Kadri Discussion Thread (Mod Warning Post #576)

[ULF_55]

Carry On.

Stay on topic ... which is Kadri

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1807913&page=40


Previous Thread: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1818969

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[johnny_rudeboy]

surprised if kadri asks for more than four

4 years perhaps but he will be asking for a lot more then $4m per. That is not the same as he is gonna get it.

 

[Menzinger]

His contract comparables across the league are in the 4.5-5.5 range. I'd expect it to be around there.

 

[jughead42*]

His contract comparables across the league are in the 4.5-5.5 range. I'd expect it to be around there.

Who are these comparables? Sam Gagner makes 3.2 a year and Kadri isn't a better player. Don't pretend Kadri compares to the kid from Columbus or even Henrique from Jersey at 4 mil. Your numbers are gross for this player.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Who are these comparables? Sam Gagner makes 3.2 a year and Kadri isn't a better player. Don't pretend Kadri compares to the kid from Columbus or even Henrique from Jersey at 4 mil. Your numbers are gross for this player.

No two players are the same so there is no perfect comparable. If I'm his agent I probably start with Bozak though.

 

[4evaBlue]

Here's the part I don't get. The majority of the fan base, media and the team is shoving Kessel out the door for needing to be propped up defensively, and not contributing enough to gaining possession of the puck.

Exhibit A



~ 5 mins of ToI against the Habs from 6-7 shifts that yielded:

• 4 offensive turnovers (1 cleaned up by Panik)
• 3 defensive (1 cleaned up by Robidas)

The fascination with the toe drag was evident from a few shifts, and was the main reason why the 2nd PP unit couldn't penetrate the offensive zone on the one shift.

If having to prop Kessel up is such a huge deal, despite what a great offensive talent he is, why is there so little attention to how much propping up Kadri requires? Granted, he usually cough up the puck THIS much, but it happens often enough to be noteworthy. And he essentially spends most of his time playing alongside a random PK unit much like Kessel does. I certainly don't see him as the same caliber of two-way player as his advanced stats compatibles may suggest.

Are people consciously sweeping it under the rug as a non-issue and something he'll eventually grow out of, or have they completely turned a blind eye to it subconsciously and are not even seeing these plays? Or am I being too hard on Kadri for seeing 7 turnovers in that sequence of shifts?

Either way, I'm starting to think keeping Kadri is the best thing to do for the tank, and he needs to be promoted to Kessel's line ASAP (hopefully once Bozak is traded). You add this amount of turnovers on Kessel and JVR's shoulders, and the line crumbles.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Here's the part I don't get. The majority of the fan base, media and the team is shoving Kessel out the door for needing to be propped up defensively, and not contributing enough to gaining possession of the puck.

Exhibit A



~ 5 mins of ToI against the Habs from 6-7 shifts that yielded:

• 4 offensive turnovers (1 cleaned up by Panik)
• 3 defensive (1 cleaned up by Robidas)

The fascination with the toe drag was evident from a few shifts, and was the main reason why the 2nd PP unit couldn't penetrate the offensive zone on the one shift.

If having to prop Kessel up is such a huge deal, despite what a great offensive talent he is, why is there so little attention to how much propping up Kadri requires? Granted, he usually cough up the puck THIS much, but it happens often enough to be noteworthy. And he essentially spends most of his time playing alongside a random PK unit much like Kessel does. I certainly don't see him as the same caliber of two-way player as his advanced stats compatibles may suggest.

Are people consciously sweeping it under the rug as a non-issue and something he'll eventually grow out of, or have they completely turned a blind eye to it subconsciously and are not even seeing these plays? Or am I being too hard on Kadri for seeing 7 turnovers in that sequence of shifts?

Either way, I'm starting to think keeping Kadri is the best thing to do for the tank, and he needs to be promoted to Kessel's line ASAP (hopefully once Bozak is traded). You add this amount of turnovers on Kessel and JVR's shoulders, and the line crumbles.

Kadri had a bad game, one of the worst he's had in years. You really can't pick out shifts from one game and then talk about how he should be blamed more for not contributing enough to gain possession of the puck, when the overall statistics show that he is easily our best possession forward and a top player in that regard league-wide.

If you are nitpicking like you are with any player, you are going to start to second guess a lot of things.

 

[yubbers]

Let's look on the bright side. Without the terrible year, if Kadri out up 50-60 points, we'd have to dish out 6. He'll end up 4.5ish which I'm fine with

 

[wmark]

Kadri had a bad game, one of the worst he's had in years. You really can't pick out shifts from one game and then talk about how he should be blamed more for not contributing enough to gain possession of the puck, when the overall statistics show that he is easily our best possession forward and a top player in that regard league-wide.

If you are nitpicking like you are with any player, you are going to start to second guess a lot of things.

He was so bad, his line was the only line that scored.

 

[ironhorse384]

Blue you have to remember that a lot of people don't like to do honest assessments of players like you do. They like to latch on to these guys and defend them till their, what seems like, dying day. Kadri has talent sure but he makes a lot of mistakes and like you rightfully point out, he relies a little to heavily on the "toe drag". I'd like to see his hockey IQ go up along with his ability to make better passes, which as you know, is crucial to being a good centerman along with more diversity in his offensive game.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Blue you have to remember that a lot of people don't like to do honest assessments of players like you do. They like to latch on to these guys and defend them till their, what seems like, dying day. Kadri has talent sure but he makes a lot of mistakes and like you rightfully point out, he relies a little to heavily on the "toe drag". I'd like to see his hockey IQ go up along with his ability to make better passes, which as you know, is crucial to being a good centerman along with more diversity in his offensive game.

