Value of: JVR + Gardiner as a package
- Thread starter schenneuf
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Glenn Isildur Healy
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Man Bear Pig
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Except no, no its not. What exactly has Sprong done that makes him so valuable to so many people? Because he had first round talent and slipped?
Number1RedWingsFan52
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It would take more then JVR+Gardiner to get either one of Ekblad or OEL. Try adding at least Nylander as a starter or Marner.
Regardless Maatta has top pairing potential while Gardiner is a clear 2nd pairing man. I'm a little higher on Sprong then you, but even if I wasn't, Maatta is a lot to trade. JVR is a good piece but Pittsburghs offense is pretty solid, with two forwards inarguably the top 10 in the league (Crosby top 3), Kessel, Hagelin, Hornqvist, Bonino and top tier bottom 6 talent with lots of young players in the mix. Besides that he is due a good raise in 2018 while Maatta is signed until 2022, and beyond that, I'm fairly sure the Penguins don't have room, now or in the future, to take on 8M in cap that JVR and Gardiner will cost
CamelToews
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PG Canuck
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Kelly
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Do you seriously have a problem with that?
Gardiner outproduced him at the same age, now, has better advanced statistics and Maatta hasn't played a full season due to injuries since coming into the league. I know I'll get heat for this but I don't get the hype for Maatta. Still young but meh, I'll keep Gardiner.
Why on earth would a 27 year old forward with 2 years left until UFA be "not available"??? Especially with the amount of raises their RFAs will require.
Why would an overrated overpaid 26 year old defender in Gardiner be "not available"? He just got put in the dog house and played the 5th most minutes on the league's worst blue line. Why? Repeated mistakes causing many goals.
You seem to be missing the point of what makes a player untouchable. On the leafs, it's Rielly, Marner, Matthews, and Nylander. That's about it.
Advanced... statistics.... what about his absolutely direct statistics which are all poor?
-He's an offensive defenseman who physically has not been able to eclipse 31 points while being deployed in tons of offensive zone situations relative to his peers. Is this not evidence?
-He's -38 in the past 2 seasons alone. Is this not evidence?
-He only averaged the 4th most ice time (of D) on the leagues worst blue line last season (worst GA and shot suppression). Is this not evidence? Oh maybe that particular coach was horribly mistaken and the fanbois were right.....
-He is currently 5th!!!!! in ice time on again, the leagues worst blueline. He's literally not even a top-4 option on the worst blueline in the NHL as determined by the best coach in the league. There's been multipole different coaches now who either don't or barely deploy him as a #4 on, yup, the worst D in the NHL. Is this not evidence?
Gardiner supporters are taking advanced stats way too directly and literally and that's all they can cling to. Let's remind everyone, corsi "TENDS" to "POSSIBLY" indicate a player's puck possession skills. It in no way is a direct measure of possession, talent, or impact on the result. It measures shot attempt gradients, which is not possession. Jake Gardiner's team may fire more pucks towards the net than the opponent does when he's on the ice, but that will never mean much considering his flaws: a really low hockey IQ for the position of defense and a ton of mistakes leading to goals and high negative plus/minus while creating an illusion of something more with his style of play.
SLAMS THE JUDGES MALLET
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A1LeafNation
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Your entire post could have just been "I don't understand statistics".
For example - "advanced stats" are direct statistics. They are literally what happened.
Corsi - it is used as a proxy for possession because it was tested, and it matches up almost 100% to time of possession.
+/- measures how good your team and goalie are. Lidstrom was once a minus, but I don't think you would say it's because he's bad.
You calling him an offensive defenseman doesn't mean anything. I can call him a space wizard. But in terms of actual play, he's a defensive defenseman. In terms of DIRECT stats, when he is on the ice, the team gives up less shots and less goals. That sounds like really good defenseman to me.
Trouba isn't welcome in Toronto (or most NHL teams). Do you think Lou and other GMs want a disguruntled former RFA in their dressing room. Upcoming RFAs would learn it is acceptable to hold out (or at least not sign) and get force a trade.
There is a reason Trouba hasn't been traded. A player coming of ELC and demanding a trade is one, and Trouba....is he really that good? I have nothing against Trouba not resigning in Winnipeg, but he and his agent should have been more prepared for the "not signing" outcome.
Offer sheet has not come (as far as we know)
KHL/SHL option (less money)
Street hockey with friends in Detroit (no money)
There is a reason Trouba hasn't been traded. A player coming of ELC and demanding a trade is one, and Trouba....is he really that good? I have nothing against Trouba not resigning in Winnipeg, but he and his agent should have been more prepared for the "not signing" outcome.
Offer sheet has not come (as far as we know)
KHL/SHL option (less money)
Street hockey with friends in Detroit (no money)
