Just hold on a minute....

[Leafspoison*]

The entire hockey world is into this "rebuild" thing.

The boards are blowing up in about 20 different sites. Trade this guy for that, trade that guy for this.

The media with the "scorched earth" thing.

Do you know who hasn't said anything about a total rebuild? The Leafs management.

Not Nonis, not Dubas, not Hunter, not Shanahan, not that other guy.....no one.

So Nonis trades some UFA's and you all think its in full swing rebuild?

The Leafs got some good pieces for some UFA's we had. We have 2 or 3 more that he can move also.

Because we are sellers for a change at the deadline don't mean squat.

The deadline is 2 days away, and guess what? This entire core that we had is still in place. Not one top 6 player has been moved and even Lupul said it has not been passed down from the top that any pieces were going to be dealt.

Is Nonis fielding any calls from other teams? Sure he is, but guess what....so are about 29 other teams.

Btw, Nonis is no genius. Every GM out there could have made the moves Nonis did to get some pieces. But the Clarkson deal fell right into Nonis's lap and all he had to do was utter the word "Yes" to complete that deal. He is just not smart enough to think of a deal like that. He's not.

All that said, can anyone show me a spec of evidence that the Leafs said something somewhere that there in a full rebuild and not just selling some pieces that are going to be UFA anyway?

If the main core of this team is still here Tuesday, then the place will explode. The only hockey trade that may happen is Bozak IMO.

Then the lottery will come and pass and we will be at draft time. Do you know how many deals Nonis has made on draft day.....? Zero. He has never been a draft day GM. Burke was, but not Nonis.

I think Nonis will get fleeced by some of these other GM's in the league on draft day.

We will start next season with basically the same core, and there is not a darn thing anyone here can do about it. We have been down this dirt road for the last 20 years. Nothing has changed and nothing will change.

Click to read more...

 

[waingr0]

Dubas mentioned rebuild in an interview with sportsnet.

 

[Apotheosis]

Hold your horses there pal.

This is exactly how a rebuild starts. You shed yourself of all the expiring UFA's before the TDL and the core gradually goes (Kessel and Dion are gone latest, in the offseason). I'm almost completely sure Dubas confirmed at the Conn Smythe dinner that we are in rebuild mode. This isn't NHL 2015. You can't trade everyone you want on a whim. The deals so far have been good and there are more to come.

 

[Northern Dancer]

The entire hockey world is into this "rebuild" thing.

The boards are blowing up in about 20 different sites. Trade this guy for that, trade that guy for this.

The media with the "scorched earth" thing.

Do you know who hasn't said anything about a total rebuild? The Leafs management.

Not Nonis, not Dubas, not Hunter, not Shanahan, not that other guy.....no one.

So Nonis trades some UFA's and you all think its in full swing rebuild?

The Leafs got some good pieces for some UFA's we had. We have 2 or 3 more that he can move also.

Because we are sellers for a change at the deadline don't mean squat.

The deadline is 2 days away, and guess what? This entire core that we had is still in place. Not one top 6 player has been moved and even Lupul said it has not been passed down from the top that any pieces were going to be dealt.

Is Nonis fielding any calls from other teams? Sure he is, but guess what....so are about 29 other teams.

Btw, Nonis is no genius. Every GM out there could have made the moves Nonis did to get some pieces. But the Clarkson deal fell right into Nonis's lap and all he had to do was utter the word "Yes" to complete that deal. He is just not smart enough to think of a deal like that. He's not.

All that said, can anyone show me a spec of evidence that the Leafs said something somewhere that there in a full rebuild and not just selling some pieces that are going to be UFA anyway?

If the main core of this team is still here Tuesday, then the place will explode. The only hockey trade that may happen is Bozak IMO.

Then the lottery will come and pass and we will be at draft time. Do you know how many deals Nonis has made on draft day.....? Zero. He has never been a draft day GM. Burke was, but not Nonis.

I think Nonis will get fleeced by some of these other GM's in the league on draft day.

We will start next season with basically the same core, and there is not a darn thing anyone here can do about it. We have been down this dirt road for the last 20 years. Nothing has changed and nothing will change.

Go pour yourself a stiff Johnny Walker Black, that should cheer you up.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

There was a very publicized report that said Shanahan got Board approval for a scorched earth plan. Dealing Clarkson and losing $27m is a clear example.

 

[Leafspoison*]

Hold your horses there pal.

This is exactly how a rebuild starts. You shed yourself of all the expiring UFA's before the TDL and the core gradually goes (Kessel and Dion are gone latest, in the offseason). I'm almost completely sure Dubas confirmed at the Conn Smythe dinner that we are in rebuild mode. This isn't NHL 2015. You can't trade everyone you want on a whim. The deals so far have been good and there are more to come.

Dubas is a 27 year old kid, put in a very executive position....with no trading power. He was brought in here because of analytics. Nothing more.

