Confirmed with Link: Kent Hughes named GM Part 2 - Oh GM My GM (No political talk)

[Richiebottles]

Exactly. Clod's comparable for Suzuki was also Krecji. Even if we accept the Boston model, where's the Bergeron coming from?

Could be Wright, or Cooley.

 

[Gravity]

Could be Wright, or Cooley.

Could be. Remains to be seen as they are far less of a sure thing than Bedard.

 

[Miller Time]

Idk man I think it actually might be

Come on...

Playing like league-worst... sure, standings speak fir themselves.

But can't ignore the volume of injuries & covid missed time (we played a game with a roster not eligible for preason play lol)...

And Ducharme is proving to be very inept in his role.

MB built a terrible roster and cap situation, no doubt. But, healthy (even excluding Weber) there still is more NHL talent here than on several other teams and the habs can use the full cap + LTIR space to make adjustments.

This isn't a situation like Arizona or the Sens of the past few years.

 

[salbutera]

The loss of Price & Weber have been enormous… absolutely crippling

 

[GobigorGohome]

The loss of Price & Weber have been enormous… absolutely crippling

Um,.no.

 

[dcyhabs]

Could be Wright, or Cooley.

If Montembault keeps it up and the habs don't do well in the lottery they could pick 5-8th not 1st-3rd.

 

[Miller Time]

They're not busts. They're major pieces in a contending team but I view Suzuki as a 1B/2A C, CC as Debrincat and Romanov as a 2D max. If you accept that, you're still missing a 1C and 1D. My point is that that Suzuki, CC and Romanov are not enough to build a future that is just needing to be mentored by the right vets. If we could add the potential elite prospects in conjunction to what we have in a young Suzuki, CC and Romanov then the situation is vastly different than the Oilers. You would be complementing elite talent with enough young depth to truly build a viable contender for the next 10 years.

As for the parallel to Toronto, I agree the prospect pools are vastly different but there is no surefire prospect in the pool. Instead, there is a plethora of prospects who could further serve as depth on a contending team. Harris, Guhle, Mailloux as top 4 D's. Good enough to be a solid piece of a winning team but not the primary anchor. The parallel was drawn to where I could see us head: figure out this team isn't good enough to contend on it's own, having a miserable season that ends in drafting top 5. The following season they bottom out and pick up Matthews.

If the Habs draft Jiricek and Bedard for example, now you're looking at a situation where you have a complete youth core ready to learn from appropriate vets on how to win. You suddenly have your 1A, 1B down the middle as well as your 1D, 2D and potentially 3/4D with Harris and Guhle stepping in.

When Colorado bottomed out they already had MacKinnon and Landeskog. Adding a Makar and Rantanen promotion made a world of difference for them. This team still lacks it's MacKinnon and Makar (1C and 1D of the future).

Maybe you missed the part we're I explicitly pointed out that they'd be targeting 1-2 25-30 year old elite/impact players to bolster the young core as it moves into their prime years?

Take your Colorado example...
Where was Makar drafted? Right, similar range to where we'll be picking this year. ✔

The point remains that it isn't necessary for us to pick top 2-3 both this year & next to build a contender... we're lottery picking this year, which could/should land us a player with elite potential... yes, we'll still need 1-2 more elite skaters in their prime to rise to contender level, no doubt about that, but as important will be to have a solid core of quality top 6/top 4 players, and a cap structure to keep it together for a sustained window. We have prospect depth that, with a better hockey ops department & stringer pro team culture, should provide a lot of pieces to make that happen over next 3-5 yrs.

How Gorton & Hughes choose to get there, and how quickly, remains to be seen. With the information available and the cap/prospect realities of our current situation, I think it's as or more likely that they take a reset approach vs a scorched earth approach... especially if they are confident Price is healthy and likely to have 2-4 solid years left in him (in fact, if that is the case, I'd say it's almost certain we see an aggressive reset that sees them targeting vet(s) like Letang, Giroux (or lesser options like Giordano or Perron) to improve the veteran leadership group and make playoffs next year a more likely reality.

If Price is LTIR/retirement bound, then I see an intentional roster gutting to optimize lottery odds as more likely (though still not certain)

 

[Gravity]

Maybe you missed the part we're I explicitly pointed out that they'd be targeting 1-2 25-30 year old elite/impact players to bolster the young core as it moves into their prime years?

Take your Colorado example...
Where was Makar drafted? Right, similar range to where we'll be picking this year. ✔

The point remains that it isn't necessary for us to pick top 2-3 this year & next to build a contender... we'll need 1-2 elite skaters in their prime, no doubt about that, but as important will be to have a solid core of quality top 6/top 4 players, and a cap structure to keep it together for a sustained window.

