Sportsnet: JVR has net positive NHL metrics

[Trapper]

I can't help but think running a whole team to shelter Marner isn't the smart move. He could be valuable in a trade if it comes to that. We have lots of wingers.

Does every team have a glut of wingers ?

Marner would need to return a Provorov or we just wouldn't entertain it.
Marner will be a star IMO, I giving him the benefit of the doubt at 20 that he is just having a Murphy's Law year. Everything that can go wrong will. He was much more defensively responsible for the Knights than he is showing. He killed penalties and played in every situation. Everyone needs help and right now, Bozak isn't even providing that. Even Kadri has Komarov.

 

[Gary Nylund]

nice send it to the other 30 GM's ASAP, "see he isn't THAT bad". Trade him

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Marner would need to return a Provorov or we just wouldn't entertain it.
Marner will be a star IMO, I giving him the benefit of the doubt at 20 that he is just having a Murphy's Law year. Everything that can go wrong will. He was much more defensively responsible for the Knights than he is showing. He killed penalties and played in every situation. Everyone needs help and right now, Bozak isn't even providing that. Even Kadri has Komarov.

I want him to do well.
I think he will.
But he's not shining bright in the coach's eyes.

 

[Trapper]

I want him to do well.
I think he will.
But he's not shining bright in the coach's eyes.

I think he will too.
Memorial Cup winner/MVP.
Bozak/JVR have nothing on Mitch.
Kadri was a trainwreck too at times. The same criticisms apply. To small, not strong enough, no D, and on. He just turned 20, we aren't even at that conversation yet.

 

[thewave]

I think he will too.
Memorial Cup winner/MVP.
Bozak/JVR have nothing on Mitch.
Kadri was a trainwreck too at times. The same criticisms apply. To small, not strong enough, no D, and on. He just turned 20, we aren't even at that conversation yet.

I wouldn't trade Marner unless the deal was huge(Stud D). I would just keep playing him at his level, sheltering him and hope he does like Kadri. The bright side is that he will get paid in the 4- 5m range rather than 7m range. That's great.

Suddenly 22m for the 3 is more of a reality.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

He just turned 20,

Nice hairdo.

He's put on 15 lbs of muscle since his draft year ?

Are the players allowed to put any number down for their weight ?

What did Pablo Sandoval's baseball card say ? 199 lbs ?

 

[thewave]

pretty good article.
Shows the stats on his defence aren't counting out his great offence.

https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/...ronto-maple-leafs-analysis-maple-leafs-roster

Great work the ever amazing PPP. Great stuff, but when they get to Leivo they should have added that sometimes players that do just alright in the AHL, do great in the NHL. Not common but happens and is why we all want to see him try.

 

[Trapper]

View attachment 82053

Nice hairdo.


Are the players allowed to put any number down for their weight ?

What did Pablo Sandoval's baseball card say ? 199 lbs ?

Remember 2 years ago when he tried to put weight on to much to soon. Had a horrible start to the year?
He's put on 15 lbs of muscle since his draft year ? Marner still looks 12 years old and no more than 160 lbs. Kind of like Kadri did for about 5 years.

 

[Menzinger]

Interesting read.

When it comes to JVR v Bozak I've had less issue with JVR - he comes exactly as advertised, an offensive winger whose capable of producing very well.

Bozak is the bigger issue because he's just as bad defensively bit plays a position that's supposed to have a way bigger defensive role. So rather than help offset JVr's flaws he amplifies them.

Stick JVR with better defensive linemates to cover for him he becomes less an issue

 

[MJ65]

pretty good article.
Shows the stats on his defence aren't counting out his great offence.

https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/...ronto-maple-leafs-analysis-maple-leafs-roster

Good article to convince 30 other GMs to take him - honestly speaking is not such a big problem if playing with a better 2 way "C". Bozak is just not fit to either create any offense or play any defense

 

[Field of Dreams]

I love JVR, he's a great player, and an important part of this group.

However

He is a luxury we will not be able to afford when we have to spend 28m+ on the big 3 if we wish to have a half decent defense budget.

That's not the end of the world, we have a plethora of young, hungry prospects on the wing who can replace a good portion of his production while on an entry level deal.

The prudent thing to do would be to exchange him for futures or trade him to address a need elsewhere on the roster.

 

[The CyNick]

It's funny the impact of some random article on a website that people frequent.

Took this article for people in this thread to realize it's valuable to nearly 30 goals year in and year out.

 

[thewave]

Jvr with Bergeron on is a + player with no defensive problems. Same with Matthews etc. You wouldn't notice his problems with the right C. If Marleau can still play the position then we may see a whole new JVR.

 

[PromisedLand]

bozak and jvr are apparently on different lines tonight; if that could hold for a few games; I think we have enough sample size to determine how much of it was bozak and how much of it was jvr

 

[tmlfan98]

I'm in the camp that thinks we should re-sign JVR because the type of offence he brings cannot currently be immediately replaced by someone in the system.

As for Bozak I'm calling it now, he's destined to reunite with Kessel in Pittsburgh. And to that I say good riddance.

