Speculation: Kadri or Gardiner for ROR? Dreger?

[Rielly4]

I dont think ROR will be too much more effective then Bozak, but long term he will be better... The thing is if he wants 5 mil its not worth it for us as we already have grabo Lups and Kess at 5 mil range plus JVR at 4.5 we cant afford to have all these 5 mil forwards who arent even stars or we wont be able to resign guys like Kadri Gardiner Kessel Rielly Reimer when they want raises.

 

[Scion]

So because he is younger, he is a better player?

You remarked that Jake Gardiner's first season was better than Ryan O'Reilly's first season, but neglected to mention that Jake Gardiner was older during his rookie season than Ryan O'Reilly during his 55 point season.

I guess ROR is better than Crosby since he is younger. Crosby is capable of 120 pts, but since ROR is younger who knows what he can put up.

Typical HF reaction:

Your reading comprehension is not very good if that is the parallel you drew from my post.

 

[sangreale]

I wouldn't worry about Avs fans having concerns about Gunnarsson.

Don't forget they are the ones with the player they don't think is worth the money he is asking with a single season of offensive contributions.

Avs are not offering up a Duchene here, it is O'Reilly. Ask them who they value more and why?

The marketing hype on O'Reilly is completely unrealistic. Heck, we're hearing all sorts of new stats that are in the development phases being used to justify how good he is. As I found out he's better than Malkin based on those stats.

Nonis better check and see if there really is a pig in that poke. I am assuming that Nonis and his clansmen will know what ROR is actually worth.

And yes ... I know what happens when you ass_u_me.

 

[Duffman955]

You remarked that Jake Gardiner's first season was better than Ryan O'Reilly's first season, but neglected to mention that Jake Gardiner was older during his rookie season than Ryan O'Reilly during his 55 point season.



Your reading comprehension is not very good if that is the parallel you drew from my post.

If you think ROR is better than kadri/gardiner your player assessment skills are not very good.

 

[Scion]

If you think ROR is better than kadri/gardiner your player assessment skills are not very good.

I'm a hockey fan, not a scout or a hockey executive. It should come as no surprise that my player assessment skills are lacking. If they were better I would be working in a different industry, presumably alongside you.

 

[Pi]

They both have pretty short hair already!

Amazing typo

 

[TheCLAM]

If you think ROR is better than kadri/gardiner your player assessment skills are not very good.

It all depends on the contingent need of the franchise. All three players have different styles of play. Kadri/Gardiner are more inexperienced at the NHL level compared to O'Reilly, who is already established as a defensive force.

I don't think you realize how good of an overall player O'Reilly actually is. You shouldn't be so quick to jump the gun without knowing all the facts.

 

[Faltorvo]

If you add 5 million to a team who's current cap space is 6.3, you leave it with not much to work with. If Kessel and Phaneuf are seeking similar deals to what they are getting, if not more.

Kadri is an RFA next year. So are Kostka, Gunnarson, and Franson.

I don't believe flipping talent for ROR(which depletes this organization), then giving the money for one guy helps this franchise in the long-term. And I'd rather save those assets for a legitimate 1C, if one does become available. Or, the Leafs keep what they have and possibly draft a top 10 player.

Well ,i don't know where your are getting you calculations from.

But adding ROR at 5.5m per does not handcuff us at all, sure we will have to make moves to adjust for it, but thats about it.

 

[Duffman955]

It all depends on the contingent need of the franchise. All three players have different styles of play. Kadri/Gardiner are more inexperienced at the NHL level compared to O'Reilly, who is already established as a defensive force.

I don't think you realize how good of an overall player O'Reilly actually is. You shouldn't be so quick to jump the gun without knowing all the facts.

OKay let me lay out the facts:

ROR was drafted in the 2nd round because scouts and GM's thought his offensive talent was lacking.

After being drafted ROR makes a very weak Avs team and scores and astounding 26 points in 2 consecutive years. Which is about the pace of a 3rd liner.

While scoring at a very low clip, ROR establishes himself as a serviceable #3C behind Stastny and Duschene. He is able to do so with his defensive prowess although he lacks a physical game or the size to be an effective checker.

