Kadri Discussion Thread: ''I never felt that Nazem ever listened to me'' - RW

[Pookie]

Yup, that was a ridiculous thing to say. Amazing that there are people who still consider Wilson a reliable source of anything after that gem.

Haha yeah amazing.

Amazing that a guy who is trying to make a post coaching career based on his rep would stake it all on lies.

Give your head a shake.

There is no incentive to lie when you are building your brand. If he is "found out" his broadcast, book, speaking career is done.

 

[Pookie]

He's one of our best players (I think hes our best player--especially given the circumstances hes been put into: not enough pp time with decent wingers, changing of line mates, etc).
This is based on what I personally see.

If that is the case then our best player is ver replaceable.

We need to develop better best players.

 

[ACC1224]

Kadri Discussion Thread folks. Stay on topic and keep comments about Wilson in the context of this thread.

Thanks.

My fault, thought this was a Wilson/Kadri thread.

 

[Duke Silver]

Haha yeah amazing.

Amazing that a guy who is trying to make a post coaching career based on his rep would stake it all on lies.

Give your head a shake.

There is no incentive to lie when you are building your brand. If he is "found out" his broadcast, book, speaking career is done.

It's hard to determine if something is a "lie" when it cannot be proven/disproven as fact.

You think he's being 100% forthcoming and unbiased?

Why wouldn't he try to make himself look better? He left the Leafs after basically getting shouted out of the ACC. He was viewed as a cantankerous dinosaur.

 

[Pookie]

It's hard to determine if something is a "lie" when it cannot be proven/disproven as fact.

You think he's being 100% forthcoming and unbiased?

Why wouldn't he try to make himself look better? He left the Leafs after basically getting shouted out of the ACC. He was viewed as a cantankerous dinosaur.

It's simple rational business motivation.

He will get paid to talk about his experience. While that may be subjedtive, to make sh@t up will essentially ensure he never gets a gig again.

Think of ex-CEOs, Politicians, Players, Refs, etc. Their ability to generate a long term dollar is based on their credibility. If what he is saying is false, he won't work again and may be sued.

Look, the Leafs absolutely suck. We have been through multiple managers, assistants and GMs. Many of whom have had success before they were here and some after.

At some point we have to put down the player Pom Poms and consider that maybe this "culture" thing that seems to be the common denominator is actually trying to tell us something.

Or not... everyone is lying. No big deal. Players are infallible.

 

[JCole]

Wilson said he wants back in the game? Never going to happen now that he is ripping his old team. Would you hire someone who tore apart his old employer and its staff on television?

 

[Duke Silver]

It's simple rational business motivation.

He will get paid to talk about his experience. While that may be subjedtive, to make sh@t up will essentially ensure he never gets a gig again.

Think of ex-CEOs, Politicians, Players, Refs, etc. Their ability to generate a long term dollar is based on their credibility. If what he is saying is false, he won't work again and may be sued.

Look, the Leafs absolutely suck. We have been through multiple managers, assistants and GMs. Many of whom have had success before they were here and some after.

At some point we have to put down the player Pom Poms and consider that maybe this "culture" thing that seems to be the common denominator is actually trying to tell us something.

Or not... everyone is lying. No big deal. Players are infallible.

That last phrase wasn't my point at all, but you can keep swinging and missing for all I care.

Always question the source. Always question their motivations and biases. A healthy dose of scepticism never hurts. I and many others don't happen to think he was very fair to Kadri and admitting as much would raise questions about his ability to evaluate talent in today's NHL. Better to pass the buck and present himself as competent.

Politicians, by the way, make a living on bending, distorting and misrepresenting the truth. Hardly a good analogy there.

 

[Snow Dog]

What reason would Wilson have to lie?The guy is a jerk,but he's not stupid.I didn't hear about anyone from the team calling him out.And TSN would be careful as to their content after the TDL incident with Lupul/Phaneuf.

