Post-Game Talk: kangz @ copz 7:07pm

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Hivemind

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Did anyone see the game against Winnipeg? The one where CMM started on the 2nd line before he got benched in the 3rd. Seems everyone is forgotten how bad he was.
He had one bad turnover against Winnipeg, he wasn't atrocious all game. More to the point, that's a valid excuse for giving him low TOI against Winnipeg, but why would he have low TOI against the Kings when he was clearly playing well AND scored a goal? Why not give him PP time when everyone else on the roster is getting a shot on the PP during the SEVEN PPs they had, especially considering nobody else was producing results?
 

txpd

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Point to some specifics regarding CMM. If he is such a defensive liability, there must be some plays that standout to you where he crapped the bed leading to other teams scoring. And if he is such a big defensive liability, there must be multiple examples of such cases. Even last night, what exactly did he do to lead to only 6 mins of TOI?

I hope that I can offer something without starting a fight. First, Laviolette has been constant during his pressers that the offense comes from the defense and the details. He has been outspoken on Sprong. He said, "We know he can shoot the puck. What we need is a 200ft game." and so on. He doesn't talk about McMichael. What he does is talk about Protas and why he is playing so much and what they like about him. They like his defense and his details. His stick position and usage. They like his reach and his battle for pucks. The reach is related to the details. You can't say for sure but its logical to guess that Protas is better at these things than McMichael and Protas gets the TOI.

Also McMichael's entire line last night had played in 43 NHL games before last night. They didnt play much as a result.
 

tycoonheart

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I hope that I can offer something without starting a fight. First, Laviolette has been constant during his pressers that the offense comes from the defense and the details. He has been outspoken on Sprong. He said, "We know he can shoot the puck. What we need is a 200ft game." and so on. He doesn't talk about McMichael. What he does is talk about Protas and why he is playing so much and what they like about him. They like his defense and his details. His stick position and usage. They like his reach and his battle for pucks. The reach is related to the details. You can't say for sure but its logical to guess that Protas is better at these things than McMichael and Protas gets the TOI.

Also McMichael's entire line last night had played in 43 NHL games before last night. They didnt play much as a result.

Okay? You quoted me but your post doesn't seem to have to do anything with what I asked for. Sure play Protas more, I have no problem with that. I like him too.

Back to what I asked for, what exactly is McMichael doing wrong for him to not get the TOI?
 
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txpd

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Okay? You quoted me but your post doesn't seem to have to do anything with what I asked for. Sure play Protas more, I have no problem with that. I like him too.

Back to what I asked for, what exactly is McMichael doing wrong for him to not get the TOI?

All the things that Laviolette says that Protas is doing right. McMichael isn't doing or doing well enough. Coverage, reads, decisions, details including body and stick position, ability to win puck battles and so forth. Stuff that the coaches coach.
 

Hivemind

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All the things that Laviolette says that Protas is doing right. McMichael isn't doing or doing well enough. Coverage, reads, decisions, details including body and stick position, ability to win puck battles and so forth. Stuff that the coaches coach.
He asked for a specific example, not a inference based on a coach quote.
 

um

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He asked for a specific example, not a inference based on a coach quote.
In the game against Winnipeg McMichael turned over the puck right before the Orlov penalty, he was benched the rest of the game.

McMichael often sees his role and ice time diminish because he often makes bad plays. He’s highly skilled, but he’s not very smart, quick or strong.

Although I do wish he’d get some PP time.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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Calling CMM “not very smart” at this point seems premature. PLENTY of successful NHL’ers didn’t know their heads from their asses in the defensive zone at 20.


My enthusiasm over his potential top end has waned some, but I still think he’s going to score 20-30 someday here.

I also think he’s physically outmatched…..has some maturing to do there….skating, etc….more strength and polish is all.
 

Hivemind

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In the game against Winnipeg McMichael turned over the puck right before the Orlov penalty, he was benched the rest of the game.

McMichael often sees his role and ice time diminish because he often makes bad plays. He’s highly skilled, but he’s not very smart, quick or strong.

Although I do wish he’d get some PP time.
That seems to be the only example that people can come up with. I'm sure someone will dig up one other example from earlier in the season, but it doesn't really meet the assertion @tycoonheart was making (that if he's a defensive liability and makes bad plays, there would be frequent examples to back that up). Can you cite more examples of the "often makes bad plays?" For those of us who make Carl Hagelin a whipping boy, we can hang our hat on 10+ examples of him whiffing on offensive opportunities. Same with those of us who like to guffaw at Carlson's blunders, and even those who are highly critical of Kuznetsov or one (or both) of the goalies. I don't think anyone can even come close to doing that with McMichael.

And like was said earlier in the thread, that turnover against Winnipeg explains his ice time being low against Winnipeg. Why was his ice time even lower against Los Angeles? Why was his line benched halfway through the third despite creating basically the Caps best chance of the third period prior to the final 30 seconds? What bad play was there to justify that?

I also strongly disagree with your assertion that McMichael is not a smart or quick player. Those are his strengths as a hockey player. He's not a guy who's going to dominate possession along the boards or stick handle thru and entire defense, he's a guy that can dart to the open ice and keep a play alive. That's how he thrived at lower levels, and how his opportunities have come so far in the NHL.
 
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txpd

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Calling CMM “not very smart” at this point seems premature. PLENTY of successful NHL’ers didn’t know their heads from their asses in the defensive zone at 20.


My enthusiasm over his potential top end has waned some, but I still think he’s going to score 20-30 someday here.

I also think he’s physically outmatched…..has some maturing to do there….skating, etc….more strength and polish is all.