And no, I heard that interview and he did not say "we are in full rebuild mode". He muttered around the idea of teams in the NHL rebuilding and then alluded in the next sentence that the Leafs are going to make some moves. So then the world thinks it means the Leafs are in full rebuild mode, which was not said at all.

 

[Leafspoison*]

There was a very publicized report that said Shanahan got Board approval for a scorched earth plan. Dealing Clarkson and losing $27m is a clear example.

Nope, the media said that.

 

[Daisy Jane]

There was a very publicized report that said Shanahan got Board approval for a scorched earth plan. Dealing Clarkson and losing $27m is a clear example.

there are some people who believe that because the Leafs haven't stepped up and said "yes, everyone, we are rebuilding!" that rebuilding isn't going to happen, esp. because of the past.

[there are other people who won't believe it until certain players are 100 percent gone]. so (shrug) i dunno.

 

[Menzinger]

It's somewhat unrealistic to expect big salaried guys like Kessel/Phaneuf to be moved by the deadline for cap reasons. Trades like that almost always happen in the offseason where teams are more flexible.

There was a very publicized report that said Shanahan got Board approval for a scorched earth plan. Dealing Clarkson and losing $27m is a clear example.

Yep - a globe and mail article too, this wasn't just a twitter rumor.

 

[Stand Witness]

Dubas is a 27 year old kid, put in a very executive position....with no trading power. He was brought in here because of analytics. Nothing more.

And no, I heard that interview and he did not say "we are in full rebuild mode". He muttered around the idea of teams in the NHL rebuilding and then alluded in the next sentence that the Leafs are going to make some moves. So then the world thinks it means the Leafs are in full rebuild mode, which was not said at all.

Not going to try and convince you on something you want to ignore but if you think Dubas is here with no power than you are wrong. He is an AGM and does the same thing any other AGM would do.

 

[Nylanderthal]

If you come out and say everyone's gone you kill what little perceived leverage you might have..... My thoughts are this might not be a total strip it to the bones but I see a lot of the "core" gone. Lupul, Bozak, Phaneuf, all easily goners by next training camp, and maybe one of JVR or kessel. I'd move JVR first to be honest.

 

[Leafspoison*]

Not going to try and convince you on something you want to ignore but if you think Dubas is here with no power than you are wrong. He is an AGM and does the same thing any other AGM would do.

So you have given him more responsibility than when Shanahan announced his hiring as an analytics guy? Ok...

I know you guys want a full blown rebuild like yesterday, and so do I. But we will see the evidence within 2 days.

I have a feeling there is going to be a lot of liquor sales Monday evening.

 

[Doug Gilmour]

Can you imagine the media firestorm if management were to come out and publicly say they are overhauling the roster with a full rebuild and not a retool? The fan base and media are impatient and always want results right now and right here. This is gonna be a slow process. Rebuilds start by trading UFAs and then you focus on the moves that make sense for your "stars". I'm all game for this rebuild and don't expect Phaneuf, Kessel or Lupul traded for the sake of making trades, more around draft day and the offseason.

Plus we need this faulty core to keep the tank going in the right direction

 

[Stand Witness]

So you have given him more responsibility than when Shanahan announced his hiring as an analytics guy? Ok...

I know you guys want a full blown rebuild like yesterday, and so do I. But we will see the evidence within 2 days.

I have a feeling there is going to be a lot of liquor sales Monday evening.

Dubas responsibility is AGM of the Toronto Maple Leafs. That includes more than just analytics. Ignore it all you want.

We do want a rebuild, but we understand that the trade deadline is very unlikely to be the start of it. It also has been confirmed by many people with sources that it is happening. You just choose to ignore it which is fine.

 

[Hero]

Not too long ago there was a series of articles that MLSE gave Shanny the okay to rebuild after he came to them asking for permission to do so.

So yes.

 

[FerrisRox]

Do you know who hasn't said anything about a total rebuild? The Leafs management.

Where do you think the "scorched earth" term came from?

 

[FerrisRox]

Dubas is a 27 year old kid, put in a very executive position....with no trading power. He was brought in here because of analytics. Nothing more.

The Leafs staffed their analytics department months before Kyle Dubas was hired. You have zero proof that Kyle Dubas was brought in because of analytics. There's plenty of evidence that he was brought in to be the assistant to the General Manager. For example, his title is "Assistant General Manager." I'm pretty sure if the Assistant GM talks about a rebuild, he's a pretty good source.

 

[Shwaguy*]

Dubas is a 27 year old kid, put in a very executive position....with no trading power. He was brought in here because of analytics. Nothing more.

And no, I heard that interview and he did not say "we are in full rebuild mode". He muttered around the idea of teams in the NHL rebuilding and then alluded in the next sentence that the Leafs are going to make some moves. So then the world thinks it means the Leafs are in full rebuild mode, which was not said at all.

Every GM in every Pro sport is vague to an extent with the media.

