Speculation: Ken Holland less than confident

[WingedWheel1987]

Great point.

We should fire Holland and hire Feaster so he can pump up the fanbase with guarantees every year. It's funny how certain things catch on with the Wings fanbase and snowballs. Holland is archaic, Franzen sucks, etc.

Ken Holland is turning into Jay Feaster. Feaster is trying to win with a flawed roster that has no hope of winning the cup and he signs worthless players like Hudler and Wideman. Fortunately, Holland is a massive cheapskate so his crap signings aren't nearly as bad, but they don't do anything to turn the Wings into contenders.

 

[Hckytwn]

"If we get the improvements we want, we can be the best team in the Western Conference," he said, "but if we don't get them, it might be a struggle even making the playoffs. But you've got to understand that we're doing this on the fly. We want to compete for the Cup this year, but we also want to compete for it in 2016."

If only that were true... however, signing Sammy and trying to give him a top-6 role says it isn't. Sammy doesn't help us this year or next, and bringing him in stunts the development of players that could be key in 2016.

 

[ricky0034]

haha good call. Definitely makes a lot of us look silly.

I still stand by my comments that I'm tired of hearing Holland talk about parity. Dude needs to stop coming up with excuses as to why his team isn't already a favorite to win. If he could have made a big trade/signing and actually spent time improving the roster instead of just signing a guy like White or a guy like Samuelsson, maybe he'd actually be able to shut up about the parity and talk about how the team is going to be better than it was last year.

That's where my problem comes in. I want him to stop feeling like that's a valid excuse to use, because it really isn't.

I still don't get why Holland didn't atleast go after Semin instead of Samuelsson

Carolina even got him for 1 year!

I mean.... how much better would this look than the current top 6?

Filppula-Datsyuk-Semin
Franzen-Zetterberg-Brunner

 

[WingedWheel1987]

I still don't get why Holland didn't atleast go after Semin instead of Samuelsson

Carolina even got him for 1 year!

I mean.... how much better would this look than the current top 6?

Filppula-Datsyuk-Semin
Franzen-Zetterberg-Brunner

Franzen fills up the quota for lazy uninspired play.

Although, Semin is far more talented than Franzen.

 

[Animus]

This topic will only get worse after the 2014 season.

 

[Huddy*]

I heard Ken Holland on 97.1's Inside Hockeytown and he sounded like he was less than confident. When asked if the goal was still to win the cup we waffled and stuttered. He sounded apologetic and kept talking about parity. He mentioned over and over that we are competing with 30 teams now for talent and there isn't much to go around. Has Holland conceded that the run is over?

1. He was being interviewed by Pat Caputo. Pat's questions last night were awful. Ken Kal saved Pat, multiple times, when Holland was searching for answers to Pats awful questions.

Example- talking about Suter/Parise being Minnie guys and not wanting to come Detroit, bc they werent from here, and or Windsor..LOL pat

2. Holland was obviously doing something, other than giving his full 100% attention to the interview. It was obvious, he was either driving, and or, on a plane. He was fiddling around, which could easily be heard in his voice.

3. His comment about parity, was 100% truth. Its a different NHL. 30 teams have a chance (meh, sorry CBJ), and gone are the days, where he can pick up any player. Lets not forget here, an 8 seed won the cup last year, so yeah, his comment about parity is on par.

he is rebuilding a very very good core. it will take time. he knows this. the wings are in a very good position given their depth, and cap room.

holland last night, was not focused on a terrible 97.1 interview. he has 3 days from the time of the interview, to get the team ready to go for a very very short season, with a lot on the line..

I still don't get why Holland didn't atleast go after Semin instead of Samuelsson

Carolina even got him for 1 year!

I mean.... how much better would this look than the current top 6?

Filppula-Datsyuk-Semin
Franzen-Zetterberg-Brunner

Hmm?? can think of some reasons

1. lazy
2. not worth the money
3. history of being lazy

have fun in carolina

 

[CloneHakanPlease*]

Semin actually had turned his play around last season on the defensive side, a big reason why the Caps wanted to resign him despite his big drop in offensive production. Would you be surprised if I told you Semin played on the PK regularly on Washington?