I am not in the slightest down on McMichael. MacLellan said at the end of last season and the beginning of camp this season that McMichael was not expected to be on the team. This issue isnt McMichael having trouble, its Protas being ahead of the curve. The problems that McMichael appears to be having are normal for a player of his age. He is ahead of the curve for his draft class. Protas on the other hand is killing it. He is a lot like Tom Wilson at the same age. He appears to be very coachable. Show him something once or twice and he picks it up and is strong enough to battle NHL size men.

I think we should be far more excited about Protas than down on McMichael
 

maacoshark

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There is an easy answer, if hard to see for some. Why does Protas play and McMichael not so much? Same reason that Sheary plays and Sprong doesn't, last night's game not withstanding?
I can see why but others here cannot. Protas is definitely ahead of McMichael in development.
 
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maacoshark

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I am not in the slightest down on McMichael. MacLellan said at the end of last season and the beginning of camp this season that McMichael was not expected to be on the team. This issue isnt McMichael having trouble, its Protas being ahead of the curve. The problems that McMichael appears to be having are normal for a player of his age. He is ahead of the curve for his draft class. Protas on the other hand is killing it. He is a lot like Tom Wilson at the same age. He appears to be very coachable. Show him something once or twice and he picks it up and is strong enough to battle NHL size men.

I think we should be far more excited about Protas than down on McMichael
I'm not really down on McMichael. He is playing as I expected. Alot of people here seem to think he is a savior.
I have to say that I am very pleased with Protas.
 

maacoshark

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Alot of people are whining because of McMichael's low ice time. Keep in mind there was a lot of penalties in this game and he doesnt play on the pp or pk units.
Some also think he should be on the pp. If so where do you put him?
 

Hivemind

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There are two spots for a left shot on the Caps pp. The half wall pp qb spot and the rw corner puck retriever spot.
And McMichael could absolutely fill either of those roles on PP2, especially on a night in which the Caps powerplay finished -1 in 12 minutes of PP time. It's not as if any of the multitude of other players that got a PP opportunity did anything positive with their time. Even Martin Fehervary got a shot at that gig last night.

You could also, you know, make adjustments instead of rigidly forcing the same formation that even the league's 25th ranked PK had zero problem shutting down. Especially when your powerplay is in the midst of a 1-for-21 streak. Is putting an off-wing shot in the bumper position really less fruitful than 5:01 of PPTOI for Garnet Hatheway? Maybe give a 3rd left shooter an option to roam a bit?
 

HTFN

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There are two spots for a left shot on the Caps pp. The half wall pp qb spot and the rw corner puck retriever spot.
And you’re the one saying the Capitals need a shooting option on that side to keep teams honest, right?
Alot of people are whining because of McMichael's low ice time. Keep in mind there was a lot of penalties in this game and he doesnt play on the pp or pk units.
Some also think he should be on the pp. If so where do you put him?
Keep it in mind? It’s one of the main things we think is stupid.
 

txpd

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And you’re the one saying the Capitals need a shooting option on that side to keep teams honest, right?.

The guy has 4 points in his last 16 games and 1 in his last 8. So I was thinking Orlov but ok. We can put him there. Have you seen him score from the outside yet?
 

Hivemind

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The guy has 4 points in his last 16 games and 1 in his last 8. So I was thinking Orlov but ok. We can put him there. Have you seen him score from the outside yet?
He had 1 goal in his last 1 game last night. How many goals/points has your boy Protas scored in his last 8 games?

If players never get an opportunity, they're going to have long stretches between goals and points.

Yes, I've seen him score from the outside:


And we've also seen him score multiple goals from the down low area where Sheary and Eller are currently playing.
 

HTFN

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CMM isn’t the guy to keep teams honest on the PP…not yet.
Not out of the gates. Actually I was thinking more along the lines of "a PK cheating so hard towards Ovechkin and Carlson is going to give the youngster some free, open, confidence building chances", but since it tied in to other things tex is adamant about I thought it might be a good opportunity to show how you can work on a few different things at the same time.

McMichael should be able to get some quality offensive touches without a whole ton of overthinking his defensive role on the powerplay, and the team needed some talented players on it anyway with Hathaway out there. Do you move players out of the way for him? Of course not, but when you're already scraping the bottom of the barrel there's just no reason not to.
 
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trick9

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Jun 2, 2013
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I struggle to see what Laviolette is wanting to see from McMichael and Sprong.

Sprong had a really good game in Winnipeg and he was around 17 minutes. He didn't have a good game here and made a brutal defensive play in that SHG. After that he was rewarded with over 8 minutes in the last 23 minutes.

McMichael was invisible in Winnipeg and played 9:23. In this game he scored a goal in his 3rd shift. After that he was basically benched. Played 1:54 of the next 25 minutes. Then he had few short shifts again. In the 3rd he had 3 shifts, 13 seconds, 23 seconds and 39 seconds. Finished with 6:18 of playing time.

Seems like McMichael got benched for scoring a goal and Sprong was rewarded for his terrible defensive play on the SHG. And no. He wasn't the only one to blame for that goal but they can't afford to bench Ovechkin for more than just a single shift. If it's not McMichael then why not play Sheary more? Sprong is hardly the answer to anything.
 

txpd

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What was Ovechkin exploding at Sprong about? It had nothing to do with what Sprong did with the puck. A lot of this is coaching level stuff. They tell the players what they want and need and some players do it and some player cant do it and some players wont do it and other players do it with passion while others yet do it but whine.

The difference between Protas and McMichael is entirely about those things as is the difference between Sheary and Sprong. This board is full of comments complaining about how much Sheary plays and how little Sprong plays.
 
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