Just 3 years ago...

[Mess]

The Burke Era is something now every Leaf fan regrets having to have been forced to live through.

Its was a very franchise embarrassing time full of many lows.

However Burke's miserable tenure and failure is what lead us to where we are today.

Shanny brilliantly used the past failures to his advantage to convince new ownership that a full "scorched earth" organizational top to bottom purge and draft rebuild was the road to success in the future.

The Shana-plan is what has turned past misery and tears of sorry into a bright future and hopefully tears of joy for Leaf nation.

 

[LeafSadist]

The Burke Era is something now every Leaf fan regrets having to have been forced to live through.

Its was a very franchise embarrassing time full of many lows.

However Burke's miserable tenure and failure is what lead us to where we are today.

Shanny brilliantly used the past failures to his advantage to convince new ownership that a full "scorched earth" organizational top to bottom purge and draft rebuild was the road to success in the future.

The Shana-plan is what has turned past misery and tears of sorry into a bright future and hopefully tears of joy for Leaf nation.

Never say never to a Babcock and Shanny managed team.

 

[Mess]

Never say never to a Babcock and Shanny managed team.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[613Leafer]

It's pretty crazy that the highest paid management team in the league thought it was a good idea to trade two unprotected 1st rounders when their #1C was Stajan, #1G was Toskala, and #1D was Kaberle (good PP QB, but not a #1 guy).

Not only that, but from the prior season going into the next season, they had traded their best forward (Antropov), best minute eating ES defenseman (Kubina), and another top ~4 forward on the team (Moore) .

They had that framework to work with, and thought they could build a contender by trading unprotected 1st rounders, for a winger, the least important position in hockey.

 

[rent free]

i can never stop laughing when i hear about 2015. such a shitshow back then

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The risk is next year. There isn’t a talent injection coming like we saw earlier and we are potentially losing 2/5 on the PP for nothing.

Had they sold those assets last year, we may have replacement prospects that would increase the odds.

Buying rentals and not trading vets for the sake of 6 playoff games veered a little from the plan. That’s what I mean by acceleration.

Matthews accelerated this thing. Rookies that broke practically every record in the book last season and some great drafting and development did it. Trading a couple picks for players at deadline and still having a full docket of picks is not rushing the build.

This young team is just good and coaches well also apparently. Anyone thats been watching closely can see thst our complete team defense has improved quite a lot.

I still see lots of building that needs to happen but that takes time and there are plenty of good players in the system.

 

[Liminality]

This "accelerated" rebuild is due to the fact that the Leafs have insulated the young core with a reliable goaltender and vets to help lead the way. They're not running the team like other teams that have been super slow after their main rebuilds.

This management knows how to create a safe atmosphere and putting them in a position to succeed. I'm glad they've made the appropriate moves that they have so far, it looks like it's been working on the young guys.

Oh and we got pretty lucky getting Matthews too, that accelerated their rebuild.

 

[ShaneFalco]

It's the moves they didn't make that helped too - Josh Georges, Dave Bolland

 

[Tak7]

Matthews accelerated this thing. Rookies that broke practically every record in the book last season and some great drafting and development did it. Trading a couple picks for players at deadline and still having a full docket of picks is not rushing the build.

This young team is just good and coaches well also apparently. Anyone thats been watching closely can see thst our complete team defense has improved quite a lot.

I still see lots of building that needs to happen but that takes time and there are plenty of good players in the system.

Really clever, well thought out post.

Lots of sense here.

Well said Waffle

 

[Mess]

Leafs are yet another example of how building through tanking and high drafting and development is the way to recognizable improvement.

 

[LeafFever]

Leafs are yet another example of how building through tanking and high drafting and development is the way to recognizable improvement.

True by you need an ownership group to agree to it. Not many will.

 

[Mess]

True by you need an ownership group to agree to it. Not many will.

Leafs ownership's problem was always more $$ money than brains when it came to this and Shanny had to convince them that financial sacrifices in the present will be rewarded 10 fold in the future.

 

[Drytoast]

In fairness to both Kessel and Phaneuf, it wasn't their faults.

And if I were Kessel, I'd likely have reacted worse to the stupid offensive questions reporters were asking.

I'm not a fan of Kessel the player, and he certainly was dragging his skates during the tail end there. But I think that there was some secret memo to reporters that they dare not be so combative to this young crop of Leaf players. They likely will never have to deal with "are you hard to coach?" combative questions like Phil had too.