Last year the Avs face a rash of injuries allowing ROR to step up as the default best center. He gets top PP minutes and plays with the Avs best wingers. He scores at a mediocre 55 point pace. Which is 2nd line production while playing on the 1st line.

This is about all the facts. Care to state any more?

 

[Scion]

It all depends on the contingent need of the franchise. All three players have different styles of play. Kadri/Gardiner are more inexperienced at the NHL level compared to O'Reilly, who is already established as a defensive force.

I don't think you realize how good of an overall player O'Reilly actually is. You shouldn't be so quick to jump the gun without knowing all the facts.

I concur, which is precisely why I think a deal centered around Ryan O'Reilly and Jake Gardiner is feasible for both sides.

The Maple Leafs lack quality and depth down the middle, but have an abundance of quality defenceman. Conversely, the Avalanche have a need for quality two way defenceman, but have a plethora of good, young centers. Intuitively, it would seem to make sense for both the Leafs and Avalanche.

 

[Trill Kessell]

Grabovski for O'Reilly Swap?? Thoughts??

 

[PeeBee78]

I would trade Grabo and Gardiner for O'Reilly....

We have a glut on defense and Grabo hasn't played as well as he could this season....

O'Reilly would be a great piece moving forward.

 

[Scion]

OKay let me lay out the facts:

ROR was drafted in the 2nd round because scouts and GM's thought his offensive talent was lacking.

After being drafted ROR makes a very weak Avs team and scores and astounding 26 points in 2 consecutive years. Which is about the pace of a 3rd liner.

At the same stage of development, Jake Gardiner was still in the NCAA producing 13 and 41 points respectively in 2009 and 2010. Are we to assume that Jake Gardiner is not a very good player because he was not in the NHL and producing at a high level at age 18 and 19?

While scoring at a very low clip, ROR establishes himself as a serviceable #3C behind Stastny and Duschene. He is able to do so with his defensive prowess although he lacks a physical game or the size to be an effective checker.

Last year the Avs face a rash of injuries allowing ROR to step up as the default best center. He gets top PP minutes and plays with the Avs best wingers. He scores at a mediocre 55 point pace. Which is 2nd line production while playing on the 1st line.

Paul Stastny was healthy for 79 games last season, and Ryan O'Reilly usurped him. Matt Duchene missed considerable time, but even after returning from injury Ryan O'Reilly continued to play more ice time in all situations, save for the power play.

Furthermore, 55 points is not mediocre for a 20 year old centerman in the NHL, in fact there aren't very many players in the NHL that have accomplished that feat (post-lockout).

This is about all the facts. Care to state any more?

You seem to be confusing facts with opinion, there is a difference.

 

[Faltorvo]

OKay let me lay out the facts:

ROR was drafted in the 2nd round because scouts and GM's thought his offensive talent was lacking.

After being drafted ROR makes a very weak Avs team and scores and astounding 26 points in 2 consecutive years. Which is about the pace of a 3rd liner.

While scoring at a very low clip, ROR establishes himself as a serviceable #3C behind Stastny and Duschene. He is able to do so with his defensive prowess although he lacks a physical game or the size to be an effective checker.

Last year the Avs face a rash of injuries allowing ROR to step up as the default best center. He gets top PP minutes and plays with the Avs best wingers. He scores at a mediocre 55 point pace. Which is 2nd line production while playing on the 1st line.

This is about all the facts. Care to state any more?

Thats not a accurate descriptions to last season.

Stast played 79 games, so either ROR did not become the defacto 1rst line C or he passed Stast in the depth chart making him their 2nd line C and defacto #1 for the 22 games that Duch missed.

Duch dresses for 58 games, soooooo with that said, he was only elevated from 3rd c (as per you opinion) to defacto 1rst C for a mere 22 games, i'd say "a mediocre 55 points" is a inaccurate description.

 

[Trill Kessell]

Establishing worth is difficult with O'Reilly because he has only had 1 good season and it wasn't even that great. Gardiner is too big of a piece for O'Reilly in addition to Grabovski yet Colorado wants a Michael Del Zotto calibre player plus additional pieces. They need to come back down to earth a little before we can make a deal imo.