How Gorton & Hughes choose to get there, and how quickly, remains to be seen. With the information available and the cap/prospect realities of our current situation, I think it's as or more likely that they take a reset approach vs a scorched earth approach... especially if they are confident Price is healthy and likely to have 2-4 solid years left in him (in fact, if that is the case, I'd say it's almost certain we see an aggressive reset that sees them targeting vet(s) like Letang, Giroux (or lesser options like Giordano or Perron) to improve the veteran leadership group and make playoffs next year a more likely reality.

If Price is LTIR/retirement bound, then I see an intentional roster gutting to optimize lottery odds as more likely (though still not certain)

So if drafting isn't the only way to get the elite skaters you mentioned (you said you'd be targeting 1-2 25-30 year old elite players), how do you propose to get them (you say remains to be seen)?

I personally disagree entirely with the premise there but I guess we'll agree to disagree.

 

[Rapala]

Yes for another dead contract in Horton who was LTIRed. Point is that was one of the few contracts that set the bar for abysmal contracts and if it could be moved there's hope for less severe ones.

The thing is Horton's contract was not insured which was the only reason he got dealt. Basically a free buyout for the Leafs. I'm not sure it the scenario can ever be replicated?

 

[WhoAreYou99]

If Montembault keeps it up and the habs don't do well in the lottery they could pick 5-8th not 1st-3rd.

Montembault has had one really good game, and people are thinking that he's our next star player.

Let's be realistic here: the guy's record is a dismal 2 wins in 16 games played this season. I don't care if the Montreal Canadiens as a whole have been playing like garbage, Sam Montembault isn't good overall.

I would be shocked if we end up drafting outside the top 5...

 

[Gravity]

The thing is Horton's contract was not insured which was the only reason he got dealt. Basically a free buyout for the Leafs. I'm not sure it the scenario can ever be replicated?

Wasn't aware of that. Thanks for letting me know. My point remains that it is certainly fathomable to trade players who appear very to be difficult to deal.

 

[Gravity]

Gervais: Habs are 1-2 players away from being good again

I agree. Problem is that those players are a 1C and 1D

 

[417]

If Montembault keeps it up and the habs don't do well in the lottery they could pick 5-8th not 1st-3rd.

I don’t think Montembault can keep up facing 50+ shots every night.

either way, keep up what?

THE HABS HAVEN’T WON 2 CONSECUTIVE GAMES ALL YEAR.

p.s. I’m not yelling at you btw, just capitalized for effect. There seems to be panic any time this team picks up a point and I don’t know why.

 

[Miller Time]

Exactly. Clod's comparable for Suzuki was also Krecji. Even if we accept the Boston model, where's the Bergeron coming from?

Bergeron - 45th overall.

The two guys ahead of him in scoring the year the bs won the cup...

Lucic - 60th
Krecj - 63rd

The top picks/talents the Bs drafted before & during that cup (& their run of years as a contender where they reached 2 other finals)...
Seguin - 2nd overall
Kessel - 5th overall
Hamilton - 9th overall
Hamill - 8th overall

& several other busts or depth players with the other 1st rounders... with the 1 exception being Patrnak, picked 25th (lowest 1st round puck they had in 15 yrs from 2003-2018)

of the top 10 picks, 3 contributed more as trade chips (Kessel turning into seguin/Hamilton... which turned into eriksson and a bunch of other middling assets/players) & 1 was a complete bust.

So again, while fans love the appeal of top picks, in reality, it's the culture, prospect development & talent id that builds contending cores.

 

[Rapala]

To be fair, it's Rob Ramage who's been director of players development since 2017. Why aren't people calling for his head too?

They will all go under the microscope no doubt. The important thing for Gorton and Hughes will be
1) Are they qualified for the position they currently hold.
2) Will they all be pulling in the same direction and fit the structure they hope to implement.

Hughes seems to be very very meticulous so he's going to get every bit of input possible.

 

[Gravity]

Bergeron - 45th overall.

The two guys ahead of him in scoring the year the bs won the cup...

Lucic - 60th
Krecj - 63rd

The top picks/talents the Bs drafted before that cup (& their run of years as a contender where they reached 2 other finals)...
Seguin - 2nd overall
Kessel - 5th overall
Hamilton - 9th overall

All 3 of which contributed more as trade chips (Kessel turning into seguin/Hamilton... which turned into eriksson and a bunch of other middling assets/players).

So again, while fans love the appeal of top picks, in reality, it's the culture, prospect development & talent id that builds contending cores.

It's yin and yang. The two are complementary. It takes great amateur scouting to get an impact player where the Bruins got them. Obviously the probability of finding them in the 2nd and 3rd round is lower than the top half of the first round (the major flaw in Bergevin's dartboard mentality). Higher picks are probabilistically safer bets which is why there is greater value associated with them both by fans and by organizations.

If I'm wrong, how many since Boston have won the cup without high draft picks as a focal point of their core? Seems like you're looking at the exception, not the norm.

 

[Habricot]

I haven’t watched Minnesota enough to know this but are they just a team that has turned it around to make the playoffs (eventually losing in the 1st couple of rounds) or are they building a team that will compete for a Cup year after year?

