Kane 2016 Or Matthews 2022?

[Sky04]

Very easily Kane, he was clearly the best player in the league that year, Matthews was like 6th or 7th in scoring.

 

[leafsfan5]

Very easily Kane, he was clearly the best player in the league that year, Matthews was like 6th or 7th in scoring.

The quality of competition between 2022 and 2016 is drastic

During 2016 the league was going through a transition period where the new guard of elite talent was coming in while the previous generation was slowing down. A player like Jamie Benn was 2nd in scoring that year lol (Benn in his prime was elite, but if he was in peak right now form he wouldn't have been 2nd in scoring this year)

In 2022 Matthews is up against the likes of prime McDavid and Draisaitl

Matthews also missed 9 games which explains his scoring placement, he was 3rd in the league in PPG (barely behind 2nd which was Kucherov who only played 49 games)

 

[34]

Matthews AINEC

AM34 is the best player in the NHL.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Matthews finishes 9% ahead of 10th in points, who was also his teammate. He finished third in PPG.

Kane finished 37% ahead of 10th, who was also in teammate. He finished first in PPG, 18% ahead of second in the league.

No one was even close to Kane that year. Several places were close (and arguably better) than Matthews this year.

The defensive gap is very present, but not nearly enough to make up the massive offense gap.

For reference, McDavid finished 26.8% of 10th place this year. Kane's season is equivalent to a 133 point season this year. That's a full 10 points ahead of McDavid and 27 points ahead of Matthews.

 

[pcruz]

Matthews finishes 9% ahead of 10th in points, who was also his teammate. He finished third in PPG.

Kane finished 37% ahead of 10th, who was also in teammate. He finished first in PPG, 18% ahead of second in the league.

No one was even close to Kane that year. Several places were close (and arguably better) than Matthews this year.

The defensive gap is very present, but not nearly enough to make up the massive offense gap.

For reference, McDavid finished 26.8% of 10th place this year. Kane's season is equivalent to a 133 point season this year. That's a full 10 points ahead of McDavid and 27 points ahead of Matthews.

Are we comparing the production of a player who played in all 82 games versus a player who was involved in 73 games and coming off wrist surgery?

Interesting.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Are we comparing the production of a player who played in all 82 games versus a player who was involved in 73 games and coming off wrist surgery?

Interesting.

In terms of who had the better season, we are only looking at games played. How much did Matthews help his team from the bench?

And Kane dominated the league in PPG (18%) while Matthews finished third.

 

[pcruz]

In terms of who had the better season, we are only looking at games played. How much did Matthews help his team from the bench?

And Kane dominated the league in PPG (18%) while Matthews finished third.

Well, then, if we're talking about how much the player helped his team, let's do a little digging shall we?

From the start of the season until December 1st, Toronto played 24 games.
Of these 24 games, Jack Campbell started 18 and posted a .943 save %. Woll, Hutch and Mrazek started a total of 6 games and posted around a .910 save %.
In that 24 game stretch, Matthews played 21 games and posted 13 goals and 9 assists for 22 points.

Good production, but the goaltending situation was phenomenal and the team didn't need superstar offense to win games when the starter is posting .943 save %.


Well, from December 1st until March 1st, the goaltending posted well below .900 save %.
Campbell with a .893 save % in 20 starts
Mrazek with a .899 save % in 9 starts
Woll with a .854 save % in his 1 start.

The goaltending needed major support in order for the team to win games. Which they did.
Despite having such atrocious save %, the team won 19 games and lost 8 during this stretch.

Why??

Matthews played 30 games, 27 goals, 49 points during this time.
Marner played 21 games, 15 goals, 37 points.
Rielly - 3 goals, 30 points.


Seems to me like the major factor in the team winning 19 out of those 30 games was that Matthews was able to outscore the goaltending woes.

When comparing the 2 players - Matthews and Kane:

60 goals, 106 points, 44 Even strength goals, 77 even strength points, 348 shots, 92 takeaways, 13 post/crossbar - playing centre, playing with a 26 year old rookie.

Compared to

46 goals, 106 points, 29 even strength goals, 69 even strength points, 287 shots, 34 takeaways, 3 post/crossbar - playing wing, playing sheltered by Toews and Panarin

 

[KevinRedkey]

Had Matthews played 82 games I'd probably vote him - but I'll take Kane and his dominance over peers over Matthews and not being in the top 5 for points.

I can see it both ways though.

 

[ClydeLee]

Well, then, if we're talking about how much the player helped his team, let's do a little digging shall we?

From the start of the season until December 1st, Toronto played 24 games.
Of these 24 games, Jack Campbell started 18 and posted a .943 save %. Woll, Hutch and Mrazek started a total of 6 games and posted around a .910 save %.
In that 24 game stretch, Matthews played 21 games and posted 13 goals and 9 assists for 22 points.

Good production, but the goaltending situation was phenomenal and the team didn't need superstar offense to win games when the starter is posting .943 save %.


Well, from December 1st until March 1st, the goaltending posted well below .900 save %.
Campbell with a .893 save % in 20 starts
Mrazek with a .899 save % in 9 starts
Woll with a .854 save % in his 1 start.

The goaltending needed major support in order for the team to win games. Which they did.
Despite having such atrocious save %, the team won 19 games and lost 8 during this stretch.

Why??

Matthews played 30 games, 27 goals, 49 points during this time.
Marner played 21 games, 15 goals, 37 points.
Rielly - 3 goals, 30 points.


Seems to me like the major factor in the team winning 19 out of those 30 games was that Matthews was able to outscore the goaltending woes.

When comparing the 2 players - Matthews and Kane:

60 goals, 106 points, 44 Even strength goals, 77 even strength points, 348 shots, 92 takeaways, 13 post/crossbar - playing centre, playing with a 26 year old rookie.

Compared to

46 goals, 106 points, 29 even strength goals, 69 even strength points, 287 shots, 34 takeaways, 3 post/crossbar - playing wing, playing sheltered by Toews and Panarin

You know Panarin was a 24 year old rookie so what does that say about Bunting just being some 26 year old rookie. Weird attempted points come across here

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Kane, easily.

He destroyed the league that year.

 

[Stamkos4life]

One finished first in ppg and points by 17.

The other came 3rd in ppg and 6th in points.

Tough decision.

 

[Vakarte]

Matthews finishes 9% ahead of 10th in points, who was also his teammate. He finished third in PPG.

Kane finished 37% ahead of 10th, who was also in teammate. He finished first in PPG, 18% ahead of second in the league.

No one was even close to Kane that year. Several places were close (and arguably better) than Matthews this year.

The defensive gap is very present, but not nearly enough to make up the massive offense gap.

For reference, McDavid finished 26.8% of 10th place this year. Kane's season is equivalent to a 133 point season this year. That's a full 10 points ahead of McDavid and 27 points ahead of Matthews.

So how did your calculation get 133 points?

 

[Regal]

So how did your calculation get 133 points?

10th place in points (Marner at 97) x 1.37 (Kane was 37% better than 10th place his year) = 133. The thought being that 10th place in scoring tends to be fairly standardized in terms of his place relative to league scoring trends (among elite players anyway).

Though I personally believe that this year was a bit of a high level competition year, and Kane’s season was probably more similar to McDavid’s this year in terms of production

 

[WarriorofTime]

People are bad at era adjusting and just assume a higher scoring era means better players. /thread

 

[Regal]

People are bad at era adjusting and just assume a higher scoring era means better players. /thread

People are also bad at separating unsustainable point totals from being a better player.