Picking out isolated clips from 1 game is an honest assessment in your world?

 

[Peasy]

He was so bad, his line was the only line that scored.

Yeah man he did SO much on that play, the goal was all him.

 

[Peasy]

No two players are the same so there is no perfect comparable. If I'm his agent I probably start with Bozak though.

What is he gunna compare with Bozak? That for their career highs, Kadri has scored 1 more goal and one more point? Man that would definitely get him a contract way above Bozak's level.

 

[mikebel111*]

Keep making people upset Nazem!
Lol at nitpicking

 

[Al14]

Would we be willing to trade Kadri to Ottawa for their 2015 1st round pick?

Just thinking it might be another shot at a lottery win.

 

[mikebel111*]

Kadri started that play as he controlled the puck and set up a good chance but yeah he didnt do anything
And blue post that in the Bozak as its more appropriate there
#disaster

 

[wmark]

Yeah man he did SO much on that play, the goal was all him.

Kadri has played more minutes than Bozak in four of the last six games. Kadri's line has produced five goals and 10 points in that time; Bozak's has two goals and five points.


Ya, playing with Kadri has no impact it seems.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Kadri had a bad game, one of the worst he's had in years. You really can't pick out shifts from one game and then talk about how he should be blamed more for not contributing enough to gain possession of the puck, when the overall statistics show that he is easily our best possession forward and a top player in that regard league-wide.

If you are nitpicking like you are with any player, you are going to start to second guess a lot of things.

Isn't this what we do here for all players? There are other players that are under the microscope far more than Kadri.

I think the discussion basically comes down to this. He was signed to a bridge contract 2 years ago. It was incumbent on the player to prove his worth. It's not about other players or comparables or linemates. It is about Kadri who will be 25 when next season begins.

In his bridge years it looks like this when you are signing a Center.

50 points. -12. 45% Faceoff %.
44 projected points. -4. 46 Faceoff %

What is a 25 year old player worth when management has basically challenged this player to play and we will pay you.

I would certainly no long term deal, another 1 year bridge. Maybe, or a trade candidate if he wants 5M and term.

So I know it's Kadri, people love him like Jake Gardiner last summer. But if it's player X what is he worth? Not 5M, maybe not even 4.5M if we are truly going to be more prudent capwise. IE Pridham.

 

[Gary Nylund]

What is he gunna compare with Bozak? That for their career highs, Kadri has scored 1 more goal and one more point? Man that would definitely get him a contract way above Bozak's level.

There's a little more to it than that chief. I'm sure if you think about it some you can do better.

 

[Hugh Mongusbig]

No two players are the same so there is no perfect comparable. If I'm his agent I probably start with Bozak though.

And if I'm Nonis, I point out that Bozak has out produced your client this season, so Bozak money would be the ceiling, not the floor for your client. I then point out other players in a similar 2C/3C role who have similar production like Sheahan and Helm in Detroit who are making $1M and $2M respectively. I would also point out that those players have won championships at the AHL or NHL level. What has Kadri accomplished other than losing an AHL Memorial Cup in 2008 or losing the 2010 WJC gold medal to the Americans?

 

[SkateSave]

Sometime I like to think of Kadri like Steen when he was with the leafs. They both had skills but were still figuring what actually works and what doesn't in the NHL. I felt at times when Steen was here that he had enough talent and smarts to figure it out, he just needed more "processing" time so to speak.

We'll what happens with kadri.

 

[Gary Nylund]

And if I'm Nonis, I point out that Bozak has out produced your client this season, so Bozak money would be the ceiling, not the floor for your client. I then point out other players in a similar 2C/3C role who have similar production like Sheahan and Helm in Detroit who are making $1M and $2M respectively. I would also point out that those players have won championships at the AHL or NHL level. What has Kadri accomplished other than losing an AHL Memorial Cup in 2008 or losing the 2010 WJC gold medal to the Americans?

I'm sure you realize that there's more to player assessment than sorting by points.

As to the second bolded part,

 

[Hugh Mongusbig]

I'm sure you realize that there's more to player assessment than sorting by points.

I could sort by FO% if it would make you happy, but Bozak would still come out ahead.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Sometime I like to think of Kadri like Steen when he was with the leafs. They both had skills but were still figuring what actually works and what doesn't in the NHL. I felt at times when Steen was here that he had enough talent and smarts to figure it out, he just needed more "processing" time so to speak.

We'll what happens with kadri.

Or one might look at Kadri as Luke Schenn. Potential never reached. We got lucky with JVR. They don't always turn out like Steen.

 

[wmark]

And if I'm Nonis, I point out that Bozak has out produced your client this season, so Bozak money would be the ceiling, not the floor for your client. I then point out other players in a similar 2C/3C role who have similar production like Sheahan and Helm in Detroit who are making $1M and $2M respectively. I would also point out that those players have won championships at the AHL or NHL level. What has Kadri accomplished other than losing an AHL Memorial Cup in 2008 or losing the 2010 WJC gold medal to the Americans?

If you are going to bring stuff up.

Get the names correct Sir.

AHL = Calder Cup
CHL = Memorial Cup

Because AHL and Juniors success always translate to NHL sucess.

Pogge and Keith Aucoin say Hi.