Sportsnet: Kessel confident of Leafs avoiding tailspin

[Mowerman]

I see this being said a lot by both players and fans:



And I don't like it at all. We were getting badly outplayed pretty much all season long, and were managing to scrape out wins against the odds. It wasn't just a "bad stretch," it was the good luck running out for a fairly bad team. We played without the puck, in our own zone, all season long - if anything we were lucky to do decently for as long as we did without collapsing.

The logic in Kessel's quote is basically saying "we don't need to change, we were a good team last year who just got unlucky! Things will get better by themselves!" In reality, we were a weak team, terrible at puck possession, that needs to make serious changes to be a good playoff team.

It was moreso a team that covered up it's flaws with all-league goaltending and consistent top tier scoring from Kessel/JVR. The systemic failure due to lack of personnel/depth and a bad system to compensate for that was covered up by exceptional play by some of the most important roles on the team.

It's understandable why Kessel's perspective would be this considering how effective he was at helping the team outscore its problems. If the defence, bottom 6, coaching or management said this I wouldn't be so positive though.

 

[On-the-Fly]

Here's what he said:

I think we had a good team , We were there last year. We had a bad stretch.We don’t have that stretch, we’re right in it. This year we made some good additions and I think we improved as a team, and we’re going to be ready to go. We’ve got to be prepared for the long season, and we won’t go through one of those again,"

Not exactly "we were fine and dont need to change."

 

[Mansfield]

I see this being said a lot by both players and fans:



And I don't like it at all. We were getting badly outplayed pretty much all season long, and were managing to scrape out wins against the odds. It wasn't just a "bad stretch," it was the good luck running out for a fairly bad team. We played without the puck, in our own zone, all season long - if anything we were lucky to do decently for as long as we did without collapsing.

The logic in Kessel's quote is basically saying "we don't need to change, we were a good team last year who just got unlucky! Things will get better by themselves!" In reality, we were a weak team, terrible at puck possession, that needs to make serious changes to be a good playoff team.

yeah but is he going to say that in public? privately, I think some players understand they can't be successful playing that way. but they aren't going to say it in public if they want to keep their jobs

 

[VaughanBender72]

Leafs didn't have the defence. We needed to score so many goals because the garbage d, we couldn't depend on are defence for 2 goal leads. are offence had to score to compensate for them. If we didn't have Bernier, we easily would've finish top 3 for last place.

 

[ponder]

Just to be clear, my point wasn't to rip on Kessel. My point was that I've seen this same sentiment echoed a fair bit by Leafs players and coaching staff, basically saying that we had a good team last year other than a small stretch of games. It implies that we don't need to change much. In reality I think we had a bad team that has to do serious soul searching, and really change the way we play, to be truly competitive.

If nobody believes what they're saying, and everyone realizes that we're not "there" yet, that we need to make major changes, that's fine. However, if the players and coaches really do feel that we were good enough last year other than the late season collapse, then that's a fairly serious issue.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

I think Carlyle is a good coach, but no one wants to play for him. The player-coach relation is bad. Whixh means the team is gonna play like garbage.

This same guy had trouble utilising Anaheim's roster which included an elite #1C, elite winger and two HOF defenceman. Simply put, his system has aged in an NHL that is more predicated on maintaining possession.

We've improved heavily this season. We'll have four lines now, our D core are much more balanced with Robidas and Polak. I also expect Gardiner, Holland, Kadri , Reilly to keep on improving as well.

 

[Holymakinaw]

This same guy had trouble utilising Anaheim's roster which included an elite #1C, elite winger and two HOF defenceman. Simply put, his system has aged in an NHL that is more predicated on maintaining possession.

We've improved heavily this season. We'll have four lines now, our D core are much more balanced with Robidas and Polak. I also expect Gardiner, Holland, Kadri , Reilly to keep on improving as well.

I don't disagree with you, but isn't it kinda weird that a Coach.....ANY Coach, whether they're young or old.......wouldn't want a big-time possession game. Who wouldn't want possession, all the time?

