Confirmed with Link: Kent Hughes named GM Part 2 - Oh GM My GM (No political talk)

[Gravity]

How did st Louis get ROR?
How did Tampa get Kucherov, Point & McDo?
How did Wash get Kuznetsov, Carlson & Oshie?
How did Pitt get Letang, Kessel & Schultz (elite contributors on their last cup win) or Murray (#1G in the one before).

Yes, all of those teams/contenders had 1-2 (3 in Pitts case) top 5 pick players as part of their core... but their contending & cup success absolutely depended on acquiring other elite players via trade, signing or drafting and developing a later pick into a gem.

I explained at length what it might look like to get to that contending window. As far as predicting specific trade or signing over next 2-3yrs... well that's for the trade proposal board.

If you follow the league, you should know that most elite players that change teams tend to do so relatively unexpectedly... the key is having strong leadership that is able to jump on opportunities when they arise, like Gorton did in NYR to land Fox, Zibanejad & Panarin...

Fortunately, we now have that kind of leadership in place.

Sure and as I've stated before Suzuki, CC and Romanov are part of that core albeit in somewhat of a supporting cast. When I mentioned backbone, i.e. nucleus consisting of top 5 picks, all the teams you mentioned above had that in common so it would be ridiculous to dismiss it as a key ingredient in winning championships.

As for the acquisition of foundational core players, I said via the draft and you said remains to be seen. That's a very vague answer. Gorton and Hughes aren't genies to acquire these pieces in trades out of the blue. This doesn't typically happen without giving something worthwhile back. Bergevin tried to trade his way to elite players and look where that got him. This team is loaded with bad contracts isn't just going to trade it's way to cup by surrounding Suzuki, CC and Romanov. They are not good enough to be the foundational pieces of the franchise.

Simply put, I do not belief that Suzuki,CC, Romanov Poehling and the prospects we have drafted up to date are enough to be the foundational pieces of a championship team. I believe elite talent must first be added via the draft before appropriate vet mentorship is needed. This is where we disagree and that's fine.

 

[Gravity]

Ummm... the next scorer on the Bs cup winning team was Horton, a 3rd OA pick from Florida.

And they had Chara, an elite UFA addition.

You seem to be missing the point... not sure I can explain it any better.

Elite talent is necessary.
Drafting top 3 or top 5 is not the only way to get it.

If anything, when you look at recent cup winners, it's the norm to have 1, maybe 2, top 5 drafted in house talents playing elite roles, and the rest of the elite contributors being either later picks who developed to their ceilings/beyond draft expectations (kuch, point, Vasilevsky, Tarasenko, parayko, Bennington, kuzneysov, Carlson, holtby et.) or were acquired by ufa/trade.

Even Pitt & Chi, poster kids for the multiple top 3-5 pick route to building contenders, actually won with several elite contributors (Keith, Letang, Hossa, Kessel et.) that arrived by other means.

There's seems to be a different definition each of us are referring to when we state core.

As for the bolded, I agree. It's just the most efficient, viable and successfully proven way to build the foundation of a team.

 

[BozoTheClown]

Sure and as I've stated before Suzuki, CC and Romanov are part of that core albeit in somewhat of a supporting cast. When I mentioned backbone, i.e. nucleus consisting of top 5 picks, all the teams you mentioned above had that in common so it would be ridiculous to dismiss it as a key ingredient in winning championships.

As for the acquisition of elite players (by elite I mean the backbone of your core), I said via the draft and you said remains to be seen. That's a very vague answer. Gorton and Hughes aren't genies to acquire these pieces in trades out of the blue. This doesn't typically happen without giving something worthwhile back. Bergevin tried to trade his way to elite players and look where that got him.

Simply put, I do not belief that Suzuki,CC, Romanov Poehling and the prospects we have drafted up to date are enough to comprise a winning core, let alone the nucleus. I believe elite talent must first be added via the draft before appropriate vet mentorship is needed. This is where we disagree and that's fine.

Yep!
The more talented assets we have, the easier it will be to build a team be using those high ends assets to fill gaps in the lineup. Those assets are usually found with several picks in the top 65. Throwing 15 mil to UFA while we have missed the playoffs 5 of the last 6 seasons isn’t the way to go.
Build your foundation and then add to it.

 

[417]

Ummm... the next scorer on the Bs cup winning team was Horton, a 3rd OA pick from Florida.

And they had Chara, an elite UFA addition.

You seem to be missing the point... not sure I can explain it any better.

Elite talent is necessary.
Drafting top 3 or top 5 is not the only way to get it.

If anything, when you look at recent cup winners, it's the norm to have 1, maybe 2, top 5 drafted in house talents playing elite roles, and the rest of the elite contributors being either later picks who developed to their ceilings/beyond draft expectations (kuch, point, Vasilevsky, Tarasenko, parayko, Bennington, kuzneysov, Carlson, holtby et.) or were acquired by ufa/trade.

