The Iceman
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- Sep 22, 2007
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Justin Holl
- Thread starter Stephen
- Start date
Dreakmur
Registered User
Holl was good for like 10 games last year. He has otherwise been carried by Muzzin.
Black hat blue eyes
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- Jul 21, 2015
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2 Slick
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Griffin76
Registered User
He was good right up to the 3 game set with Edmonton where "HE shut down McDavid and the Oilers"
I think that may have been somewhere in the 15 to 20 game area. But you are correct. It was all downholl 
from there.Jared McCann for another option at center could have been a game-changer for this team.
Hallander for McCann was probably my favorite trade I've seen Dubas make but apparently his talent evaluation is so shit he couldn't see he acquired a better player than both Holl and Kerfoot.
I watched him a bit with Pittsburgh last year too - the guy's actually pretty damn good.
tmlfan98
No More Excuses #MarnerOut
The funniest thing about this healthy scratch is that most of us knew it was coming, except for Dubass and Dubasites. Holl has had his entire career made thus far by being attached at the hip to Jake Muzzin, our best dmen and somehow still one of the most underrated dmen in the league even though he plays for the Leafs. Now that Muzz has had to play hurt we see what Holl is really made of, which is nothing.
And Dubass actually thought we didn't need to protect McCann over Holl, even though 2 of our biggest problems since the big 3 extensions kicked in have been secondary scoring and centre depth. The 1M AAV or less mercenaries we sign every year are not enough. But no, Dubass is perfectly fine stunting the development of Sandin, Liljegren and Dermott by protecting a guy who is nothing without Jake Muzzin beside him, and continuing to cycle these mediocre mercenaries.
And Dubass actually thought we didn't need to protect McCann over Holl, even though 2 of our biggest problems since the big 3 extensions kicked in have been secondary scoring and centre depth. The 1M AAV or less mercenaries we sign every year are not enough. But no, Dubass is perfectly fine stunting the development of Sandin, Liljegren and Dermott by protecting a guy who is nothing without Jake Muzzin beside him, and continuing to cycle these mediocre mercenaries.
DraftSchmaft
Registered User
- Jul 29, 2021
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Disagree. They were like 2 weeks of top pairing shutdown play that buys him a season long leash of being mediocre. It's exactly how he got his contract. This guy pulls a stretch (like 10 games) of looking like Adam Foote and Dubas fell for it
I'm not saying he's the reason....but there is a correlation between Holl being in the top 4 and embarrassing, need to hide my face for a year playoff type losses.
Hainsey is a Norris winner compared to Holl.
Player Coach and GM Austin Mathews outwardly disgusted with Holl last game - = Healthy Scratch
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Lets call a spade a spade - He was Cheap and willing to sign ... Thats all Dubas could afford .
SeaOfBlue
The Passion That Unites Us All
- Aug 1, 2013
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McCann has a 21% shooting percentage right now and 2/4 of his assists are on Brandon Tanev goals, who has a 33% shooting percentage. Add in the fact that he is not generating a lot of chances while also giving up a lot of chances, he is in line for a major regression.
Just like Matthews is almost certainly going to have better than a 4% shooting percentage after putting up 18.5% last year and having 16% in his career.
People need to stop pretending like McCann is playing like a near-PPG player, because he is not. If he was playing in the top 6 with the way Matthews/Marner playing like they were, I wouldn't be surprised if he has the same stat-line that Ritchie is currently sporting.
Just like Matthews is almost certainly going to have better than a 4% shooting percentage after putting up 18.5% last year and having 16% in his career.
People need to stop pretending like McCann is playing like a near-PPG player, because he is not. If he was playing in the top 6 with the way Matthews/Marner playing like they were, I wouldn't be surprised if he has the same stat-line that Ritchie is currently sporting.
Leafs should win this game now pretty easy with Holl out of lineup .. I had Holl down for another 2 goals against .. it took Matty to call him out .. pretty bad coaching when you can't see it for yourself .. Dubie has lost control of da nest folks
Holl needs to wake up. He's a better defensemen than what he has shown this year. I'm hoping this sounds the alarm in his head and he gets his shit in order.
If not, chalk it up in the L column and move on. Would we like to have the expansion protection back? ya probably. But c'est la vie. It really isn't setting our club back years.
Jared McCann is producing in an expanded role. One of which he may or may not have gotten here. I was pretty upset with letting him walk over Holl/Dermott as well, but it is what it is. Realistically we are not a juggernaut with McCann either.
If not, chalk it up in the L column and move on. Would we like to have the expansion protection back? ya probably. But c'est la vie. It really isn't setting our club back years.
Jared McCann is producing in an expanded role. One of which he may or may not have gotten here. I was pretty upset with letting him walk over Holl/Dermott as well, but it is what it is. Realistically we are not a juggernaut with McCann either.
DarkKnight
Professional Amateur
- Jan 17, 2017
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Bold move, also right move. The guy handles the puck like a grenade now, needs a reset.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
He's definitely a better player than how's he's played this season.
The guy spent the bulk of his pro career fighting for a spot. Needs to regain that mindset, stop making dumb plays and get some bite back into his game
The guy spent the bulk of his pro career fighting for a spot. Needs to regain that mindset, stop making dumb plays and get some bite back into his game
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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Think McCann would have fit hand in glove with what the Leafs are trying to do up front. Would have loved to have seen Toronto work out a side deal for Seattle to take Kerfoot and enjoy that upgrade. Holl's struggles means it wouldn't make much of a difference if we were playing Liljegren fill time in a trial by fire type scenario.
Havoc
Registered User
- Jul 25, 2009
- 7,305
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I'd even take his end to end Erik Karlsson days back over whatever this is. I remember when this guy was competing with Nylander for most zone entry attempts
I do like Holl when he can find that middle ground between trying too hard and trying too...dumb? Agree with others who say Holls best work only lasts around 10 games.
usernamezrhardtodo
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- Mar 26, 2014
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I think his problem this year more than anything is that he thinks he is some kind of offensive dynamo. He is always pinching down the wall and in the o-zone corners. That shouldn't happen when both D-men are slow as molasses. He made that extra doodle at the blueline and made AM go offside...you could see him shake his head at the stupidity. Just shoot the fricken puck in..that's all your capable of.
ottomaddox
Registered User
Tomorrow will mark the first time since Babcock was coach that Holl is a healthy scratch.
It's warranted because he hasn't played well. Muzzin too is struggling.
Hard to believe he's gone from significant minutes on the 2nd pairing (in a shut down role), to a healthy scratch.
Do you think he'll respond well to this demotion, or do you see him finding the waiver wire?
It's warranted because he hasn't played well. Muzzin too is struggling.
Hard to believe he's gone from significant minutes on the 2nd pairing (in a shut down role), to a healthy scratch.
Do you think he'll respond well to this demotion, or do you see him finding the waiver wire?
dubplatepressure
Registered User
- Jul 10, 2007
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It's not hard to believe - it happens all the time with players - they gain and lose form.
At this point I think a smarter plan is to give the GP investment to Dermott, Sandin, and Lilly, and see how the team does with a stretch of 10 ish games.
At this point I think a smarter plan is to give the GP investment to Dermott, Sandin, and Lilly, and see how the team does with a stretch of 10 ish games.