I think maybe he IS getting to be an "oldschool" guy, and maybe his language and style are not always translating as well as they could be. But you'd have to think that he'd be well aware of the whole possession game thing, and be trying hard to work it into the plan.

 

[Mess]

Just to be clear, my point wasn't to rip on Kessel. My point was that I've seen this same sentiment echoed a fair bit by Leafs players and coaching staff, basically saying that we had a good team last year other than a small stretch of games. It implies that we don't need to change much. In reality I think we had a bad team that has to do serious soul searching, and really change the way we play, to be truly competitive.

If nobody believes what they're saying, and everyone realizes that we're not "there" yet, that we need to make major changes, that's fine. However, if the players and coaches really do feel that we were good enough last year other than the late season collapse, then that's a fairly serious issue.

Agreed

Leafs got outworked, outshot and outplayed in many games last year and were more lucky than good to have the record they did on a hot SO record early on.

That collapse actually could of happened at any stretch during the season where they could easily have lost 12 of 14 games based on being badly outplayed saved only by hot goaltending or streaky scoring. Corsi/Fenwick numbers were near the bottom most of the season.

It is a problem if the players or coaches actually believe wins and losses is the only measure of how the team is playing and should be judged and not how they're actually performing in those games to get those results.

 

[Brewsky]

You forgot the quote in there where he said, "yeah, I guess, you know, uhh, I love hack-ee"

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Just to be clear, my point wasn't to rip on Kessel. My point was that I've seen this same sentiment echoed a fair bit by Leafs players and coaching staff, basically saying that we had a good team last year other than a small stretch of games. It implies that we don't need to change much. In reality I think we had a bad team that has to do serious soul searching, and really change the way we play, to be truly competitive.

If nobody believes what they're saying, and everyone realizes that we're not "there" yet, that we need to make major changes, that's fine. However, if the players and coaches really do feel that we were good enough last year other than the late season collapse, then that's a fairly serious issue.

Kessel is one of the most awkward interviews in all of sports. Those looking for great insight from Kessel are foolish.

Management knows that we had some serious issues and I don't think the significane of the Bolland injury can be overstated. It robbed us of any forward depth last season.

Even before our tailspin Carlyle kept making comments publicly about how we were essentially lucky to winning because we were getting outplayed.

Management bringing in two right handed veteran Dmen this off-season was no coincidence. Having two defensively weak players in Gardiner + Franson on the 2nd pair was a trainwreck and management is trying to avoid that this season.

For this season people need to be realistic that we might just squeeze into the playoffs but could just as easily finish something like 5th last. This team simply had to many holes to fix in one off-season.

This team is still 2 or 3 years away from potentially winning anything as guys like Gardiner, Rielly, Kadri, Nylander, Holland move into their primes to compliment the other high end talents like Kessel, Phaneuf, JVR, Bozak who still have multiple seasons left in their primes.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

This team choked three times in the last three years. Shut your trap and have a year without ******** the bed, and we might start believing you.

THIS^^^

Unfortunately...media folks interview athletes and they are supposed to provide answers to these lame questions. I really don't care what Kessel says as has been pointed out...what is he supposed to say?

They always have to say BS..what is politically correct etc....means absolutely nothing.

The Leafs were a bad hockey team who ran out of luck. Truth. They werent a "good hockey team playing a poor system"..they didn't simply have a "bad stretch". This year they may be more competitive overall because of the lunch bucket brigade brought in but I doubt they will be a lot better in the WINS column.

 

[TheThrill81*]

The Leafs were a bad hockey team who ran out of luck. Truth. They werent a "good hockey team playing a poor system"..they didn't simply have a "bad stretch". This year they may be more competitive overall because of the lunch bucket brigade brought in but I doubt they will be a lot better in the WINS column.

They weren't a "poor team playing a good system" either. And it seems you have a broad definition of luck if you think the Leafs were lucky for about 4/5 of the season. Last time I checked there wasn't any statistic which quantifies luck.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

I expect the Leafs will be more consistent next season. That doesn't mean they'll be back in the playoffs, but it looks like there will be fewer terrible players getting a regular shift or playing in a role well above their abilities. There's more depth in the bottom 6 than there has been the last few years. Still need some help on the blueline, and more elite talent, but I think things are better than they were at the end of the season.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

They weren't a "poor team playing a good system" either. And it seems you have a broad definition of luck if you think the Leafs were lucky for about 4/5 of the season. Last time I checked there wasn't any statistic which quantifies luck.