I don't want to turn this into a Semin debate, but I agree with the sentiments that for a one year deal, the risk was worth the potential huge production, especially for a team with a Billionaire owner. If there was some internal problem, like Datsyuk not liking him, fine, but from a logistics point of view it's kinda baffling Holland didn't at least explore the possibility more.

 

[JBauerly97]

Does anybody happen to know if maybe Holland or Babcock spoke to any of the senior/leader players on the team to get their thoughts on Semin? Just wondering if they would've had any input on pursuing him or not.

 

[Huddy*]

Semin actually had turned his play around last season on the defensive side, a big reason why the Caps wanted to resign him despite his big drop in offensive production. Would you be surprised if I told you Semin played on the PK regularly on Washington?

I don't want to turn this into a Semin debate, but I agree with the sentiments that for a one year deal, the risk was worth the potential huge production, especially for a team with a Billionaire owner. If there was some internal problem, like Datsyuk not liking him, fine, but from a logistics point of view it's kinda baffling Holland didn't at least explore the possibility more.

and where did that get WSH and Semin? Bounced from the Playoffs, and a one way ticket out of DC

 

[Run the Jewels]

Holland still hasn't figured out that the way to a talent advantage in this league is to inject youth and hope they play above their paycheck. If you can replace $6 mil a year Rafalski with Smith on an entry level deal well that's a pretty effective way to manage costs and save for that big free agent.

Replace Hudler with Nyquist instead of Sammy; don't extend Bert and play Tatar.

Even if those guys aren't in your long term plans, by playing them they become tradable assets. Holland can't trade because our roster is composed of a few untouchables and recycled garbage.

As far as the run being over I think Babcock conceded that when he commented that going into the season last year they were unsure whether this team was good enough to make the playoffs.

I agree with the vast majority of this. The last guys to takea spot in Detroit before their time was Kronner and Mule. Filppula was forced into the lineup against Holland's will due to injury. Helm and Abby too I guess but neither guy is a big minute contributor. Smith should be in the lineup although that would be unlikely if we signed a few UFAs we targeted. No Nyquist, no Tatar, etc.

At least if you play the young guys you know what you have. Instead you end up with Mursaks, Kindls and Emmertons. Guys who demand roster spots but do not have a clear fit on the DRW. It's asset management gone overboard. The Wings have become a hugely conservative franchise. This is the season to be bold and shake things up IMO. The hard core fans will largely understand.

 

[CloneHakanPlease*]

and where did that get WSH and Semin? Bounced from the Playoffs, and a one way ticket out of DC

1) That's a horrible argument. I guess Holland shouldn't of signed Hossa in the off season of 2008 since we didn't win the cup that year. Correlation does not equal causation, and insinuating that one player is the reason a team bowed out is as stupid as saying one player singlehandedly won the cup. You can be a positive presence on a bad team. You can argue that he was overpaid but since we didn't end up using the cap space for anything useful anyways, you might as well take a risk on a one year. You can agree or disagree that we should of tried to sign him more, but that line of logic is Pejorative Slured.

2)Washington tried to re-sign him multiple times. He left voluntarily.

 

[PullHard]

1) That's a horrible argument. I guess Holland shouldn't of signed Hossa in the off season of 2008 since we didn't win the cup that year. Correlation does not equal causation, and insinuating that one player is the reason a team bowed out is as stupid as saying one player singlehandedly won the cup. You can be a positive presence on a bad team. You can argue that he was overpaid but since we didn't end up using the cap space for anything useful anyways, you might as well take a risk on a one year. You can agree or disagree that we should of tried to sign him more, but that line of logic is Pejorative Slured.

2)Washington tried to re-sign him multiple times. He left voluntarily.