 

[Snow Dog]

Wilson said he wants back in the game? Never going to happen now that he is ripping his old team. Would you hire someone who tore apart his old employer and its staff on television?

I don't think a 5 minute conversation is going to have a bearing on his future in coaching.

 

[Rielly Good]

I don't think a 5 minute conversation is going to have a bearing on his future in coaching.

It doesn't matter how long the conversation was. He sat there and cut up his old team. Why would anyone want him after that. If you are fired take it like a man and never say anything. He is just trying so hard to be relevant again.

 

[Pookie]

That last phrase wasn't my point at all, but you can keep swinging and missing for all I care.

Always question the source. Always question their motivations and biases. A healthy dose of scepticism never hurts. I and many others don't happen to think he was very fair to Kadri and admitting as much would raise questions about his ability to evaluate talent in today's NHL. Better to pass the buck and present himself as competent.

Politicians, by the way, make a living on bending, distorting and misrepresenting the truth. Hardly a good analogy there.

I quote "always question their motivation and bias."

That's exactly what I did.

Wilson is building the Wilson brand. Get on panels. Paid for interviews. Maybe write a book. What LONG TERM value is there in lying?

None. He would be found out and never cited again as a panelist. End of the cheques.

Honestly, we talk about critical thinking and I appreciate your willingness to question the source. Clearly here, he has everything to lose by lying.

Which lends itself to credible

 

[ShooterMikgaven]

Ron is such a crusty POS. Shut your yap ron.

 

[Rielly Good]

I quote "always question their motivation and bias."

That's exactly what I did.

Wilson is building the Wilson brand. Get on panels. Paid for interviews. Maybe write a book. What LONG TERM value is there in lying?

None. He would be found out and never cited again as a panelist. End of the cheques.

Honestly, we talk about critical thinking and I appreciate your willingness to question the source. Clearly here, he has everything to lose by lying.

Which lends itself to credible

The thing is he doesn't say he doesn't listen. He just says he never felt like he listened. And what was he supposed to listen to Ron? Your amazing defensive system??? Haha

Sorry not sure why I quoted you. Hah

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

It's simple rational business motivation.

He will get paid to talk about his experience. While that may be subjedtive, to make sh@t up will essentially ensure he never gets a gig again.

Think of ex-CEOs, Politicians, Players, Refs, etc. Their ability to generate a long term dollar is based on their credibility. If what he is saying is false, he won't work again and may be sued.

Look, the Leafs absolutely suck. We have been through multiple managers, assistants and GMs. Many of whom have had success before they were here and some after.

At some point we have to put down the player Pom Poms and consider that maybe this "culture" thing that seems to be the common denominator is actually trying to tell us something.

Or not... everyone is lying. No big deal. Players are infallible.

You poor thing

 

[Hockey Talker29]

I quote "always question their motivation and bias."

That's exactly what I did.

Wilson is building the Wilson brand. Get on panels. Paid for interviews. Maybe write a book. What LONG TERM value is there in lying?

None. He would be found out and never cited again as a panelist. End of the cheques.

Honestly, we talk about critical thinking and I appreciate your willingness to question the source. Clearly here, he has everything to lose by lying.

Which lends itself to credible

To be fair, Wilson may not have lied, but he obviously distorted the truth. His quote was that Kadri never listened to him. It's obviously a massive exaggeration, seeing as how Kadri obviously listened to Wilson far more often than not. He showed up to practice, and games. He took shifts when Wilson said it was his turn, and he came off when his shift was over.

As for what Kadri did...he turned the puck over. Ever player in the NHL will turn it over dozens of times in a season, let alone a rookie. I don't even look at it as a negative. Giveaways mean very little in this context. Kadri is a great possession player. Wilson's opinion is wrong.

So, basically, he didn't lie outright. His comment just makes very little logical sense. And if his point is that Kadri is a bad possession player because he turns the puck over...well, sorry, but Ron is dead wrong on that.