Also like you pointed out it helped Geurin having Kaprizov. Montreal doesn’t have a player like that in their system.

Its all a question of perspective. They donkvhave a Suzuki and Romanov either. You need to maximize the youth we have while maximizing the youth to be drafted. To me thats the Carolina route and in my books Suzuki could become as efficient as Aho.

 

[Habricot]

If Montembault keeps it up and the habs don't do well in the lottery they could pick 5-8th not 1st-3rd.

And there are hi quality players in that range to. Picking first is far from a guaranty of picking the best player in that draft. Its not like there is a mcdavid this year. Having Susuki and Rmanov become the best version of them selves is far more important then finishing in the bottom 3 and can still put us in a bottom 3 position.

 

[Rapala]

They were 1-2 players away with healthy Price and Weber. It’s closer to 4 now with no cap space to do it.

Yeah I agree. I'm not sure how Gervais sees it but not knowing the what is going on with Price and Weber should preclude anyone from making such bold predictions. Particularly with no cap space and long term wasting assets which probably won't garner a hell of a lot.

 

[WatchfulElm]

They will all go under the microscope no doubt. The important thing for Gorton and Hughes will be
1) Are they qualified for the position they currently hold.
2) Will they all be pulling in the same direction and fit the structure they hope to implement.

Hughes seems to be very very meticulous so he's going to get every bit of input possible.

Yeah, they are in a better position than us to evaluate everybody and understand the internal dynamic. I'm pretty sure also they'll keep many guys from the Bergevin administration to ensure some continuity. My feeling is that Lapointe will stay, since he's friend already with Hughes. (I think they play summer hockey together, along with Enrico Ciccone. Heard this somewhere but can't find a link anymore).

 

[Runner77]

That surperstar was drafted in the 5th round by the Wild
Just to show that sometimes, finishing last for a high pick and destroying everything isn't the only answer.

Signing and retaining the best scouts is more sustainable than relying on landing a top pick that may be diluted by a weak draft class, in my opinion.

 

[Miller Time]

So if drafting isn't the only way to get the elite skaters you mentioned (you said you'd be targeting 1-2 25-30 year old elite players), how do you propose to get them (you say remains to be seen)?

I personally disagree entirely with the premise there but I guess we'll agree to disagree.

How did st Louis get ROR?
How did Tampa get Kucherov, Point & McDo?
How did Wash get Kuznetsov, Carlson & Oshie?
How did Pitt get Letang, Kessel & Schultz (elite contributors on their last cup win) or Murray (#1G in the one before).

Yes, all of those teams/contenders had 1-2 (3 in Pitts case) top 5 pick players as part of their core... but their contending & cup success absolutely depended on acquiring other elite players via trade, signing or drafting and developing a later pick into a gem.

I explained at length what it might look like to get to that contending window. As far as predicting specific trade or signing over next 2-3yrs... well that's for the trade proposal board.

If you follow the league, you should know that most elite players that change teams tend to do so relatively unexpectedly... the key is having strong leadership that is able to jump on opportunities when they arise, like Gorton did in NYR to land Fox, Zibanejad & Panarin...

Fortunately, we now have that kind of leadership in place.

 

[417]

Signing and retaining the best scouts is more sustainable than relying on landing a top pick that may be diluted by a weak draft class, in my opinion.

All of this

 

[Miller Time]

It's yin and yang. The two are complementary. It takes great amateur scouting to get an impact player where the Bruins got them. Obviously the probability of finding them in the 2nd and 3rd round is lower than the top half of the first round (the major flaw in Bergevin's dartboard mentality). Higher picks are probabilistically safer bets which is why there is greater value associated with them both by fans and by organizations.

If I'm wrong, how many since Boston have won the cup without high draft picks as a focal point of their core? Seems like you're looking at the exception, not the norm.

Ummm... the next scorer on the Bs cup winning team was Horton, a 3rd OA pick from Florida.

And they had Chara, an elite UFA addition.

You seem to be missing the point... not sure I can explain it any better.

Elite talent is necessary.
Drafting top 3 or top 5 is not the only way to get it.

If anything, when you look at recent cup winners, it's the norm to have 1, maybe 2, top 5 drafted in house talents playing elite roles, and the rest of the elite contributors being either later picks who developed to their ceilings/beyond draft expectations (kuch, point, Vasilevsky, Tarasenko, parayko, Bennington, kuzneysov, Carlson, holtby et.) or were acquired by ufa/trade.

Even Pitt & Chi, poster kids for the multiple top 3-5 pick route to building contenders, actually won with several elite contributors (Keith, Letang, Hossa, Kessel et.) that arrived by other means.

 

[Miller Time]

Signing and retaining the best scouts is more sustainable than relying on landing a top pick that may be diluted by a weak draft class, in my opinion.

More sustainable and a leverage point that a cash-flush organization like the habs can use without restraint... presuming the ppl in charge care more about winning & excellence than being surrounded by foxhole buddies & yes-men