Its pretty clear who watches the NHL and who watches only Wings games. Don't waste your breath, let these people inform themselves or live in ignorance. Semin would've changed a lot of tunes on this forum if he was a Wing this season.

 

[Debrincat93]

Well maybe if they didnt keep kids down there in GR for 5 years and brought them up, we could have more money to spend, less idiots on the roster being worthless and be faster, younger and more competitive.

 

[pdd]

Replace Hudler with Nyquist instead of Sammy; don't extend Bert and play Tatar.

How about replace Hudler with Hudler?

Let Bertuzzi walk... he's useless.

Nyquist-Zetterberg-Hudler
Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Brunner
Franzen-Filppula-Samuelsson
Abdelkader-Helm-Tootoo
Mursak/Emmerton/Mursak

Trade one of Miller/Emmerton/Mursak and Quincey to get a solid defensive guy. Maybe Emmerton+Quincey for Hjalmarsson+pick? Or perhaps Miller+Quincey for Gunnarsson+pick?

That could give us:
Kronwall-Ericsson
Smith-Gunnarsson/Hjalmarsson
Colaiacovo/Kindl-White

I like it.

 

[TS Quint]

Franzen fills up the quota for lazy uninspired play.

Although, Semin is far more talented than Franzen.

See this is the crux of Wings fans these days. You have a group who wants to go out and sign the sexy name. The group who would call Holland an idiot for signing the same player. And then there is a group who could belong to either who would call Holland an idiot for paying too much. Same goes for trades. I didn't see many trades at the deadline where I thought "wow what a deal!!". I just see buying teams getting ripped off. People complain about the Q deal, compared to what everyone else was paying for players he was cheap.

I like a lot of our prospects. I wish we had a little more diversity in skill set but maybe that's greedy when I look at other teams who can't develop NHL talent I shouldn't complain. The prospects pool is getting deeper and deeper as Holland promised. I don't see it as a bad thing to ask the prospects to earn their position. If all they are asking is Nyquist has to out play Sammy I don't think that is asking too much. We are adding at least 3 young guys to the roster this year. With the compressed season there will be injuries and Nyquist and Tatar should get their chance. There should be at least one more/ year for the next 3 years. Not many teams can say that about players who will have impact prospects in the next few years. I don't know if I want to ruin this pool of prospects making a deadline trade.

 

[crashman]

correction: You're "less than confident" in this team.

If you didn't project your own thoughts into his statements, then maybe you'd just think Holland was being modest. He conceded nothing. What did you expect him to say?

 

[Huddy*]

Its pretty clear who watches the NHL and who watches only Wings games. Don't waste your breath, let these people inform themselves or live in ignorance. Semin would've changed a lot of tunes on this forum if he was a Wing this season.

Ive watched plenty of other NHL Games, to know im not "ignorant" when it comes to talking hockey. Obviously, Semin would have changed the magnitude of the Red Wings. Did I say it wouldnt? LOL, your comment is nothing more than ignorant.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

So my question is, if this isn't a team Holland is confident in, why the hell is he stalling the development of youth for bums like Sammy and Bertuzzi?

Really poor asset management, IMO.

 

[RedMenace]

Just to add some perspective to the thread, here's some stuff from Holland regarding parity:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...supreme-in-the-nhl/article7449949/?cmpid=rss1

“Somebody asked me the other day, ‘who are the Cup contenders?’ and my answer was, ‘the Cup contenders are the 16 teams that make the playoffs,’” Detroit Red Wings general manager Ken Holland said. “If you make the playoffs, you’ve got a chance to win the Stanley Cup.

“In ’05, when the salary-cap world came into being, part of that was for economics, but part of it was for parity – to give everybody an opportunity. That’s the beauty of the league right now. It’s wide open."

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Parity is an excuse by Holland to promote his do nothing approach. Everybody else being mediocre doesnt mean it's OK for your team to be mediocre too. Of course this attitude is completely wrong, and will result in another 1st round exit or no playoffs at all.

If Dean Lombardi used the Ken Holland GM playbook, the Kings would have not won the cup.