 

[Red Piller]

Why dont you guys hold your players accountable? Why is it constant excuses? Yes Ron Wilson could have used more tact than he did, but the fact remains, he worked with the kid and knows him. Hold players accountable for their actions, or in this case, non actions.

I think that is part of the problem here, is there is zero accountability, and its rotting your team from the inside out. You should be furious you have guys on your team like that, but instead its the opposite.

 

[Pookie]

To be fair, Wilson may not have lied, but he obviously distorted the truth. His quote was that Kadri never listened to him. It's obviously a massive exaggeration, seeing as how Kadri obviously listened to Wilson far more often than not. He showed up to practice, and games. He took shifts when Wilson said it was his turn, and he came off when his shift was over.

As for what Kadri did...he turned the puck over. Ever player in the NHL will turn it over dozens of times in a season, let alone a rookie. I don't even look at it as a negative. Giveaways mean very little in this context. Kadri is a great possession player. Wilson's opinion is wrong.

So, basically, he didn't lie outright. His comment just makes very little logical sense. And if his point is that Kadri is a bad possession player because he turns the puck over...well, sorry, but Ron is dead wrong on that.

If Wilson meant he told Kadri to put it deep and Kadri instead carried it across the blue line trying to beat 3 guys we can infer that Kadri didn't listen... can't we?

 

[HometownHockey]

Leafs' fans better hope Don Cherry is wrong about Nazem Kadri

Leafs' fans better hope Don Cherry is wrong about Nazem Kadri

The last week or so in Leafs’ land has centred around Nazem Kadri and his “embarrassing†and “humiliating†suspension for being late, and speculated off-ice issues. Kadri missed 3 games, those being against the Islanders, Sabres and Flames, and since managements decision to sit him all we have heard about is whether or not it was the right thing to do. The speculation hit full swing when Don Cherry said that Kadri would leave in 2 years as a result of being “ridiculed and humiliated†by the Leafs decision to sit him. In the wake of Don’s comments on Hockey Night in Canada, Leafs nation’s response has been rather blase. Leafs’ fans needs to wake up and realize that Kadri’s departure at any point in the next 3 years would be a massive set back to the recently embarked upon rebuild. That being said, I’m not as confident as Don that Nazem is sprinting for the door.

READ MORE, HometownHockey.ca...
http://www.hometownhockey.ca/hockey/TOR0083.php

 

[Pookie]

Leafs' fans better hope Don Cherry is wrong about Nazem Kadri

The last week or so in Leafs’ land has centred around Nazem Kadri and his “embarrassing†and “humiliating†suspension for being late, and speculated off-ice issues. Kadri missed 3 games, those being against the Islanders, Sabres and Flames, and since managements decision to sit him all we have heard about is whether or not it was the right thing to do. The speculation hit full swing when Don Cherry said that Kadri would leave in 2 years as a result of being “ridiculed and humiliated†by the Leafs decision to sit him. In the wake of Don’s comments on Hockey Night in Canada, Leafs nation’s response has been rather blase. Leafs’ fans needs to wake up and realize that Kadri’s departure at any point in the next 3 years would be a massive set back to the recently embarked upon rebuild. That being said, I’m not as confident as Don that Nazem is sprinting for the door.

READ MORE, HometownHockey.ca...
http://www.hometownhockey.ca/hockey/TOR0083.php

Oh please. A massive set back to the team that could contend in 2016 for last place even with Kadri?

Replaceable.

 

[Deez Nuts]

It's amazing how everybody is ripping Wilson yet every hockey coach and GM within the Leafs organization has seen first hand various problems/issues with Kadri ever since he was drafted. Wilson, Carlyle, Burke, Horacheck and Shanahan have all publicly stated that Kadri does not listen, has nasty habits and has entitlement issues. Obviously we have no clue what is happening behind the scenes, but clearly something is wrong with this guy. For someone who is playing for a long-term contract, you would think that would be enough incentive for him to play with some intensity on a consistent basis amd show up on time to team meetings. Even though Shanny said he is a core piece, I seriously doubt his 40 pts, inconsistent effort, sub par FO%, tendency for turnovers, questionable work ethic are traits that fit with the Leafs rebuild. Kadri himself said he could be in the same league as Tavares if he had the same work ethic, which shows his questionable desire and motivation to get better.

