (20 / 76% / +39%)
11. Salavat Yulaev 6.603 (19 / 83% / -14%)
12. Traktor 6.184 (19 / 82% / -13%)
13. Amur 5.956 (24 / 84% / -15%)
14. Atlant 5.778 (18 / 90% / +6%)
15. Dynamo M 5.641 (21 / 66% / -1%)
16. Admiral 5.489 (19 / 100% / +1%)
17. Riga 5.486 (21 / 53% / -32%)
18. Lada 5.347 (21 / 87% / +64%***)
19. Medvescak 5.296 (23 / 83% / -32%)
20. Torpedo 5.078 (20 / 91% / -3%)
21. Neftekhimik 4.457 (21 / 81% / -5%)
22. Avto 4.281 (23 / 77% / -17%)
23. CSKA 4.250 (20 / 76% / +6%)
24. Barys 3.927 (21 / 97% / -3%)
25. Vityaz 3.703 (19 / 67% / +8%)
26. Severstal 3.389 (22 / 60% / -10%)
27. Kuznya 3.284 (23 / 44% / +4%)
28. Ugra 2.620 (20 / 48% / -7%)


* Total capacity used: 12.300, on en.khl.ru the total capacity reported is 11.439
** Liiga
*** Total capacity used: 10.055, on en.khl.ru the total capacity reported is 10.450
**** VHL

feel free to correct me, if there are any errors

 

[QnebO]

Long road streaks probably help selling tickets. Like a month without home games. Game every frikken tuesday night on the same time gets boring.

I think the real challenge is when team is not very good. Then it takes alot to sell tickets to non-hc fans, but not that its impossible, as the Leafs show

 

[loppa*]

I wonder if Jokerit will finish the season with over 11 000...

 

[jaco]

I wonder if Jokerit will finish the season with over 11 000...

They're at 10.871 after the SKA game (13.317) and have another 7 home games in front of them (Severstal, CSKA, Torpedo, Medvescak and Slovan in January; Atlant and Dynamo Moscow in February). In order to finish over 11.000 they would need an average of 11.424 or more in these 7 games... not impossible, but being already certain of a Playoff spot and considering the opponents, I don't think they will....

 

[Jussi]

I wonder if Jokerit will finish the season with over 11 000...

Jokerit have 9034 today so it will go down.

 

[Finnpin]

Jokerit have 9034 today so it will go down.

Son I'm disappoint. Though they haven't played that well after Spengler...and who is the opponent anyways?