Even Pitt & Chi, poster kids for the multiple top 3-5 pick route to building contenders, actually won with several elite contributors (Keith, Letang, Hossa, Kessel et.) that arrived by other means.

Totally agreed.

It’s the low hanging fruit to look at teams like the Pens or the Hawks or the Bolts and just attribute their sustained success to their lottery picks and ignore everything else that contributed.

But that’s just skimming the surface.

 

[Habs Icing]

Well we destroyed three 3rd overall picks. Traded a 9th, and are currently wrecking CC and Suzi. I think we can do mildly better.

Three!? Are you counting Drouin? If you are then you gotta figure Tampa had a larger hand in screwing up his development.

 

[Gravity]

Totally agreed.

It’s the low hanging fruit to look at teams like the Pens or the Hawks or the Bolts and just attribute their sustained success to their lottery picks and ignore everything else that contributed.

But that’s just skimming the surface.

Well if every cup winner of the last decade had at least one top 15 pick as part of their core wouldn't it be facetious to ignore it as a key ingredient? If you follow our conversation, you can see that I never mentioned it as the sole ingredient to a winning team.

As for the Habs, the foundational pieces are not there. There is no 1D and no prospect I believe that will fill that void in the near future. So please tell me what your suggestion is to acquire one? Same for 1C.

 

[Miller Time]

Three!? Are you counting Drouin? If you are then you gotta figure Tampa had a larger hand in screwing up his development.

Not really... he had a pretty good run there (his career best season & a very strong playoff run).

They just realized what MB didn't get... he wasn't cut out to be the focal point, but had the attitude and expectation of being treated like a star.

If anything, the bolts handled him perfectly by pumping and dumping him for a better asset to build with after recognizing that the tough love/ahl treatment wasn't getting through to him.

 

[Habs Icing]

Not really... he had a pretty good run there (his career best season & a very strong playoff run).

They just realized what MB didn't get... he wasn't cut out to be the focal point, but had the attitude and expectation of being treated like a star.

If anything, the bolts handled him perfectly by pumping and dumping him for a better asset to build with after recognizing that the tough love/ahl treatment wasn't getting through to him.

I noticed you changed development - the word I used - to handled. That should tell you we're talking about different things.

 

[Miller Time]

Well if every cup winner of the last decade had at least one top 15 pick as part of their core wouldn't it be facetious to ignore it as a key ingredient? If you follow our conversation, you can see that I never mentioned it as the sole ingredient to a winning team.

As for the Habs, the foundational pieces are not there. There is no 1D and no prospect I believe that will fill that void in the near future. So please tell me what your suggestion is to acquire one? Same for 1C.

Do you recall where Price was drafted?

What about Suzuki? Caufield?

Or Drouin

 

[417]

Well if every cup winner of the last decade had at least one top 15 pick as part of their core wouldn't it be facetious to ignore it as a key ingredient? If you follow our conversation, you can see that I never mentioned it as the sole ingredient to a winning team.

I never mentioned that you did. I just reached @Miller Time comments because I’ve echoed those same sentiments myself, it wasn’t directed at you specifically.

As for the Habs, the foundational pieces are not there. There is no 1D and no prospect I believe that will fill that void in the near future. So please tell me what your suggestion is to acquire one? Same for 1C.

Ask the new GM…that’s his job.

 

[Rapala]

Not really... he had a pretty good run there (his career best season & a very strong playoff run).

They just realized what MB didn't get... he wasn't cut out to be the focal point, but had the attitude and expectation of being treated like a star.

If anything, the bolts handled him perfectly by pumping and dumping him for a better asset to build with after recognizing that the tough love/ahl treatment wasn't getting through to him.

An excellent example of Team building on the part of the Bolts. From day one I suggested Drouin would struggle here with the additional focus on him. He was a fourth cog at best in Tampa. He clearly hasn't fit in anywhere here that I can see.

 

[JoelWarlord]

If Sam Montembeault ends up being good enough to drag this team out of the basement then we should be signing him to an eight year contract and abandoning any intention of rebuilding since we'd have a 25 year old superstar franchise goalie to go with Suzuki, Caufield, and our other young players and prospects.

I do not believe we have any particularly compelling reasons to be concerned about this possibility.

 

[Miller Time]

I noticed you changed developed - the word I used - to handled. That should tell you we're talking about different things.

Semantic games not withstanding...

I would call how a team "handles" a prospect in the first few years after drafting them "player development".

Bolts drafted Drouin in 2013, traded him in 2017... how they "handled" him during those 4 years would be what I would call their "development" of the player.

Not sure what difference you think there is btw the two statements

 

[Gravity]

Do you recall where Price was drafted?

What about Suzuki? Caufield?