 

[Pookie]

It's amazing how everybody is ripping Wilson yet every hockey coach and GM within the Leafs organization has seen first hand various problems/issues with Kadri ever since he was drafted. Wilson, Carlyle, Burke, Horacheck and Shanahan have all publicly stated that Kadri does not listen, has nasty habits and has entitlement issues. Obviously we have no clue what is happening behind the scenes, but clearly something is wrong with this guy. For someone who is playing for a long-term contract, you would think that would be enough incentive for him to play with some intensity on a consistent basis amd show up on time to team meetings. Even though Shanny said he is a core piece, I seriously doubt his 40 pts, inconsistent effort, sub par FO%, tendency for turnovers, questionable work ethic are traits that fit with the Leafs rebuild. Kadri himself said he could be in the same league as Tavares if he had the same work ethic, which shows his questionable desire and motivation to get better.

Too logical dude. You best be careful with those well thought out discussion points.

 

[ECanuck]

Why dont you guys hold your players accountable? Why is it constant excuses? Yes Ron Wilson could have used more tact than he did, but the fact remains, he worked with the kid and knows him. Hold players accountable for their actions, or in this case, non actions.

I think that is part of the problem here, is there is zero accountability, and its rotting your team from the inside out. You should be furious you have guys on your team like that, but instead its the opposite.

Well, we are disappointed. I'm not sure I'd be furious at the situation. At 24 I'd make Kadri look like a saint and and astute student. We should be doing a better job at steering our drafted and talented youth in the right direction. I can't stand the too skinny and then too fat yoyoing around. Plus this organization is in no shape to be messing up on their young talent.

 

[Red Piller]

It's amazing how everybody is ripping Wilson yet every hockey coach and GM within the Leafs organization has seen first hand various problems/issues with Kadri ever since he was drafted. Wilson, Carlyle, Burke, Horacheck and Shanahan have all publicly stated that Kadri does not listen, has nasty habits and has entitlement issues. Obviously we have no clue what is happening behind the scenes, but clearly something is wrong with this guy. For someone who is playing for a long-term contract, you would think that would be enough incentive for him to play with some intensity on a consistent basis amd show up on time to team meetings. Even though Shanny said he is a core piece, I seriously doubt his 40 pts, inconsistent effort, sub par FO%, tendency for turnovers, questionable work ethic are traits that fit with the Leafs rebuild. Kadri himself said he could be in the same league as Tavares if he had the same work ethic, which shows his questionable desire and motivation to get better.

This is true, he was the same way in London. Hunter benched him repeatedly for that kind of behavior, to try to right the ship. It apparently didnt work. You have to ask yourselves, is this a guy we want as part of the core going forward? He is not that entire problem, but he sure is a part of it.

 

[Gallagbi]

Oh please. A massive set back to the team that could contend in 2016 for last place even with Kadri?

Replaceable.

You keep repeating that last word like it is relevant. Everyone is replaceable

 

[Red Piller]

Well, we are disappointed. I'm not sure I'd be furious at the situation. At 24 I'd make Kadri look like a saint and and astute student. We should be doing a better job at steering our drafted and talented youth in the right direction. I can't stand the too skinny and then too fat yoyoing around. Plus this organization is in no shape to be messing up on their young talent.

I can get on board with that, HOWEVER, you are not a pro athlete. There is a difference between a pro athlete at 24 and some guy on the street at 24. The leadership on your team has totally failed, and its resulted in a team wide failure. If it were me (and its not) i would look at other options. Trading the kid for someone of a similar ilk. Im sure there would be takers. It is time for fresh blood, from management all the way down.