Many analysts and fans alike did not like the way the Leafs were winning and many many said that it would eventually catch up with them.

The usual crowd with their heads in the sand...spewed out brilliant stuff like

haters will hate
who cares..winning is winning
outscoring your problems is a winning strategy

and so on....

The Leafs LUCK ran out. They were LUCKY to be in the position they were when the LUCK ran out..and percentages caught up to them..they tailspun out of a playoff spot. But of course the people with their heads in the sand never saw it coming and attributed it to BAD LUCK or fatigue or the Olympics or some other nonsense...not realizing that every other team in the league has the exact same amount of games...olympics and injuries. Some teams (the good ones) actually sent two or even in some cases 3X the amount of players the Leafs did to the Olympics...but somehow the Leafs were the most impacted by the Olympic break.

The credibility is declining faster than the Mexican Peso.

 

[Morbo]

Many analysts and fans alike did not like the way the Leafs were winning and many many said that it would eventually catch up with them.

The usual crowd with their heads in the sand...spewed out brilliant stuff like

haters will hate
who cares..winning is winning
outscoring your problems is a winning strategy

and so on....

The Leafs LUCK ran out. They were LUCKY to be in the position they were when the LUCK ran out..and percentages caught up to them..they tailspun out of a playoff spot. But of course the people with their heads in the sand never saw it coming and attributed it to BAD LUCK or fatigue or the Olympics or some other nonsense...not realizing that every other team in the league has the exact same amount of games...olympics and injuries. Some teams (the good ones) actually sent two or even in some cases 3X the amount of players the Leafs did to the Olympics...but somehow the Leafs were the most impacted by the Olympic break.

The credibility is declining faster than the Mexican Peso.

Unfortunately all these people patting themselves on the back since the end of the season(and there are a lot of them) didn't predict either the Leafs being comfortably in a playoff spot at game 70 or Bernier getting injured.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Unfortunately all these people patting themselves on the back since the end of the season(and there are a lot of them) didn't predict either the Leafs being comfortably in a playoff spot at game 70 or Bernier getting injured.

It doesnt matter what they did after game 55/62 or 70. Many predicted they were a bubble playoff team and thats what they were. A season is 82 games. A hockey game is 60 minutes and a playoff series is 4 WINS.

Almost, should have, could have, if not for, blah blah blah...all nonsense. All dumb excuses for losing teams...for losers. That's the reality.

This off season..we have much of the same crap. I'm gonna say this cause its NOT hindsight. Its Foresight.

The Leafs have not improved. They are still a bubble team at best. Playoffs is a long shot and if they make they will make a quick exit.

 

[Morbo]

It doesnt matter what they did after game 55/62 or 70. Many predicted they were a bubble playoff team and thats what they were. A season is 82 games. A hockey game is 60 minutes and a playoff series is 4 WINS.

Almost, should have, could have, if not for, blah blah blah...all nonsense. All dumb excuses for losing teams...for losers. That's the reality.

This off season..we have much of the same crap. I'm gonna say this cause its NOT hindsight. Its Foresight.

The Leafs have not improved. They are still a bubble team at best. Playoffs is a long shot and if they make they will make a quick exit.

What do you mean it doesn't matter what they did? It's stuff like "luck running out" that is the dumb BS excuse.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

What do you mean it doesn't matter what they did? It's stuff like "luck running out" that is the dumb BS excuse.

Nobody cares where you were at the 24th KM of a 30KM marathon.

NOBODY.

Except maybe your mom. Did you get a participation ribbon?

 

[hockeyfanz*]

What do you mean it doesn't matter what they did? It's stuff like "luck running out" that is the dumb BS excuse.

Its not an excuse. Its what happened. They were lucky. Then they stopped being lucky. Its like when you are in Vegas and you are on a roll...winning 500 bucks and then playing with house money and leaving $500 bucks in the hole.