Players should WANT to play here. And if media continue to write stupid made up narratives during losing streaks it doesn't do anybody any good.

I notice that when Matthews is being interviewed, the questions are very delicate. And even then, some stupid ones slip through.

"what is your frustrating level?" really? Who f***ing came up with that? That's your job and that's the best you can come up with? How's about ya just don't ask the kid any questions until there is something to ask, instead of making shit like that up?

Our management and media were the problem, and I think both have been fixed for the most part. I put no blame on the players. They played as best they could.

 

[Daisy Jane]

In fairness to both Kessel and Phaneuf, it wasn't their faults.

And if I were Kessel, I'd likely have reacted worse to the stupid offensive questions reporters were asking.
.

when a report comes out saying you were asked to do something to make the team better, and you say no, then in the same report, it's basically said that the mandate is "leave him alone, all management cares about is his points" and then the coach gets fired on top of the rumours that he wasn't getting along in Boston because of coaching and other issues, I feel that asking the question:

"Do you think you are hard to coach?"

is not offensive. it could have probably been phrased better, but you could also answer it a lot of ways better than how Phil did.

the fact that people feel that players shouldn't get difficult questions (in relation to on the ice performance/lack thereof). but i find a lot of people here like to slag the media so i dunno

 

[ShaneFalco]

I put no blame on the players. They played as best they could.

I remember most of them basically quitting

But I do agree, management put together the team - a cast of characters worse than the Sabres are now.

 

[Gary Nylund]

when a report comes out saying you were asked to do something to make the team better, and you say no, then in the same report, it's basically said that the mandate is "leave him alone, all management cares about is his points" and then the coach gets fired on top of the rumours that he wasn't getting along in Boston because of coaching and other issues, I feel that asking the question:

"Do you think you are hard to coach?"

is not offensive. it could have probably been phrased better, but you could also answer it a lot of ways better than how Phil did.

the fact that people feel that players shouldn't get difficult questions (in relation to on the ice performance/lack thereof). but i find a lot of people here like to slag the media so i dunno

You make some good points but I still think it was a really dumb question. You said it could have probably been phrased better, maybe that's it - it could have been phrased MUCH better. I can't remember how Phil answered it but whatever it was, I doubt I'd have any problem with it. If it was me, my first reaction would be to simply tell the reporter to f... ...

 

[Drytoast]

I remember most of them basically quitting

But I do agree, management put together the team - a cast of characters worse than the Sabres are now.

Yeah and when you do that, of course players are going to give up. You beat them down both on and off the ice? They are only human.

 

[Drytoast]

when a report comes out saying you were asked to do something to make the team better, and you say no, then in the same report, it's basically said that the mandate is "leave him alone, all management cares about is his points" and then the coach gets fired on top of the rumours that he wasn't getting along in Boston because of coaching and other issues, I feel that asking the question:

"Do you think you are hard to coach?"

is not offensive. it could have probably been phrased better, but you could also answer it a lot of ways better than how Phil did.

the fact that people feel that players shouldn't get difficult questions (in relation to on the ice performance/lack thereof). but i find a lot of people here like to slag the media so i dunno

Think about that question for a second. It's slightly loaded and very offensive. And even if he was hard to coach, do you think he's going to say? "gee ya, I'm hard to coach!"?

It would be like going up to OJ and asking him if he murdered his wife.

All you are going to do is shut down the interview and piss off the player. And turn it into a combative situation between the interviewer and the interviewee.

Do I think players should be asked hard questions? Probably not. What's gained from them?

"boy it looked like you really were not skating out there, are you just collecting a paycheck?"

"Remember that play in the second period where you were not covering the front of the net? What's up with that?"

"tell me how frustrating was it that you keep hitting the post?"

"What did you say to ____ when he speared you in the groin, Martin?"

And then there are questions the teams just forbid the players from answering like

"do you think you will need surgery on that shoulder, Auston?"

or

"was it concussion protocol again?"

It's why interviews with players are usually dry and should remain dry. I think they get interviewed WAYYYYYY too often.

On the flip side if a player wants to pull a Sean Avery...go right ahead

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I remember most of them basically quitting

But I do agree, management put together the team - a cast of characters worse than the Sabres are now.