Or Drouin

All the statement you bolded entails is that championship teams have found impactful core players in the top 15 of the draft, not that every player drafted in the top 15 is a foundational piece. Otherwise, if Colorado wins the cup, it will in great part to Tyson Jost........

 

[Miller Time]

An excellent example of Team building on the part of the Bolts. From day one I suggested Drouin would struggle here with the additional focus on him. He was a fourth cog at best in Tampa. He clearly hasn't fit in anywhere here that I can see.

Yup.

We did about the worst thing possible for him in bringing him to mtl as the first francophone elite talent in decades, then playing him out of position, and having him as the most skilled fwd in the lineup every single year...

On top of it, he's not a natural goal scorer, like Kessel, who could at least light the lamp consistently even if unable to rise to the level of expectations in his overall impact.

 

[Miller Time]

All the statement you bolded entails is that championship teams have found impactful core players in the top 15 of the draft, not that every player drafted in the top 15 is a foundational piece. Otherwise, if Colorado wins the cup, it will in great part to Tyson Jost........

Soooo.... Habs don't need to draft top 3 for multiples years to build a contending core. Glad we agree

 

[Gravity]

I never mentioned that you did. I just reached @Miller Time comments because I’ve echoed those same sentiments myself, it wasn’t directed at you specifically.


Ask the new GM…that’s his job.

Sure no problem, I misunderstood there.

The new GM isn't a genie. He's a human. His decisions will come on the probability of their outcomes resulting in a positive output for the team. I don't expect him to trade for a 1D and 1C because the odds of that happening is very low and it would likely gut the team. However, the draft is the polar opposite.

 

[BLONG7]

Not really... he had a pretty good run there (his career best season & a very strong playoff run).

They just realized what MB didn't get... he wasn't cut out to be the focal point, but had the attitude and expectation of being treated like a star.

If anything, the bolts handled him perfectly by pumping and dumping him for a better asset to build with after recognizing that the tough love/ahl treatment wasn't getting through to him.

MB got schooled by Stevie Y...........beyond words.

 

[Gravity]

Soooo.... Habs don't need to draft top 3 for multiples years to build a contending core. Glad we agree

Or they need to hit the jackpot when the have the greatest chance of landing a core player. You can either get it right in 2-3 tries with the right amateur scouting staff or you can perpetually suck and eventually probability will dictate you finally get an impact player (see Oilers).

 

[Rapala]

I don't know if I'm a lone wolf but so far Caufield has not demonstrated he can be a core player here at this level.

 

[417]

Sure no problem, I misunderstood there.

All good

The new GM isn't a genie. He's a human. His decisions will come on the probability of their outcomes resulting in a positive output for the team. I don't expect him to trade for a 1D and 1C because the probability of that happening is very low and it would likely gut the team. However, the draft is the polar opposite.

that’s the challenge before him, I don’t accept that this is some impossible task though.

Won’t be easy but it is necessary.

 

[Gravity]

All good


that’s the challenge before him, I don’t accept that this is some impossible task though.

Won’t be easy but it is necessary.

Agree and I expect him to fill those holes but not via trade or UFA as a primary resource.

 

[BLONG7]

An excellent example of Team building on the part of the Bolts. From day one I suggested Drouin would struggle here with the additional focus on him. He was a fourth cog at best in Tampa. He clearly hasn't fit in anywhere here that I can see.

Fourth cog? He was not even a top 6 player there........but wanted to be treated and paid like a star...lol
All world skils..........perfectly fit to run hockeyschools, not actually play at a high level, but could teach kids skills....anyhow, the massive mistake was made.
The new regime will not be blinded the way MB was on drafting and development.
Now, after the past 5-6 years of nothing, we have to be patient, as the new regime puts their stamp on things, and tries to clean up the cap mess created by the clown GM.

 

[Rapala]

Fourth cog? He was not even a top 6 player there........but wanted to be treated and paid like a star...lol
All world skils..........perfectly fit to run hockeyschools, not actually play at a high level, but could teach kids skills....anyhow, the massive mistake was made.
The new regime will not be blinded the way MB was on drafting and development.
Now, after the past 5-6 years of nothing, we have to be patient, as the new regime puts their stamp on things, and tries to clean up the cap mess created by the clown GM.

His best sequence in the playoffs had him playing as a fourth or fifth cog. Granted much of it was on the P.P.

 

[Miller Time]

Yep!
The more talented assets we have, the easier it will be to build a team be using those high ends assets to fill gaps in the lineup. Those assets are usually found with several picks in the top 65. Throwing 15 mil to UFA while we have missed the playoffs 5 of the last 6 seasons isn’t the way to go.
Build your foundation and then add to it.

15M on UFAs can be
Savard, Armia, Hoffman, Byron

And it can be
Hamilton, Schwartz/Granlund & Perry

The decision makers making wise pro scouting and roster fit decisions when pulling the trigger is the key piece.

Good teams spend money on UFA, bad ones just do it poorly (See MB)