 

[PromisedLand]

pretty good article.
Shows the stats on his defence aren't counting out his great offence.

https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/...ronto-maple-leafs-analysis-maple-leafs-roster

btw QoC should be accounted for that analytics as well; being sheltered as a vet while leaving the heavy lifting to youngsters?

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm in the camp that thinks we should re-sign JVR because the type of offence he brings cannot currently be immediately replaced by someone in the system.

As for Bozak I'm calling it now, he's destined to reunite with Kessel in Pittsburgh. And to that I say good riddance.

I'm in the camp that thinks we should resign JVR if it can be done for the right price and term but the odds of getting him for something like 2-3 years at 4.5-5m are slim to none. As for replacing him, we really don't need to. Every team in NHL history that has won the Stanley Cup has done so without JVR and if he wasn't needed the first 99 times, I see no reason to think he'd be needed now.

As for Bozak reuniting with Kessel, many people have been calling that for some time now. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[PromisedLand]

I'm in the camp that thinks we should resign JVR if it can be done for the right price and term but the odds of getting him for something like 2-3 years at 4.5-5m are slim to none. As for replacing him, we really don't need to. Every team in NHL history that has won the Stanley Cup has done so without JVR and if he wasn't needed the first 99 times, I see no reason to think he'd be needed now.

As for Bozak reuniting with Kessel, many people have been calling that for some time now. We'll just have to wait and see.

am expecting with Bonino leaving pens to make a splash at the TDL to run

Crosby line
Malkin line
Kessel line

in the playoffs

 

[BlueForever75]

JVR is a great player one that everyone on this board will eventually complain we don't have anymore when they all get their wishes and he is dealt for a replacement caliber player. Mark my words.

 

[Al14]

JVR is a great player one that everyone on this board will eventually complain we don't have anymore when they all get their wishes and he is dealt for a replacement caliber player. Mark my words.

Haven't you heard? Leivo replaces him easily according to many posters on here!

I wouldn't trade JvR unless he's part of a package that gets us a true #1 D. Nothing less. JMHO.

 

[The CyNick]

I'm in the camp that thinks we should re-sign JVR because the type of offence he brings cannot currently be immediately replaced by someone in the system.

As for Bozak I'm calling it now, he's destined to reunite with Kessel in Pittsburgh. And to that I say good riddance.

The problem with that is we have very little centre depth in the organization.

It would be a major help if Marleau works down the middle. Then you don't have to rely on breaking up Matthews and Nylander. I know a lot of people are bullish on Nylander as a centre, but he's a second year NHLer who has never played centre in the NHL. It's tough to break up a dynamite line to potentially put one of the players in a bad position. If Marleau works, it's much easier to trade Bozak, or just let him ride out his deal on the fourth line. Gives us even better depth.

As for Pitt as a landing spot for Bozak, I think they're right to the cap. Don't know who they would send back that we would want.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Haven't you heard? Leivo replaces him easily according to many posters on here!

I wouldn't trade JvR unless he's part of a package that gets us a true #1 D. Nothing less. JMHO.

I don't think anyone has said that. What's been said is that they don't have to replace JVR's production. Having a guy that puts up less points, but plays a better two-way game is just as valuable.

 

[Pookie]

Assuming Corsi is an actual scientific thing that is highly correlated to results, then this is a good read.

Given that it isn't. It's just part of the conversation

 

[Battle Lin]

his line is being scored on a lot, and i gotta blame my C before my wingers right?

 

[theIceWookie]

saying this is like calling Bozak a 50 point C. JVR has done that exactly 1 time, he has another season of 60 points too (29g-33a) to be fair. But if doing something once is proven Kulemin is a 30 goal scorer

The parallel to Kulemin is an odd hyperbole to use. Real odd. I understand the point but the two situations aren't comparable at all.

As a Leaf, JVR has never scored at less than a 27 goal pace. His first season as a Leaf was the lockout shortened season where he put up 18 goals for a 30 goal pace. Then scored 30, then 27, then 14 in 40 (which is just over a 28 goal pace) and then 29 last year. In terms of consistency, that's pretty damn consistent, and you're splitting hairs at not calling him a 30 goal guy. A guy under 30 scoring for a MINIMUM 27 goal pace is a 30 goal for all intents and purposes. His lowest point pace has been 55 (his first season with the Leafs) since joining the Leafs. And he's hit 60 twice. For all intents and purposes, he's a 60 point winger.

Bozak is also for all intents and purposes, a 50 point center. His career point pace is for a pace of 50 points over 500 games. That alone gives him a strong argument for being a 50 point center. He's also hit 47 points once, 49 twice, and 55 last year. His third seasons he paced 50 points in the lockout season (28 point in 46 games being good for a pace 49.9 points), and then did it again in an injury shortened season in 2015-2016 with 35 points in 57 games. He's paced for a MINIMUM of 47 points in every season but his rookie season. And he's paced for a MINIMUM of 49 points in every season since his sophomore season. That is a 50 point center.

JVR and Bozak get such little respect from some Leaf fans its ridiculous. They're both good players. JVR is a 60 point player and Bozak is a 50 point center