That's a little much at no point were they worse than Buffalo is now

 

[Fogelhund]

In fairness to both Kessel and Phaneuf, it wasn't their faults.

And if I were Kessel, I'd likely have reacted worse to the stupid offensive questions reporters were asking.

I'm not a fan of Kessel the player, and he certainly was dragging his skates during the tail end there. But I think that there was some secret memo to reporters that they dare not be so combative to this young crop of Leaf players. They likely will never have to deal with "are you hard to coach?" combative questions like Phil had too.

Players should WANT to play here. And if media continue to write stupid made up narratives during losing streaks it doesn't do anybody any good.

I notice that when Matthews is being interviewed, the questions are very delicate. And even then, some stupid ones slip through.

"what is your frustrating level?" really? Who ****ing came up with that? That's your job and that's the best you can come up with? How's about ya just don't ask the kid any questions until there is something to ask, instead of making **** like that up?

Our management and media were the problem, and I think both have been fixed for the most part. I put no blame on the players. They played as best they could.

It is not the faults of Kessel, or Phaneuf, that we overpaid them, and tried to make them the cornerstones of the franchise. They just weren't the players to do that with, and you don't build from the wings. So, they needed to go, and we needed to rebuild... we did.

 

[Drytoast]

It is not the faults of Kessel, or Phaneuf, that we overpaid them, and tried to make them the cornerstones of the franchise. They just weren't the players to do that with, and you don't build from the wings. So, they needed to go, and we needed to rebuild... we did.

Exactly.

 

[Fogelhund]

Let's be h0nest, Kessel isn't exactly a Babcock player either. Babcock is all about work, work and more work. Your highest paid player, and one of the leaders, when he isn't like that, will end up being an issue. Kessel has fit in great with Pittsburgh though, doesn't need to be a leader and has won two cups for it. We got better too. Great for both parties.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Think about that question for a second. It's slightly loaded and very offensive. And even if he was hard to coach, do you think he's going to say? "gee ya, I'm hard to coach!"?

It would be like going up to OJ and asking him if he murdered his wife.

All you are going to do is shut down the interview and piss off the player. And turn it into a combative situation between the interviewer and the interviewee.

Do I think players should be asked hard questions? Probably not. What's gained from them?

"boy it looked like you really were not skating out there, are you just collecting a paycheck?"

"Remember that play in the second period where you were not covering the front of the net? What's up with that?"

"tell me how frustrating was it that you keep hitting the post?"

"What did you say to ____ when he speared you in the groin, Martin?"

And then there are questions the teams just forbid the players from answering like

"do you think you will need surgery on that shoulder, Auston?"

or

"was it concussion protocol again?"

It's why interviews with players are usually dry and should remain dry. I think they get interviewed WAYYYYYY too often.

On the flip side if a player wants to pull a Sean Avery...go right ahead

this is why i also said - the question could have been phrased better.
but even looking at the question "bluntly" as it was "are you difficult to coach." you could easily answer it thus "well, (haha) I don't think I am, however, I can see how it could be seen like that. There's always going to be a push/pull relationship between any coach + player and I feel the more talented the player the more push and pull there is, but that's not to say I don't try my best to work with the coach + vice versa,because i do." then go inside, and start kicking the furniture over for the dumbo question.

but each their own

everyone has a job to do. I'm not going to get on sports media for asking questions. could they be better questions. sure. but asking someone if it was concussion protocol, well why should it be forbidden? why not talk about what it's like and bring awareness to the situation. (or just like yah, you know my shoulder hurts, we're all kinda busted right now, i'll probably talk about things with the sports doctors after."

anyway this is deleving way off topic.

 

[hotpaws]

It is not the faults of Kessel, or Phaneuf, that we overpaid them, and tried to make them the cornerstones of the franchise. They just weren't the players to do that with, and you don't build from the wings. So, they needed to go, and we needed to rebuild... we did.

No it wasn't there fault it was Burke's and it was halarious how many people on this board believed you could build a contender around those two and praised Burke up until the very end.

 

[justafan22]

2 years ago today, the final roster vs the devils in game 82

Toronto Maple Leafs - New Jersey Devils - April 9th, 2016

Nylander, Bozak, Komarov, Gardiner, Rielly are the only members still on the active roster. (Sparks in the AHL) only 5 of 20 2 years later is nuts.