 

[jcfogerty]

Dubas is a 27 year old kid, put in a very executive position....with no trading power. He was brought in here because of analytics. Nothing more.

And no, I heard that interview and he did not say "we are in full rebuild mode". He muttered around the idea of teams in the NHL rebuilding and then alluded in the next sentence that the Leafs are going to make some moves. So then the world thinks it means the Leafs are in full rebuild mode, which was not said at all.

i'm with you . a full rebuild would consist of drafting/developing our own picks. Word on the street is we will take young players/prospects in return for trade. Getting rid of UFA's when we have no hope in hell of going anywhere is just smart business, not a rebuild. We are also giving ourselves cap space which can be in turn used to buy assets. Just my 2 coppers.

 

[PhiladelphiaKessel]

For once I believe they are actually going to rebuild this team properly. 75% confident. Moving clarkson and all ufa's was a start and I think we will see some core players move at the draft. We can't expect them to trade everyone we will still need some players/veterans to fill the roster

 

[Daisy Jane]

i'm with you . a full rebuild would consist of drafting/developing our own picks. Word on the street is we will take young players/prospects in return for trade. Getting rid of UFA's when we have no hope in hell of going anywhere is just smart business, not a rebuild. We are also giving ourselves cap space which can be in turn used to buy assets. Just my 2 coppers.

..... yes
because you can't graduate all the marlies.
so you have to get young players/prospects for the transition as well as veteran guys.
while you draft and develop your own. flip and repeat.

 

[colchar]

The entire hockey world is into this "rebuild" thing.

The boards are blowing up in about 20 different sites. Trade this guy for that, trade that guy for this.

The media with the "scorched earth" thing.

Do you know who hasn't said anything about a total rebuild? The Leafs management.

Not Nonis, not Dubas, not Hunter, not Shanahan, not that other guy.....no one.

So Nonis trades some UFA's and you all think its in full swing rebuild?

The Leafs got some good pieces for some UFA's we had. We have 2 or 3 more that he can move also.

Because we are sellers for a change at the deadline don't mean squat.

The deadline is 2 days away, and guess what? This entire core that we had is still in place. Not one top 6 player has been moved and even Lupul said it has not been passed down from the top that any pieces were going to be dealt.

Is Nonis fielding any calls from other teams? Sure he is, but guess what....so are about 29 other teams.

Btw, Nonis is no genius. Every GM out there could have made the moves Nonis did to get some pieces. But the Clarkson deal fell right into Nonis's lap and all he had to do was utter the word "Yes" to complete that deal. He is just not smart enough to think of a deal like that. He's not.

All that said, can anyone show me a spec of evidence that the Leafs said something somewhere that there in a full rebuild and not just selling some pieces that are going to be UFA anyway?

If the main core of this team is still here Tuesday, then the place will explode. The only hockey trade that may happen is Bozak IMO.

Then the lottery will come and pass and we will be at draft time. Do you know how many deals Nonis has made on draft day.....? Zero. He has never been a draft day GM. Burke was, but not Nonis.

I think Nonis will get fleeced by some of these other GM's in the league on draft day.

We will start next season with basically the same core, and there is not a darn thing anyone here can do about it. We have been down this dirt road for the last 20 years. Nothing has changed and nothing will change.

Well glad to see you have it all figured out despite the fact that Dubas has talked openly about it.

And not all of the pieces will be traded by Monday. Some will go at the draft, some will go later. Some might not go until the deadline next year. But over the next 12-18 months they will be gone.

 

[Leaf of the Mind]

The basis of Op's post is he wants something from the front office that never happens ever. If you talk to the worst tanking teams they will always pay lip service to competing for a championship, winning, at the very least challenging for a playoff spot.
They have a responsibility to the tv revenue side of things, season ticket holders, etc.

Just because Kessel, or Phaneuf, or Bozak may still be here is no cause to run around hysterically saying the rebuild is not happening. They can and might be dealt at a future date. Also, if you pretty much believe Nonis will "be fleeced" so vehemently then I guess that's that. If you have your mind made up like that then there's no sense in even caring about what they do next.

 

[colchar]

I know you guys want a full blown rebuild like yesterday, and so do I. But we will see the evidence within 2 days.

The fact that you think it will be done by Monday demonstrates how little you actually understand about a process like this. As someone else said, this isn't NHL 2015 and you cannot just unload everyone immediately. It is a process and that takes time. Come talk to us about this in 12-18 months.

 

[Leafspoison*]

The fact that you think it will be done by Monday demonstrates how little you actually understand about a process like this. As someone else said, this isn't NHL 2015 and you cannot just unload everyone immediately. It is a process and that takes time. Come talk to us about this in 12-18 months.

Naw, I will talk to you in 6 months at the rookie tourney and then the main camp. Kessel will be there plump as ever. Phaneuf will be spouting something about a "fresh start". Kadri will be slow and sluggish and no more talented.

Rielly will be better.