Unfortunately the Kings winning the cup allows GM's like Holland to preach to the uninformed fans that the Wings are legit contenders. Once you actually analyze the Kings situation for two seconds, you realize that the Kings winning the cup was a four year build up that culminated in one final trade that gave the Kings a complete team and not a matter of just getting in and getting hot.

Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

of course holland is talking like this, shouldnt he be?

LA, St. Louis, Nashville and Chicago are all locks to make the playoffs for the next number of years given the immense depth of young top end talent they have

Vancouver is the only team in the West who is truly in its prime, so give them another 2-4 years as well

Edmonton and Minny are going to be top 4 teams in the West within the next 2-3 years each

Colorado is on its way up as well

Calgary and SJ are on the downside

Phoneix is still an engima

Columbus is 5 years away form being any real threat

Holland would be a fool if he didnt see the writing on the wall, the West is very competitive and will be even more so over the next couple of years

 

[WingedWheel1987]

of course holland is talking like this, shouldnt he be?

LA, St. Louis, Nashville and Chicago are all locks to make the playoffs for the next number of years given the immense depth of young top end talent they have

Vancouver is the only team in the West who is truly in its prime, so give them another 2-4 years as well

Edmonton and Minny are going to be top 4 teams in the West within the next 2-3 years each

Colorado is on its way up as well

Calgary and SJ are on the downside

Phoneix is still an engima

Columbus is 5 years away form being any real threat

Holland would be a fool if he didnt see the writing on the wall, the West is very competitive and will be even more so over the next couple of years

It upsets fans because like Bob said (paraphrasing), why the hell is he putting his prospects in the cellar if he doesnt think this team is good enough? He is putting together a team he knows cant contend. You have nothing to lose if your current team isnt good enough by playing prospects.

I would not be surprised if Holland is simply just trying to preserve the playoff streak so he can add to his legacy.

 

[mindfly]

So my question is, if this isn't a team Holland is confident in, why the hell is he stalling the development of youth for bums like Sammy and Bertuzzi?

Really poor asset management, IMO.

He's a overrated and bad GM imo.

 

[ricky0034]

of course holland is talking like this, shouldnt he be?

LA, St. Louis, Nashville and Chicago are all locks to make the playoffs for the next number of years given the immense depth of young top end talent they have

Vancouver is the only team in the West who is truly in its prime, so give them another 2-4 years as well

Edmonton and Minny are going to be top 4 teams in the West within the next 2-3 years each

Colorado is on its way up as well

Calgary and SJ are on the downside

Phoneix is still an engima

Columbus is 5 years away form being any real threat

Holland would be a fool if he didnt see the writing on the wall, the West is very competitive and will be even more so over the next couple of years

LA had a nice run in the Playoffs but was the 8 seed and for quite a while it was looking like they had a good chance of missing entirely

Chicago was 2 points from missing the Playoffs the year before last year and have some huge question marks of their own

St. Louis went on a nice run but only made the Playoffs a grand total of twice between the two lockouts(with the other time being back the year the Wings lost in the cup finals) and even last year struggled quite a bit before they got Hitchcock

Nashville just lost Suter

nah you're right they're all total locks in perpetuity

 

[JmanWingsFan]

So my question is, if this isn't a team Holland is confident in, why the hell is he stalling the development of youth for bums like Sammy and Bertuzzi?

Really poor asset management, IMO.

Maybe he foresaw the lockout and decided to lock up a lot of depth, considering the injuries that are mounting league wide. Also the fact these guys are veterans makes it easier to transition to post-Lidstrom era with a more calm and collected group instead of throwing youngsters into the fire and tell them "K guys, Lidstrom's gone have at it."

Next, you keep Tatar and Nyquist in Grand Rapids and keep them at their current playing time and don't throw them completely out of routine with a week of training camp and then an all out blitz to the finish line. Next year, the UFA departures allow us to throw Tatar and Nyquist into major roles. I say that's decent asset management, if you ask me.