 

[cup67]

we get ROR, IF
we want to keep dion long term
we dont want grabo
we move kulimen for simon depres
we dont resign bozak
we get getzlaf

than gardiner + is the deal to be made. nonis knows all those answers already

down the middle getz, kadri, o'rielly

 

[ULF_55]

we get ROR, IF
we want to keep dion long term
we dont want grabo
we move kulimen for simon depres
we dont resign bozak
we get getzlaf

than gardiner + is the deal to be made. nonis knows all those answers already

down the middle getz, kadri, o'rielly

So you want to give up Gardiner + for a 3rd. line center?

 

[firstemperor]

And yet, last seasons point productions numbers from each were nearly the same. And, until last season, Bozak was more steadily progressing than ROR(and yes, I do realize Bozak was on line 1 most of the time and ROR wasn't).

But still, I think Kessel generates most of his offensive opportunities on his own. He was magnificient with Lupul last season, and has proven to have some juice with Kulemin as well. He is clearly missing Lupul right now, but I don't believe ROR is going to have instant chemistry with Kessel if he becomes the team's 1C.

I believe removing Bozak makes Kessel weaker. At least when it comes to replacing him with ROR(even if he is somewhat better offfensively than Bozak).

And what exactly? Bozak has 4 years on ROR. The comparison made was that Bozak is somehow analogous in value to ROR. Only a leaf fan could make that argument. I mean, seriously, we're talking about a guy with 1st line upside and the argument is being made with Bozak 4 years further in his development. Keep in mind Bozak is sheltered in his tenure in Toronto, he gets to play on the 1st line with Kessel/Lupul. From strictly a value standpoint, I can't fathom how either of you can compare Bozak to ROR. It would be like me arguing Selanne, at 41, is superior to Morgan Reilly in terms of value.

Fact of the matter is ROR is a sought after prospect because he's better than Bozak right now, but he's also 4 years younger and has a huge amount of unseen/untapped upside. Whether he reaches that over his development curve another thing. But there is literally no comparison between the two otherwise.

 

[TmlHockeyFan]

I wouldn't give up either Kadri nor Gardiner for O'Rielly but I would trade Gardiner over Kadri.

 

[Faltorvo]

So you want to give up Gardiner + for a 3rd. line center?

I'm thinking we wait 3 weeks(get our injured players back and see where we are in the standings, leaves about 21 games left) and 5.5m per offer sheet for ROR and let the chips fall.

Time to pull out the bully bat ,now that we might be a middle of the pack team.

 

[cup67]

So you want to give up Gardiner + for a 3rd. line center?

ror and kadri learning under getzlaf will lead this team for a long time. remember age.

 

[cup67]

I'm thinking we wait 3 weeks(get our injured players back and see where we are in the standings, leaves about 21 games left) and 5.5m per offer sheet for ROR and let the chips fall.

Time to pull out the bully bat ,now that we might be a middle of the pack team.

nonis will never do that, maybe the rangers

 

[Faltorvo]

And what exactly? Bozak has 4 years on ROR. The comparison made was that Bozak is somehow analogous in value to ROR. Only a leaf fan could make that argument. I mean, seriously, we're talking about a guy with 1st line upside and the argument is being made with Bozak 4 years further in his development. Keep in mind Bozak is sheltered in his tenure in Toronto, he gets to play on the 1st line with Kessel/Lupul. From strictly a value standpoint, I can't fathom how either of you can compare Bozak to ROR. It would be like me arguing Selanne, at 41, is superior to Morgan Reilly in terms of value.

Fact of the matter is ROR is a sought after prospect because he's better than Bozak right now, but he's also 4 years younger and has a huge amount of unseen/untapped upside. Whether he reaches that over his development curve another thing. But there is literally no comparison between the two otherwise.

ROR is 5 years younger IIRC.

 

[firstemperor]

ROR is 5 years younger IIRC.

Thanks for proving the point even further.

 

[Faltorvo]

nonis will never do that, maybe the rangers

Don't be to sure about that 67.

The kid just turned 22 and is a C.

With only 21 games left and his roster getting healthy by then, i could see DN being able to take fair stock at where that 1rst will end up.

If i looks like a middle of the pack type 1rst, well.