Luck. Ran. Out.

Percentages caught up. Shoulda quit while you were ahead. Unfortunately for the Leafs they couldn't quit while they were ahead. They had to play the full 82 games. In fact the one season where they didn't..they had "success" as measured in Leafs Nation.

A first round playoff exit...where they should made game 7 50 minutes long instead of 60 because then they would have gone on to the Stanley Cup Finals...

 

[Al14]

Kessel has to do his best to HELP avoid a tailspin this season. He has to score on a consistent basis. As well, he needs to help out defensively and be a plus player!

Let's go Kessel.

 

[Morbo]

Its not an excuse. Its what happened. They were lucky. Then they stopped being lucky. Its like when you are in Vegas and you are on a roll...winning 500 bucks and then playing with house money and leaving $500 bucks in the hole.

Luck. Ran. Out.

Percentages caught up. Shoulda quit while you were ahead. Unfortunately for the Leafs they couldn't quit while they were ahead. They had to play the full 82 games. In fact the one season where they didn't..they had "success" as measured in Leafs Nation.

A first round playoff exit...where they should made game 7 50 minutes long instead of 60 because then they would have gone on to the Stanley Cup Finals...

They missed the playoffs primarily because Bernier got injured, not because their "luck ran out". If he stays healthy they make it.

If you want to keep wallowing in casino analogies though, go for it.

 

[Mess]

They missed the playoffs primarily because Bernier got injured, not because their "luck ran out". If he stays healthy they make it.

If you want to keep wallowing in casino analogies though, go for it.

Do you agree the Leafs played a lot of games last year where they got outworked, outplayed and outshot but still managed to win games they had not real right winning based on play? You don't get to 30th in shots against and set an new modern day record for most shots against by have a bad 10 games is the season near the end.

Well those games would fall under more lucky than good categories.

It just happened that the collapse happened at the end, but their play was similar throughout for the most part, and it could have happened earlier it just didn't.

Leafs lead the league in the first half with SO wins with 9.. They recorded 0 SO wins in the 2nd half. Do SO wins fall under the category of luck?

 

[TheThrill81*]

Many analysts and fans alike did not like the way the Leafs were winning and many many said that it would eventually catch up with them.

The usual crowd with their heads in the sand...spewed out brilliant stuff like

haters will hate
who cares..winning is winning
outscoring your problems is a winning strategy

and so on....

The Leafs LUCK ran out. They were LUCKY to be in the position they were when the LUCK ran out..and percentages caught up to them..they tailspun out of a playoff spot. But of course the people with their heads in the sand never saw it coming and attributed it to BAD LUCK or fatigue or the Olympics or some other nonsense...not realizing that every other team in the league has the exact same amount of games...olympics and injuries. Some teams (the good ones) actually sent two or even in some cases 3X the amount of players the Leafs did to the Olympics...but somehow the Leafs were the most impacted by the Olympic break.

The credibility is declining faster than the Mexican Peso.

Wait, so you attribute the Leafs being in a playoff spot for most of the season to being lucky. Yet you claim their collapse late in the season wasn't a result of being unlucky? I don't understand, how do you apply that judgement to one situation but not the other?

And saying that a style of play would eventually catch up over 82 games wasn't exactly going out on a limb. That's like saying if you stay inside a house on fire, you're eventually going to get burned.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

They missed the playoffs primarily because Bernier got injured, not because their "luck ran out". If he stays healthy they make it.

If you want to keep wallowing in casino analogies though, go for it.

You've made pathetically lame excuses for this team and it's management for the past 10 years!!!!


At what point can you just admit that we've been a poorly managed lousy hockey team for 10 years and counting?

The team has had late season melt downs 3 of the past 4 seasons (the one exception was a season TOO SHORT for when the leafs typically meltdown).

I suppose, in the mind of "volcanolgist", the leafs were an elite team EVERY ONE of those seasons, with untimely injuries for the last 20 games.

The lengths that people will go...

 

[Blufreezy]

Hes saying exactly what every athlete on the planet would say.

Exactly this.